Friction shifting 5 months later.
11-13-18, 04:39 AM
#26
Full Member
1. Sachs-Huret shifter, KMC 7-speed chain, Suntour VX derailleur, Maillard 5-speed freewheel, Sugino chainwheel.
2. Huret shifters, KMC 7-speed chain, Huret front derailleur, Suntour GT rear derailleur, Suntour 5-speed frewheel, Nervar-solida chainrings.
3. Shimano shifters, Shimano 7-speed chain, Shimano uniglide something front derailleur, Shimano 600 rear derailleur, Shimano SIS frewheel, Nervar-Solida chainrings.
Project to test: Suntour power shifters, Shimano 7-speed chain, Shimano Tourney (70ies) or Sachs-Huret Rider rear Derailleur, Sachs Orbit rear hub (2x6), unknown italian chainwheel.
11-13-18, 07:16 AM
#27
Extraordinary Magnitude
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I ride a 21” bike- that has a pretty short head tube- with the saddle of my thumb on the top tube, I can barely reach the tip of the rear shift lever with the tip of my index finger. I can’t see having any sort of reasonable control of the lever beyond the greater action of *moving* it, not moving it with feel and control to reliably switch one gear at a time. I would be completely unable to reach the left shift lever with my right hand.
While I would say ‘to each their own” and do what’s comfortable for you- but I think you’ll find a better way to do it.
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11-13-18, 01:58 PM
#28
verktyg
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Friction Levers with Index RDs
"Getting back to friction shifting, the best of both worlds is using a rear derailleur designed for indexing with friction levers. Even better with retrofriction levers. My 1990 Bianchi Mondiale with Campy Dopler Retrtofriction levers and a Campy Mirage 9 Speed RD (pictured above). It shifts like it's indexed but smooth with no clicks, especially with a HyperGlide cassette. No more trimming to get the chain centered."
"The feature that allows rear derailleurs to index easily is the top pulley laterally floats side to side allowing the chain to self center on the sprocket: 1.5mm to 2.5mm is usually enough. I've modified upper pulleys on a lot of bikes to allow the lateral float. Even Campy NR rear derailleurs - no more 2 forward, 1 back trimming of the lever!"
verktyg
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
11-13-18, 02:34 PM
#29
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Are my posts too wordy or??? Did you see my post above? Maybe I need to change how I post messages???
"Getting back to friction shifting, the best of both worlds is using a rear derailleur designed for indexing with friction levers. Even better with retrofriction levers. My 1990 Bianchi Mondiale with Campy Dopler Retrtofriction levers and a Campy Mirage 9 Speed RD (pictured above). It shifts like it's indexed but smooth with no clicks, especially with a HyperGlide cassette. No more trimming to get the chain centered."
"The feature that allows rear derailleurs to index easily is the top pulley laterally floats side to side allowing the chain to self center on the sprocket: 1.5mm to 2.5mm is usually enough. I've modified upper pulleys on a lot of bikes to allow the lateral float. Even Campy NR rear derailleurs - no more 2 forward, 1 back trimming of the lever!"
verktyg
"Getting back to friction shifting, the best of both worlds is using a rear derailleur designed for indexing with friction levers. Even better with retrofriction levers. My 1990 Bianchi Mondiale with Campy Dopler Retrtofriction levers and a Campy Mirage 9 Speed RD (pictured above). It shifts like it's indexed but smooth with no clicks, especially with a HyperGlide cassette. No more trimming to get the chain centered."
"The feature that allows rear derailleurs to index easily is the top pulley laterally floats side to side allowing the chain to self center on the sprocket: 1.5mm to 2.5mm is usually enough. I've modified upper pulleys on a lot of bikes to allow the lateral float. Even Campy NR rear derailleurs - no more 2 forward, 1 back trimming of the lever!"
verktyg
my post was in response to your post. I thought it came in right below but it looks like I was a few down. I just didnt realize you could do such a thing. I had an LBS tell me once it was not possible but they may not have understood the set up I was really going for.
or they just wanted me to but a new shifter AND derailur haha
11-13-18, 04:21 PM
#30
Extraordinary Magnitude
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haha
my post was in response to your post. I thought it came in right below but it looks like I was a few down. I just didnt realize you could do such a thing. I had an LBS tell me once it was not possible but they may not have understood the set up I was really going for.
or they just wanted me to but a new shifter AND derailur haha
my post was in response to your post. I thought it came in right below but it looks like I was a few down. I just didnt realize you could do such a thing. I had an LBS tell me once it was not possible but they may not have understood the set up I was really going for.
or they just wanted me to but a new shifter AND derailur haha
Indexing is the shifter moving the cable a specified amount between clicks. That distance is designed to move a matching derailleur a specified distance. The derailleur stops where the clicks are. The pull of the shifter has to match the pull of the derailleur to move it the specified distance between cogs.
Friction shifting does not require the derailleur to match the shifter.
As Chas alluded to- by the late 80s Shimano's mid and upper end derailleurs were fantastic-
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
11-14-18, 03:11 PM
#31
Senior Member
Overhauling vintage bikes i almost always use a sis derailleur. Coupled with a new chain i can usually achieve a silky smooth shift transition once everything is dialed in. The only exception i have to this is a Peugeot i recently acquired with a simplex retrofriction set up. It is hands down the smoothest DT setup i have ever seen. The bike intuitively falls into the next gear.
11-14-18, 03:27 PM
#32
Banned
60 years later I'm still fine with friction lever shifting .. on the old derailleur bikes ..
11-14-18, 05:27 PM
#33
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I've read- and I haven't really come to a conclusion- that the hyperglide ramps are actually worse for friction shifting. As I recall, it's said the ramps assist or start moving the chain over before the derailleur has the pulley in position- where I can see where the "float" in the upper pulley would be beneficial there- but I can also see imprecision and chatter/clatter until you do move it to the right position- in other words you're not just fighting the cog- you're fighting the help and the cog (and the centeron pulley if you're using one)
11-15-18, 08:19 AM
#34
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I like friction and index shifting equally, if the levers are on the handlebars - brifter, barend, Retroshift/Gevenalle, etc.
If the levers are on the downtube, I prefer index shifting. It is that little bit faster and requires much less fine control, which makes a difference when you can only take your hand off the bars for a second.
That said, it's not a big preference.
If the levers are on the downtube, I prefer index shifting. It is that little bit faster and requires much less fine control, which makes a difference when you can only take your hand off the bars for a second.
That said, it's not a big preference.
