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Loss of Civility

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Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Loss of Civility

Old 08-28-19, 04:17 PM
  #51  
MyTi
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Ya most noncyclists I know hate cyclists. Most cyclists donít follow stop sign or stop light rules. Many are arrogant and take up the whole lane when they should try to be more on the right most side of the road to avoid impeding auto traffic.
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Old 08-28-19, 04:35 PM
  #52  
cthenn
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Ya most noncyclists I know hate cyclists. Most cyclists donít follow stop sign or stop light rules. Many are arrogant and take up the whole lane when they should try to be more on the right most side of the road to avoid impeding auto traffic.
I agree, generally, "we" are dicks. But there is still an overwhelming irrational hatred of cyclists from most motorists.
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Old 08-28-19, 05:17 PM
  #53  
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I had a nice experience this afternoon. Went for a ride on a bike that I hadn't used for Many years. Was several miles out of town when the back tire developed a bubble and shortly after blew. I made the call of shame, and while waiting in a wide spot of the road, a woman passed me, turned around and asked if I was OK. That greatly improved my outlook on humanity.
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Old 08-28-19, 06:04 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I agree, generally, "we" are dicks.
Only if you accept that prioritising cars over everything else is fine, and that civil disobedience shouldn't be a thing.
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Old 08-28-19, 06:16 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I agree, generally, "we" are dicks. But there is still an overwhelming irrational hatred of cyclists from most motorists.
Why are bus drivers allowed to run red lights with impunity? It happens as a matter of course in every city I've ever lived in.
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Old 08-28-19, 07:05 PM
  #56  
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I am not a dick.

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Old 08-28-19, 07:21 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by viffer View Post
I have a life, canít be checking this site constantly for replies. Besides I think my original post was designed to spark discussion and thought which I think I did, not necessarily to generate direct replies to me.
Thanks for responding. Personally, trying to spark discussion in this way and disappearing is bad form. People had questions about ambiguities in your post. But if you wanted to spark discussion about civility, there are better ways to frame the question.
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Old 08-28-19, 07:27 PM
  #58  
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Someone asked why cyclists should be held to a higher standard than gasaholics?

In Metro Atlanta it is anarchy... selfish want trumps the all too rare random acts of kindness.... They are there, make my day... and not the average or mean....

This morning, MUP crossing road, signal activated and red, flashed my headlight one way to make sure traffic was stopping... other way in response, and two seconds down an uphill grade, gashole guns the engine and hits the brights to let me know that RED don't mean he's about to stop....

Cyclists blowing lights got nothing on the casual contempt of drivers, here.... Might as well remove the lights, soon, and save on infrastructure repair costs.... Today's contempt included driving on sidewalks... fortunately not the one I was on THIS time.... Sitting over the stop bar is the national passtime and elf you for reminding me that I am illegally in your way....

Police are overworked, politicized into revenue collectors, and all part of the car culture, lethal weapon, NCIS (et, al., *** absurdam) even IF they understand, care, or have a moment to access their humanity.... In my area, they are so much a problem, that I must assume no good will come of any interaction, much less appeal for help....

Yet I still argue, with my best friend, that we are not doomed....
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Old 08-28-19, 07:39 PM
  #59  
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Old 08-28-19, 08:44 PM
  #60  
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Sunday I encountered 4 different people cutting grass by the roadside on riding mowers. All four of them turned away from the road and cut the engine as I approached. Near the end of the ride, I came around a sharp corner and a car that had just passed me was stopped in the road. I couldn't imagine why and no one was coming the other way, so I went around him. Only after I cleared the front of his car did I see the large water moccasin in front of his car. "I didn't want you to hit the snake!" he called out. I run into a clown once in a while, but mostly people are pretty good.
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Old 08-28-19, 10:04 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by jbchybridrider View Post
There use to be cyclist hate FB groups in Australia and the comments people made were sickening, cyclists should be murdered sort of thing as a sport. But haven't seen one for awhile so may have been shut down now. There is a strong culture of cyclist vs motorist though and I occasionally get people ignore the 1 metre distance passing rule here almost clipping my bars at high speed "very deliberately" sometimes just abuse.

Occasionally there are hit and run incidents killing the cyclist and the police hunting them down finding they have a history as cycling haters. When I see them on the TV nightly news in police custody I wounder what there thinking now, was it all worth it.
You can tell which "cagers" hate cyclists. They are the ones that pass -as closely as possible- by you even though you're already on the shoulder and there's two (or more), wide open lanes. Thank God for modern technology and the Garmin Varia radar.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:34 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Ya most noncyclists I know hate cyclists. Most cyclists donít follow stop sign or stop light rules. Many are arrogant and take up the whole lane when they should try to be more on the right most side of the road to avoid impeding auto traffic.
Here in Louisville it's perfectly legal to take the entire lane. Which I will do depending on what kinda road it is.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:45 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by berner View Post
There is a theory going around that intelligent life on Earth is becoming extinct.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:55 AM
  #64  
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I've had interesting issues with cars and people. When I was younger I was crossing a major street, got halfway across and woke up at a bus stop. One of the people said I just fell over in the middle of the street. I guess they dragged me to the sidewalk. I woke up right before an ambulence arrived.

There was an instance about 2008 I was standing, coasting down a hill, somehow fell off the bike and the crank cut in to my thigh. A dude in a caddy stopped and asked if I was okay and before I could begin to exhale the air to make a sound, he drove away.

Me and a buddy were riding once and a- we'll call him redneck cut us off and brake checked us. As he laughed, my friend chucked his huffy through the windshield and we rode off.

Then my contempt for cagers got the best of me once. I had my son and we did some shopping, I didn't have a kid seat, so we were walking to catch the bus. I was struggling to cross the street with him, bags and a bike. Somebody blew at me and I cussed them out saying I was trying to move fast as possible. They told me they were signaling another car not to move so we wouldn't get hit. I felt like a piece of **** and couldn't appologize enough.
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Old 08-29-19, 09:09 AM
  #65  
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I experienced a similar situation as the OP yesterday. The guy was coming from behind, honking all the way, so he obviously saw me. I knew something fishy was going on so i just swerved to the very corner of the road and this idiot almost "licked" my left arm at high speed. If i wasn't right near the end of the road (almost falling to the banquet i should say), i could probably be in a hospital or a grave right now. The guy actually steered left and got back into his own lane after he passed me by. So it was a deliberate attempt on my life. He probably though he gave me a good scare.

If you are living in civilized European country where laws are practiced and offenders are punished, you should consider yourselves lucky. "The end of civility" doesn't sound so scary to me. I wish that was our only problem here. No civility is something that you can deal with. No civility does not kill you. It could maybe ruin your day at most. But when you have no legality, people start to act upon their primal instincts. Every time I finish a ride, I feel like I pulled the lever of a slot machine and hit the jackpot, "each and every time". That is how lucky i consider myself on the road.
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Old 08-29-19, 06:39 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post

Isn't IQ "normalized" to the population being compared? Like by mathematical definition the MEAN has to be 100.

So whatever kind of farkdooshery this is, it is clearly not based in any mathematical reality.
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Old 08-29-19, 06:57 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
I experienced a similar situation as the OP yesterday. The guy was coming from behind, honking all the way, so he obviously saw me. I knew something fishy was going on so i just swerved to the very corner of the road and this idiot almost "licked" my left arm at high speed. If i wasn't right near the end of the road (almost falling to the banquet i should say), i could probably be in a hospital or a grave right now. The guy actually steered left and got back into his own lane after he passed me by. So it was a deliberate attempt on my life. He probably though he gave me a good scare.

If you are living in civilized European country where laws are practiced and offenders are punished, you should consider yourselves lucky. "The end of civility" doesn't sound so scary to me. I wish that was our only problem here. No civility is something that you can deal with. No civility does not kill you. It could maybe ruin your day at most. But when you have no legality, people start to act upon their primal instincts. Every time I finish a ride, I feel like I pulled the lever of a slot machine and hit the jackpot, "each and every time". That is how lucky i consider myself on the road.
The only difference between your situation and the OPís situation is that yours actually happened as described
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Old 08-29-19, 07:07 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
Isn't IQ "normalized" to the population being compared? Like by mathematical definition the MEAN has to be 100.
That's right.

One major implications of this trend is that an average individual alive today would have an IQ of 130 by the standards of 1910, making them more intelligent than 98% of the population at that time. Equivalently, an individual alive in 1910 would have an IQ of 70 by todayís standards, a score that would be low enough to be considered intellectually disabled in the modern world.


https://ourworldindata.org/intelligence
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Old 08-30-19, 03:36 AM
  #69  
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When I have a flat or appear to have s bike problem I almost always have someone in a car and on bike offer help.

That said, in the last year Iíve had more people literally cuss me out than in the previous 6 years combined. Very often theyíre turning or passing me going the other way. I have zero impact in their commute. Theyíre just angry.

Iíve given up cussing back after an out of town(Smokey mountains) incident that invoked the police, who he called. He lied and told the officer I assaulted him. Luckily a lady saw the incident and waited to tell the cops.

If the man wasnít so old heíd have had a dentist trip. Minimally. Iím reformed after thinking of the consequences and now I wave happily like i know them.

The few that Iíve seen the reaction from appear even more angry. And Iím not exaggerating this happens 3 times a month easy. And I ride every day.
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Old 08-30-19, 08:35 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Why are bus drivers allowed to run red lights with impunity? It happens as a matter of course in every city I've ever lived in.
Never said they weren't. I'm just relating to what I see every day when I ride or drive. Most cyclists do not obey all traffic rules, but so do motorists, bus drivers, etc. We're all dicks on the road, everyone! Just a big ol' pack of dicks out there, being inconsiderate and stupid!
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Old 08-30-19, 08:50 AM
  #71  
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Yeah, but somehow the driver scofflawism is mostly forgiven and ignored.

On a hiking forum, some last just posted a question to one of my fellow hikers who's also a cyclist, asking why she should have to over the 3 foot law when cyclists break other laws. 🤯
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Old 08-30-19, 09:03 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post

One major implications of this trend is that an average individual alive today would have an IQ of 130 by the standards of 1910, making them more intelligent than 98% of the population at that time. Equivalently, an individual alive in 1910 would have an IQ of 70 by today’s standards, a score that would be low enough to be considered intellectually disabled in the modern world.

https://ourworldindata.org/intelligence
Then they aren't measuring intelligence, they're measuring skills and knowledge and confusing it with intelligence. To tell whether they are doing so through ignorance, or malice, or personal gain... well I would have to go read a bunch of their crap that I just don't care about, so I can't really have an opinion on that.

If people were two standard deviations more intelligent than they were 100 years ago, then AVERAGE (50% percentile) today would be 97% percentile back then... and we wouldn't have fake news on facebook and twitter because people would have the damn sense to know better.
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Old 08-30-19, 09:10 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
If people were two standard deviations more intelligent than they were 100 years ago, then AVERAGE (50% percentile) today would be 97% percentile back then...
Which is what they said. Well, they said 98 percentile.
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Old 08-30-19, 02:39 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
I experienced a similar situation as the OP yesterday. The guy was coming from behind, honking all the way, so he obviously saw me. I knew something fishy was going on so i just swerved to the very corner of the road and this idiot almost "licked" my left arm at high speed. If i wasn't right near the end of the road (almost falling to the banquet i should say), i could probably be in a hospital or a grave right now. The guy actually steered left and got back into his own lane after he passed me by. So it was a deliberate attempt on my life. He probably though he gave me a good scare.

If you are living in civilized European country where laws are practiced and offenders are punished, you should consider yourselves lucky. "The end of civility" doesn't sound so scary to me. I wish that was our only problem here. No civility is something that you can deal with. No civility does not kill you. It could maybe ruin your day at most. But when you have no legality, people start to act upon their primal instincts. Every time I finish a ride, I feel like I pulled the lever of a slot machine and hit the jackpot, "each and every time". That is how lucky i consider myself on the road.
I used to carry my ulock on my handlebars for stuff like that. Used to call them the Messengers Mace.
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Old 08-31-19, 04:58 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Greatestalltime View Post
If the man wasnít so old heíd have had a dentist trip. Minimally. Iím reformed after thinking of the consequences and now I wave happily like i know them.
The concept of what is intelligence is an interesting question. For example, how to measure the math or music prodigy or the kid doing calculus at 8 y.o. and who graduates college at 12. My own take is that intelligence is in part used to anticipate consequences of a situation that has not yet occurred. This is often called wisdom.
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