Sharpshin

On my '89 Schwinn Voyageur.



Might seem like a foolish question. I have a rear mounted kickstand on my other bike and really like it. My concern with the Schwinn is that the long, slender chainstays on this bike that flex to soak up vibration so well might be stressed if they were bolted solidly to each other on one side as they would be with this kind of kickstand installed. Frame already has about 12,000 miles on it, I'd like to get that again without anything cracking.

Whats the verdict, am I just being paranoid?

Back in '89 when they built the frame they apparently weren't thinking kickstand, there's very little room between the chainstays at the bottom bracket, I've already tried a conventional kickstand as well as the Plescher Swiss military kickstand with its double legs, wouldn't fit at all.

mtbikerinpa

I use a rear mount clamp on for most of my bikes and like them. I guess the issue is more a matter of how often do you load the front rack? If you park it with a load I would rather have a centered unit such as a Greenfield. If you only load heavy on the rear rack then a rear mount would be fine.

Andrew R Stewart 

I wouldn't be concerned about "that the long, slender chainstays on this bike that flex to soak up vibration so well might be stressed if they were bolted solidly to each other on one side as they would be with this kind of kickstand installed". Poppy cock is my opinion. Andy

Trakhak

Agree. There's no significant flexing going on in those stays except sideways.

Andrew R Stewart 

I would go further and suggest that the kickstand's clamp surfaces act as hinge points and allow for minor stay flexing far more then many think. This is the big reason that clamping bolts loosen with use, things wiggle WRT each other ever so slightly initially and that grows as the cycles add up. The real problem with kickstands (besides the balance point WRT the bikes center of mass) is that kickstand swing and have a lot of rotational inertia that frequently contributes to loose fit. Andy

jefnvk

Yes

Tourist in MSN

I assume it is steel and I assume you are talking about one of the Greenfield ones that clamp on to the stays a few inches from the left rear dropout.

I have such a kickstand on most of my steel bikes and I see no reason why not on yours. The Greenfield comes with a copious amount of flexible plastic to wrap around the stays. Thus, it loosens up over time as that plastic deforms. I use loctite on my Greenfield screws and when new I keep checking the screws about every month or so to see if they need a bit of tightening.

Sharpshin

Andrew R Stewart 

Much or the flex we talk about in frames is actually from the fork, which is the sole structure that is connected at only one end and is also not triangulated. The rear frame is actually a very stiff structure what with it's 3 dimensional shape (as opposed to a 2 dimensional shape of the front/main frame). People forget that the rear axle is a stressed frame member (and why through axles are so favored for disk brakes and their minimal pad clearances).

I get a kick out of all the claims of seat stay designs that soften the road vibrations. For the amount of vibration reduction the marketing buzz (bad pun) is huge. Andy

Sharpshin

fietsbob

With a click stand , and you don't have to add any kickstand..

with a load bring a heavy rubber band or something to lock the front wheel stopped

so it wont pull the bike over.. such a brake lever pulling holder-on-er
is included with the clickstand..

Koga for their touring bikes has a 2nd kickstand on left side of front low rider..
to do similar , front wont roll..


Pletscher kicktands, such as F8 offer a alternate center stand clamp

as well as Surly's kit to better support a center stand..

in rear stands their multi zoom* is light, adjustable in length
so you can make it longer , (hard to do that sizing with a hacksaw)
and the rear stay corner spanning clamp is integrated..

(Greenfield's is an adapter, to use their center stand on the rear location)

* I have the center stand version of the zoom..
bike has a mounting plate/chainstay brace..



....

Tourist in MSN

Our opinions are based on our experiences, and I think it more important to have a stand for touring. If you stop and want to get something out of a pannier or racktop bag or something, it can be a hassle to have to lay down the bike. But the grocery store and gym, etc., have racks. If they did not have a rack that I can lock the bike to, I do not go there. But sometime for a quick run into a convenience store, I will settle for someplace I can lean a bike against a wall.

For my Titanium touring bike where I would be afraid of frame damage if I tried to mount a stand to it, I use a cut down tent pole as a substitute for a Clickstand, but that is beyond the topic of this thread.

cyccommute 

Sharpshin

Because I bought two kickstands of different styles and tried to put them on?

Wasn't just the limited space, on both bikes cables routed along the chainstays or seat tubes were a problem.

Around town, daily commuter/car substitute? I first installed a kickstand so I could park it where it could be seen at the gym in the predawn dark without leaning it against their pristine walls, now I'm wondering how I ever lived without it. Helping someone with a flat or repair on a group ride? Flip the kickstand down and stop right there, easy to get at the panniers. Wanna park at the grocery store where security is? Same thing. Need to park it in your classroom all day right in front of the teacher's (me) desk? There it is.

My 26" Specialized set up has proven stable in the kickstand with about 30lbs in the rear panniers. Loaded touring? If it isn't stable I'll just not use it, but unloaded it would let me park my bike right by where I'm sleeping if I wanted instead of laying it flat on the ground.

cyccommute 

You still aren't being clear as to what the problem with the fit is. If you are saying that the chain stays are too close together for the bolt of the kickstand to go between them, there is something wrong with the frame. I have seen some bikes that have too little room from the bottom bracket to the wheel for a kickstand but the Schwinn Voyager doesn't fall into that category. It's a long chain stay bike so it has loads of fore and aft room for a kickstand. This blog has pictures of a 1990 Voyageur bottom bracket/seatstay and it shows ample room for a kickstand bolt and bracket. The 1990 version isn't much different from the 1989 version.

Both bikes? I thought we were talking about one bike. Most bikes have cables routed either over the chain stay as your Voyageur does or under the chainstays like the HardRock. Neither routing interferes with mounting a kickstand. Just make sure you don't clamp the cable under the kickstand mounting hardware.

Whatever floats your boat. I can do all of that without a kickstand and not take up as much room nor risk the bike falling over.

Wait, I thought you had issues with mounting a kickstand on the Specialized? Cable run and all that. Since it has a kickstand, the cable routing isn't an issue nor would it for the Voyageur with cables routed on the other side of the chain stay.

Sharpshin

Sorry, I had a comparative frame geometry thread posted at the same time involving my '89 Voyageur and '95 HardRock.

OK, sequence of events:
1) I buy a cheapo $7 Walmart center stand and put it on the Voyageur to test the concept.
2) I buy a $64 Plescher Swiss Army center stand with the dual legs, it won't fit the Voyageur.
3) Fair enough, I'll just put the Plescher on the '95 HardRock and put the rear Greenfield kick stand on it on the Voyageur.
4) Plescher won't fit the HardRock either.

I ain't a "return it opened" kinda guy, someone with a bicycle at some unspecified point in the future is gonna get a free or nearly so Plescher kickstand.


I have the '89 Voyageur.

Pretty tight on mine betweend the bottom bracket and that little cross bar on mine, I'm 5'6', with a relatively small frame, small framed bike, 700c wheels.

I tried the two center stands on the Voyageur, a $7 WalMart Special (just to test the concept) and the $65 Plescher Swiss Army double stand. The top plate of both was the problem, contacting or nearly so the cable as it came off that "u" shaped trough attached to the side of the bottom bracket, an effect especially pronounced with the beefy Plescher top mount.


The top plate of the Plescher Sidestand distorted the cables of both bikes.

Fore and aft placement of the sidestand mounting plates adjacent to the bottom bracket on both bikes was further limited by the forward projecting mounting bolt of the rear fender. This mattered on the Hard Rock because the top plate of the Plescher stand contacted the front deraileur cable coming up from under the bottom bracket and I was unable to slide it back enough on account of the fender mounting nut and bolt. I suppose the cheapo Walmart stand would fit the Hardrock easily enough, or one of a similar design, but this bike already had a rear sidestand.

Also, the mounting bolt on the Plescher goes into a blind-ended threaded socket, the bolt supplied was too long to close sufficiently to clamp on the chainstays of either bike (and the shorter, similarly-threaded one on the Walmart special too short). So I never got to actually fully attached this stand to either bike.


Long story short, the LBS had a Bontrager rear kickstand for $25, lighter than the Greenfield unit, I put it on the Voyageur. Hope that clears it up.

fietsbob

30 years ago I snagged a Made in Japan Bridgestone rear mounted kickstand
it had a feature that it locked, in the down position..

have not seen that on others, since..

Papa Tom

I'm a "visual" person, so without pics, I'm having some trouble understanding exactly what the problem is with the kickstand hardware interfering with the cable.

However, if it's what I THINK it is (you are trying to use a standard rectangular mounting plate on the kickstand and it's clamping down on the cable) I'd suggest you look for one of the specialized (not the brand) mounting plates that are made specifically for this problem. I found one going through a box of old stuff in a local bike shop. It's rectangular, but it's got a cut-out that's designed to keep it from impinging on the cable. Mine cost me $1 and enabled me to install a Sunlite Pro double kickstand that I absolutely love. It holds the bike completely solid when it's fully loaded and it has never failed me.

cyccommute 

I know you have the 89 Voyageur. The 1990 version isn't any different. The pictures of the 1990 show how much room there is between the chain stay bridge and bottom bracket. There is miles of distance there.

The frame size won't make a difference. Most all manufacturers use the same chain stay length on bikes throughout the size ranges. They don't usually shorten the chain stays. There are exceptions but they are few and I can say with a fair amount of confidence that is the case with the Schwinn Voyageur.


A miss is as good as a mile. Even if the cable contacts the upper part of the bracket it won't make a difference. The cable will simply slide over the bracket. It's a nonissue. If it bothers you too much, grind off a little aluminum and call it good.


If your fender mounting bolt is protruding past the nut, it serves no purpose. Use a shorter mounting bolt for the fender or use a zip tie to hold the lower part of the fender in place. The zip tie doesn't rust and is easier to use.

But another bolt. Bolts are cheap. You spent $65 on the kickstand and won't use it because of a couple of surmountable problems. A new bolt will cost you a dollar. Seems like a better course of action then wasting a $65 kickstand.

It only leaves one wondering what all the kerfufflage was about.

jefnvk

Not a flame war, but two tours with a rear mount Greenfield and one with no kickstand, and I will take the added options a kickstand offers any day. I haven't noticed any significant difference in the number of topple overs while leaning or on a kickstand.

Dibs

I put one of those on the wife's road bike. It works well enough I tried to put one on my Mazama for touring, unfortunately it didn't clear the disc brakes.

Sharpshin

Interesting.

Knew about the bolt, know the place that stocks 'em. Grinding down the top plate ~4 - 5mm to clear the cable was more than I wanted to do, wouldn't occur to me actually.

"All that is not given is lost." and ...ain't the most money I've ever spent foolishly, I can trade it off at a Frankenbike event or something, or give it to a friend.

Things happen <"shrug">

fietsbob

A little Filing of the aluminum, can create an un obstructed cable passage

this is the F8 alternate pieces described above
You can also use the shorter hex socket cap machine screw ,
those are for mounting plate equipped frames..
some spacer washers, another way to cope
with too long a bolt..
buying a nut to fit the bolt, and screwing it on,
before you hacksaw off excess length
Is a common mechanic's practice, restores the thread ,
pushing the burrs created in the cut off, aside..

Tourist in MSN

I did have one problem with the Greenfield kickstand. The little rubber foot is not necessary on pavement but it helps a lot on soil to keep the stand from sinking in. And after a while the stand will push clear through the rubber foot. And once that happens, the stand will sink into soil quite easily. I started to glue (with Shoe Goo) a fender washer on the outside of the rubber foot to keep the stand from pushing through it, but the fender washer occasionally falls off, needing replacement.

First photo is not a rear Greenfield, but it does show the kickstand that punched through the rubber foot from repeated use on soil.



The fender washer eventually came unglued from the rubber foot.

Papa Tom

I slip a quarter (25 cent coin) into the inside of the rubber foot to keep the metal post from tearing through. This has worked very well for me.

thumpism 

In my experience the rear axle kickstand works on everything but a bike with front and rear panniers. Seems like the extra weight on the front will cause the bike to tip if the bars are turned to either the right or the left when parked. It'll be hard to find a parked position for the bike where it's not likely to go over.

If you load that bike up fully I'd recommend a double-legged kickstand. Heavy but stable. You might still need a bungee frame-to-front-wheel. The double will work with either the four panniers or with a B.O.B. trailer on the back.