srode1

Under $3000 and 2 year warranty - Now with GRX 1X

https://bikerumor.com/2020/03/04/wal...-for-under-3k/

biketampa

I haven’t read any reviews of their bikes yet but looks like a decent build.

Cpn_Dunsel

Seems to be competitively priced along their various group set offerings but there is something about buying a refined piece of machinery from such a big box retailer (with all the other associated issues that Wal-Mart brings to the table) -- that would keep me from even spending too much time looking here, let alone buying.

If they (Wal-Mart) do to the bike industry what they have done to the grocery industry then we going in the wrong direction and I ain't being complicit with it.

dwmckee

They just want to crush all of our small neighborhood bike shops and add to their corporate coffers. Same formula they have been using since the 80's. Amazon is even worse for what they are doing to local retail businesses. Remember that when you are looking for someone to fix your bike or install that crank you bought on line and find out there are no more local shops there to help.

mstateglfr 

Spoken like a true small business owner.
Not saying you are wrong, but since what you speak of directly affects your livelihood, excuse people if they take it with a grain of salt.

Like most issues, it's hardly as extreme as either end of the argument claims.

The counter to your complaints would be that Walmart is doing it's best to prioritize what their patrons want, which are cost driven product and service models. In a time when purchasing power for the middle and working classes continues to shrink, Walmart is helping stretch their dollars further.

Not saying I believe that last paragraph, but it certainly is accurate in application based on decades of analysis.

There will always be specialty shops since there will always be(due to there always having been) consumer interest in more than just the lowest cost products.
Men's suits, high end gyms, luxury car dealers, bike shops, etc.
Online and big box retail may cause some shops to close, but if consumers find value in bike shops then there will continue to be bike shops.

Canker

and beside you can't walk into a Walmart and buy one of these nor can you get your bike fixed there so I don't see what the problem is. It is just another online only bike brand that happens to be owned the the Waltons.

dsaul

It's not a Walmart bike any more than Rapha is Walmart clothing. Just because the Walton family owns it, doesn't make it a Walmart product.

srode1

Well, unlike Ralpha, it appears you will be able to buy it from Walmart.....
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Viathon-G...54cm/286856751

biketampa

direct to consumer bikes has obviously been going on long before walmart now getting in the game. Bike shops are already having to figure out how to adapt to a new business model. I don't think an additional direct to consumer business changes that one way or another.

Rides4Beer

They're not priced competitively enough to be associated with the Wal-Mart stigma (I know they're trying to market it as a mid-high end direct to consumer brand, but that ship has sailed, everyone knows them as "Wal-Mart bikes"). Not to mention that the black/white colorway is about as boring as you can get. I got my Giants cheaper from my LBS, both with fantastic paint, and great support.

I'm not against online shopping, or direct to consumer brands, I think they're great, but they missed the mark with this one. I think we'll see the prices continue to drop, as they already have been since their release, until they find the point that the market is willing to accept for a boring Wal-Mart bike (even if they do have good components). I have a feeling there's a large warehouse full of these bikes just collecting dust.

msu2001la

Wow, this bike looks like a great value. Solid specs.
Pricing Viathon to be cost competitive with offerings from Bikes Direct seems to make sense to me.

I'm curious if people feel there a similar stigma or concern about Canyon bikes which also sell direct to consumers and aren't sold at local bikes shops? Or is it just that Viathon is a "big box" brand owned by Wal-Mart, whereas Canyon is Euro and only does bikes?
My perception has always been that Canyon is viewed as an acceptable/cool brand in my area, but they have the same business model in terms of impacts on local shops.

Cpn_Dunsel

Not true.

The majority of specialty shoppes and business have been crushed. Local hardware, watches, TV repair, small pharmacy, etc ... all gone due to Big Box corps.

Seems most people still very ignorant to how the Wal-Mart business model actually works.

Sad.

Cpn_Dunsel

It's not about the direct to consumer dynamic.

It's about large corps that control a market place by their over whelming buying power and the use of vertical integration to snuff out all smaller competition. Wal-Mart is able to dictate to its suppliers in ways a small business can not ever do.

This is cancerous. Literally. they destroy small communities the same way cancer destroys living organisms; by assimilating smaller companies and forcing them to change their business model to serve the needs of the invading virus.

msu2001la

I don't disagree with any of this. My family owned a local drug store since the 1930's. My grandfather, father and uncle were all pharmacists. I saw first hand the impact that Wal-Mart and other national corporations had on that industry during the 1990's.

In the context of this conversation, I guess I'm not sure why Canyon is viewed any differently than Viathon/Walmart. (and maybe it isn't?)
Canyon is an international company directly taking away sales from the local shop down the street. Wal-mart may be worse in terms of aggressive strategies and overall impact to local businesses in general, but Canyon seems to be competing directly with what's left of the local bike shop market, which has generally shifted to higher end bikes, since it's tough for them to compete with the big box stores on cheap bikes.

mstateglfr 

I view Canyon as a (more)legitimate brand for a few reasons- time in the marketplace, investment in sponsorship, and wide ranging lineup. I am not saying that all 3 must exist for me to view a brand as legitimate, but probably 2 need to exist, and right now 0 exist(as far as I know, which admittedly isnt much).

I look at the Viathon bike(s) and see an uninspiring matte black generic carbon bike(in road, mtb, and gravel). Perhaps that is all it needs to be to be great because the designs are incredible, but even still- its meh to me.
And I dont consider Viathon to be a Walmart brand in the traditional sense. Its not like Viathon is next to Ol Roy and Equate in the stores.

As for Canyon, they have their own issues that have turned thousands away(based on reading internet threads and social media. The biggest has been the lack of inventory- its kinda tough to buy something that doesnt exist for months on end and doesnt have a stated in stock date. The geometry for some of their bikes is...curious, which has turned away a lot. And their design choices such as toothpaste welds and the hover bar on their various gravel offerings has been divisive.
They were going to shake up the industry once they hit the US shores, but its been more of a trickle than a flood and it seems to largely be of their own doing.

mstateglfr 

I am very much aware of how the WalMart business model works.
- I work for the largest company in my industry so I understand the challenges to compete on scale.
- My company works for Walmart and its competitors so I am continually updated on changes in their business practices from an inventory and supply chain perspective.
- I had to study this stuff for years in college and have continued to do so out of college since it is both interesting and affects me as a consumer(consolidation of retail, change in buying habits, value of dollar, etc).


In general, villifying a corporation for being the best at providing what customers want is an insane thing. "How dare you be successful and continue to provide value!" Thats hilarious, actually.

I am well aware of the stories where local grocers and other shops in small towns shut down after a Walmart comes in. That happens because CONSUMERS CHOOSE to spend their money elsewhere.

To address your specifics-
- Smaller hardware stores still exist all across the country, even though Walmart, Home Depot, etc are in the same markets. I shop at True Value and Ace a lot when I need something specific and/or want to get in and out quickly. But if I want to buy a lot of stuff- there is little chance I am going to those places due to price and selection. The small stores often dont have the selection I want and/or the prices I want. See that- CONSUMERS CHOOSE. I choose to shop at the larger stores since I will save money and have more choice. It isnt Home Depot's fault that I shop at their store due to more selection and lower prices.
Whats funny is that I doubt employees at the smaller stores are making more than those at the big box retailers. Both have part time teens, full time 'managers', and part time retired employees.

- watches are still something that are sold at shops, but its absurd to claim big box retail killed watch shops. Jewelry stores still sell watches and there are still watch shops. If watch shops have closed, blame Apple/Fitbit, blame cell phones, and blame changing CONSUMER CHOICE. Shake your fist at technology and changing consumer preferences here. It isnt because of Walmart selling cheap watches that watch shops have closed.

- TV repair stores still exist, though for sure in smaller amounts than in decades past. Its because TVs by and large arent worth repairing. When the repair gets close to or exceeds the cost of a new unit, most consumers just buy the new unit. Technology in TVs has continued to push costs down. So once again, blame technology and CONSUMER CHOICE.

-small pharmacies still exist, despite your claim. They are all over my metro, alongside Target, Walgreens, Walmart, etc. Some consumers find value in them- they like the more personal relationship or whatever, so there are still small pharmacies. Others want extended hours, and that is where Walgreens etc is beneficial. CONSUMER CHOICE is yet again the issue here.


If a household has $1000 to buy everything they need each month and shopping at the big box stores allows them to come in/under budget, then they will do so, even if they want a healthy small local business marketplace.
And those who have disposable income as well as preferences in different consumer markets will continue to support those markets since big box retail doesnt typically carry high end product or service. These consumers will continue to frequent men's clothing shops for suits instead of buying off the rack from Target. These consumers will continue to buy expensive watches from jewelers and watch shops instead of wearing a fitbit or buying a timex from Walmart. These consumers will continue to buy from an audio/video store instead of Best Buy for the 1on1 service and after sale support.


This isnt as simple as 'blame walmart!'. There are tons of big box retailers and thats because there is a ton of demand due to CONSUMER CHOICE.
If smaller businesses sold goods for less and stocked more product variety, then consumers would frequent them more. Thats obviously not a simple solution because they would do that if they could. They also wouldnt be a small business if they had the choice. They would be a larger business.

Cpn_Dunsel

^^^ Your position is spurious, silly and just plain ignorant.

Wal-Mart does not do things for the good of their customers. You claim to understand but you do not, as evidenced by your own words.

You are an apologist and as such I have nothing more to say to you nor will read your 'pearls of wisdom' as you are part of the problem and not any part of a viable solution.,

mstateglfr 

Walmart does things for the good of Walmart- its a for profit company. I recognize that. What is good for Walmart is to sell goods for less than competitors, which is what its customers want.

This conversation has been hilarious to me because I dont shop at Walmart...basically ever. I cant remember the last time I purchased something from Walmart.
Its comical that me not declaring Walmart to be the Debil equates me to an apologist since I dont even like Walmart as a whole.
I simply recognize why and how, from a consumer perspective, Walmart has grown so large and is so beneficial. Again, that is from a consumer's perspective, which may/will be different from a vendor's perspective or a competitor's perspective.

In order to stay consistent, I hope you dont shop at Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Kohls, any department store, Best Buy, Ikea, Costco, Barnes & Noble, Cabelas, PetSmart, Staples, Autozone, Bass Pro, Dress Barn, JCP, Kroger(or its brands), Safeway, Walgreens, SuperValu(or its brands), etc etc, etc. Oh, add Ace Hardware and True Value to that, even though I cited them as small hardware stores earlier since they arent independent hardware stores. What idyllic town do you live in where there is a small independent pet shop, a small independent hardware store, a small independent book store, a small independent pharmacy, etc etc?
Seriously- where do you even get your groceries, a food cooperative?

Large retail is everywhere and picking one company out to villify when a dozen others would just step right in and fill the void is absurd. Its misdirected blame.

Consumers are who drives buying decisions. Consumers are who 'kill' those small shops you mention. That isnt me being an apologist, its me recognizing how our purchasing decisions affect businesses.

dwmckee

I think an important point is being missed here and that is that as we learned from Walmart in the 80's, Consumers thought it was great to great to get a $40 VCR at a big box store but did not have the foresight to realize that all of the profits from big box go back to corporations and shareholders far away. But when they spend a little more with a local retailer the money stayed in the community and came around to benefit them a lot more in a lot of different ways, more good local jobs for theri kids, more people stay in the town and keep their home values higher, A more prosperous town meant it was easier to attract god teachers to their school district to educate their children. More local sharing of wealth and wealth retention in their community benefitted them indirectly smetimes but far, far more than that small savings on a VCR.

Tens of thousands of smaller communities are in depression as their local economic wealth wwas bled off to support far away corporations because of that $30 bucks they saved in a short-term VCR pirchase, In aggergate with millions of other purchases at big-box stores they undermined the very communities they loved.

Do not think for a second that a there are not a couple thousand local bike shops that close doors permanently each year. And thousands of local (not big chain) jewelry stores close every year. And a true local hardware store (not chain franchise Ace or Do it Best) is truly as rare as hen's teeth these days. Or that even a local non-chain neighborhood grocery store is nearly impossible to find.

Corporations certainly have the right to make money, but consumers need to think about the impact of their purchase "savings" that in reality have a much bigger cost to them in many many other ways.

dwmckee

Please understand that while I do own a very large and thankfully prosperous bike shop, I am speaking as a member of the community where our shop is, not as a shop owner. We are located in a smaller town with 2/3 of the business district decimated over 30 years by a Walmart, a Home Depot and a Mall of chain stiores hearby. The closed stores near us include a very good butcher shop, bakety, several clothing stores, two shoe stores, a hardware store, several jewelers, a dry cleaner, several restaurants, a local lumber yard, a theater, and other businesses once owned and operated by people I know. As a member of a once very prosperous community we have seen much of the community wealth bled off to the big chain stores and seen our kids move out, our home prices decline and our schools struggle to attract teachers to work in a now depressed school district.

Ouer shop hires several local kids every summer to help out and we pay wages about $2 - $3 more than the Burger King two miles away. These are kids of parents that buy bikes at our shop. We endorse local sports teams, and hold free repair and safety clinics in the neighborhood.

It matters how and where you choose to spend your money, and do not be so naive as to think that when you save a couple of bucks on a pair of tennis shoes from Amazon that it may not cost you far more in other ways you do not rezlize.

Sapperc

How about getting back to the actual topic of this thread.

Some things to consider. Viathon doesn’t make anything. It is a brand only. Bikes were designed under contract by a firm in Canada. Frames are built under contract in Asia. Bikes are partially assembled and boxed for shipping under contact by a firm in Colorado.

A 2-year warranty is nothing, and good luck getting your bike serviced under warranty by a branding company with no actual service mechanics.

last year their prices dropped considerably near the holiday shopping season at which time they were priced at a point perhaps worth a large online purchase risk. Most of the available stock actually sold out. Looks like the only updates to this year’s offerings are this year’s component groupsets. Frame geometries and paint schemes are the same. And the prices are back up again.

So no, not particularly good deals on their bikes. About the same as other offerings at the same prices. At least that how I see it.

still, like a lot of folks, I do like to look and wonder about what new bikes are out there.

Happy window shopping!

Paul Barnard

You didn't really think that through at all. Wal-Mart and all businesses exist to make money. To do that well, they have to cater to their customers. Most customers want low price and convenience. That's what Wal-Mart gives them.

Is this post going to elicit another tantrum?

Happy Feet

I guess there are two ways to look at the question of big or small business in cycling. On the one hand large corps do have the buying power to overwhelm smaller shops who continue to try to compete head to head. On the other hand, those smaller businesses often have no better business ethic than the larger corp. Often, on a local level it is tyranny of the few in regards to the local LBS. So often that staff, which should be competing via customer service, provide exactly the opposite. I've had staff lie to my face about availability I just looked up on the net, can't be bothered to return queries in reasonable time, or expect me to wait weeks or even months for a part I could order myself with a one week window - for twice as much. Many behaviors born out of laziness or practices that serve the business but not the customer. I try to give smaller shops some business because I think bricks and mortar are important, but often feel they are run by individuals who see their position as a way to be "lord of the castle" instead of "servant to the people" (to use a descriptive analogy).

Back to the OP. If I were beginning to spend that kind of money on a build ordered online I think I'd want to be pretty clear on the frame quality and sizing/return/warranty process. No matter how good the deal is, if it's a pita to deal with problems those savings begin to taste sour. But the bike looks good at first blush.

gravelslider

The vast majority of remaining local shops are pretty well run, if that is your experience then you are going to the wrong shop. Please do not generalize and imply people will get a bad experience from a local shop as theer are LOTS of really good ones out there.

And good luck expecting Walmart to be the "servant of the people" when you stroll in with your bike and ask them to check into that creaking bottom bracket. Maybe they will even move all of your parts over to the replacement frame for you for free because they sold you the bike in the first place.

thehammerdog

dirty kansa team walmart on rapha wear