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Bike Friday Pakit vs Brompton

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Bike Friday Pakit vs Brompton

Old 05-19-18, 07:09 AM
  #1  
Pahana
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Bike Friday Pakit vs Brompton

I own 2 Bromptons one a six speed and the other a 2 speed Ti. Bike Friday has a prelove Pakit for sale. It looks like a good fit as it's a small and I'm 5ft 4in tall. The bike is just under 20 pounds 4 speed with a Gates carbon belt drive. On paper it looks hard to pass up. I have demoed a Nwt and Tikit not in my size but near enough and they were nice rides. Maybe they were just a bit more stable than the Brompton but not a big difference. I was wondering if anyone could give me a small clue as to what the ride difference might be between the Brompton and Pakit. I hate aluminum bikes and realize that the Pakits front and rear are alloy with the main frame being steel. I just sold my Tern Verge X10 because I couldn't take the hard ride. Question does the Pakit ride like a steel or aluminum bike or something in between?
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Old 05-19-18, 09:23 AM
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Pakit . like all bike fridays, folds the rear wheel along side the frame, with angled hinges, so its wider.
It's rear section is including the BB, so that is how it gets you into the belt drive option..

Brompton has a hinge behind the BB , folds straight under , so is not as wide, folded.
but is only running chain drive with a pretty long pull chain tensioner..

Tikit was their quick folding bike , Pakit, which replaced it, is taken partially apart to fold...
My Brompton has a lot more stability and better feel with a front bag on it full of stuff.

The ability to add that to a Pakit may be an extra cost option.. New not pre made..

Bike Friday builds a bike for the buyer, from a list of size and component options ,
as your order comes up in the queue.

Brompton has racks of their component parts in various colors, made in advance,
they combine , lots are made just for/by them .


frame 1 size .. its 60 cm long.. the seat post and handle bar mast options are your sizing....




....

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-19-18 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 05-19-18, 09:27 AM
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I just sold my Tern Verge X10 because I couldn't take the hard ride.
You could order a bike friday, with a suspension seat post, My Pocket Llama has a Thudbuster..
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Old 05-19-18, 09:41 AM
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AFAIK the pakiT is NOT aluminum; the 4 speed specs are on their website...it's HiTen steel and cromoly steel. If you upgrade to lighter components you can get titanium (seat mast, stem riser). Mine is a small frame and I specced out a full custom set up, it is very light at just about 19 lbs (and getting lighter as I am swapping in the titanium parts).
How do the brompton's fit you in terms of ride position? That's one major advantage with the pakiT; much more adjustable in terms of fit. Second is the ride quality. It feels much more like a regular road bike than a folding bike. You can soften the ride if you want by going to wider tires at lower pressure, using titanium mast and stem, swap in a carbon fiber handlebar, and if you really want it cushy put on a thudbuster. If it were me, I'd start with the widest tires and maybe the titanium seat mast. The other stuff you can easily swap in yourself if you later decide you need it.
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Old 05-19-18, 11:39 AM
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I have 3 Bromptons(2013 S6L-X, 201? M3E, 2018 S2L-X) and a 2017 pakiT(medium, 55cm.).
For me the pakiT has the better ergonomics/position for long rides. Just finished the 40 mile
Five Boro Bike Tour a few weeks ago; no problems - could have ridden more miles:

2018 FIVE BORO BIKE TOUR by 1nterceptor, on Flickr
Basic comparo; Brompton vs. pakiT:
Have used my Brompton on a 100 mile ride; was a bit uncomfortable towards the end:

100 Miles(160 Km.) on a Brompton by 1nterceptor, on Flickr
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Old 05-19-18, 11:41 AM
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Last tip/thought, try to get the 165mm cranks:

BF pakiT 8.6 kilos by 1nterceptor, on Flickr
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Old 05-19-18, 12:14 PM
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Maybe Green speed Scorcher tires, I hear they're too wide for Bromptons.

Greenspeed Recumbents - Scorcher Tyres


they may sell your pakit with cast cranks rather than forged
unless you specify
and pay the difference
(my used Tikit still had the cast cranks on it, pedal fell out, threads failed..)

...

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-19-18 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 05-14-20, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
AFAIK the pakiT is NOT aluminum; the 4 speed specs are on their website...it's HiTen steel and cromoly steel. If you upgrade to lighter components you can get titanium (seat mast, stem riser). Mine is a small frame and I specced out a full custom set up, it is very light at just about 19 lbs (and getting lighter as I am swapping in the titanium parts).
How do the brompton's fit you in terms of ride position? That's one major advantage with the pakiT; much more adjustable in terms of fit. Second is the ride quality. It feels much more like a regular road bike than a folding bike. You can soften the ride if you want by going to wider tires at lower pressure, using titanium mast and stem, swap in a carbon fiber handlebar, and if you really want it cushy put on a thudbuster. If it were me, I'd start with the widest tires and maybe the titanium seat mast. The other stuff you can easily swap in yourself if you later decide you need it.
Any idea how wide tires can be made tofu the Pakit (without frame modifications)? Big Apples?
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Old 05-14-20, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mkatz View Post
Any idea how wide tires can be made tofu the Pakit (without frame modifications)? Big Apples?
AFAIK you can't fit them. the pakiT is not designed to accommodate anything much wider the 35mmm I believe. It's meant to be more like a road bike, light and fast. I started out with really skinny tires and now use 32mm. The NWT can fit big apples.
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Old 05-14-20, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
AFAIK you can't fit them. the pakiT is not designed to accommodate anything much wider the 35mmm I believe. It's meant to be more like a road bike, light and fast. I started out with really skinny tires and now use 32mm. The NWT can fit big apples.

For the sake of comfort when riding on Portland's not-so-great roads I'm thinking more and more of settling for a Birdy bike. The fold is not particularly compact and, at best, it's several pounds heavier than a carefully specced Pakit. Still, with a somewhat herculean effort (I'm an aging wimp) I should be able to chuck it into the back of my car. Id does ride well!
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Old 05-14-20, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mkatz View Post
For the sake of comfort when riding on Portland's not-so-great roads I'm thinking more and more of settling for a Birdy bike. The fold is not particularly compact and, at best, it's several pounds heavier than a carefully specced Pakit. Still, with a somewhat herculean effort (I'm an aging wimp) I should be able to chuck it into the back of my car. Id does ride well!
There are several ways to go:

1. pakiT with titanium seat mast and stem (that's what I have) and use the old-school mountain biking stand out of the saddle for bumps.
2. get a thudbuster with or without #1 .
3. Get a folder with suspension like a birdy, sacrifice fold and weight for ride cushiness.

Just #1 works for me along with as slightly lower tire pressure. Lots of folks find thudbusters effective. Nothing wrong with Birdy, it's a fine bike. You have to prioritize fold/ride/weight/comfort in the order that matters most to you.
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Old 05-15-20, 02:40 AM
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I do not agree on about the folding of the Birdy vs. the folding of the PakiT.

The PakiT doesn't fully fold, to have it fully packed, you need to remove the front wheel. It is not very difficult but if you have been riding n wet roads its dirty.

The Birdy folds easily, not as easily as the Brompton, but its really easy to fold it.

The folded size of the Birdy isn't as small as the Brompton but not far (the last gen of Birdy folds slightly smaller than previously).

About the weight, the Birdy GT (10.3kg, not so bad) comes with heavy wheels, brakes and transmission, its possible to save weight on those components (as always, lightweight components have a cost !).



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Old 05-15-20, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
I do not agree on about the folding of the Birdy vs. the folding of the PakiT.

The PakiT doesn't fully fold, to have it fully packed, you need to remove the front wheel. It is not very difficult but if you have been riding n wet roads its dirty.

The Birdy folds easily, not as easily as the Brompton, but its really easy to fold it.

The folded size of the Birdy isn't as small as the Brompton but not far (the last gen of Birdy folds slightly smaller than previously).

About the weight, the Birdy GT (10.3kg, not so bad) comes with heavy wheels, brakes and transmission, its possible to save weight on those components (as always, lightweight components have a cost !).



My expectation is to be riding almost exclusively on well maintained trails (asphalt, concrete, crushed rock, gravel, occasional cobblestones... rather than over gnarly roots, aggressive curb-hopping, jumps, etc.): I'm at an age where I really do not like punishing my already much abused body.

Also, I really do not have a budget, as such. Do you have any idea how much weight higher grade transmission, wheels, brakes, etc would save (short of replacing every bolt with titanium)? I do want to stay with wide tires that are relatively puncture resistant and "cushy"; realistically, safety, convenience and comfort rather than straight speed are my priorities (and low weight!).

It looks like MightyVelo in Singapore is amenable to custom building and shipping to the U.S.
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Old 05-15-20, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
I do not agree on about the folding of the Birdy vs. the folding of the PakiT.

The PakiT doesn't fully fold, to have it fully packed, you need to remove the front wheel. It is not very difficult but if you have been riding n wet roads its dirty.

The Birdy folds easily, not as easily as the Brompton, but its really easy to fold it.

The folded size of the Birdy isn't as small as the Brompton but not far (the last gen of Birdy folds slightly smaller than previously).

About the weight, the Birdy GT (10.3kg, not so bad) comes with heavy wheels, brakes and transmission, its possible to save weight on those components (as always, lightweight components have a cost !).



FYI, the pakiT quick folds just fine. It's narrower but longer than the Brompton. You only need to remove the front wheel if you are going to put it in a suitcase or the stupid backpack thing. I fold mine 4-6 times a day in less than 20 seconds each time; it is stable and stays folded to carry or roll (yes, I can roll it on the front wheel). Just depends on what you want - smallest folded size or lightest bike (sub 19 lbs for mine).
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Old 05-15-20, 01:58 PM
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I own two Bromptons and five Dahons even though I live within 100 miles from Bike Friday in Eugene, OR. Their customer service experiences with me in the past with Bike Friday has been very poor. Many more Brompton & Dahon dealers around that give me good service. Too bad they make two bikes I would buy if I didn’t have to deal with the BF factory.
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Old 05-15-20, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mkatz View Post
Also, I really do not have a budget, as such. Do you have any idea how much weight higher grade transmission, wheels, brakes, etc would save (short of replacing every bolt with titanium)? I do want to stay with wide tires that are relatively puncture resistant and "cushy"; realistically, safety, convenience and comfort rather than straight speed are my priorities (and low weight!).
Saving weight always cost (a lot of) money !

For instance, you change the Tektro brake levers for the excellent Ridea brake levers, you save 80g and it costs about 100€.

Another example, you change the basic KMC X10 chain by a KMC X10-SL you save 40g and it cost about 45€.

You can also change the VP-197 pedals for HT AR-12T titanium, you save 100g and it cost about 150USD.

You can change the San Marco Era Open-Fit Wide for the AX-Lightness Leaf saddle (see the picture of my two bikes above) and you will save 200g but it costs 229€

You can change the SRAM cassette by a 10s XTR cassette what saves about 50g and cost about 150€.

I am pretty sure that the crankset is heavy (but no exact weight info as it is not branded) you will be able to save something between 100g and 200g.

For the wheels, you can build lightweight wheels with lightweight hubs (like the front Hubsmith Birdy disc hub) with Kinlin TL21 lightweight rims instead of the heavy Alex Crostini and 28 Sapim CX-ray spokes instead of 32 heavy non-butted spokes saving something between 300 and 400g for a price of 700-800€ depending of the chosen rear hub.

So saving around 1kg in total for a lot of $ !
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Old 05-15-20, 03:31 PM
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Jipe,

Thanks! This information does help in terms of giving me a starting point to consider. Next comes spending some time online exploring these and other options.
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Old 05-15-20, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tim24k View Post
I own two Bromptons and five Dahons even though I live within 100 miles from Bike Friday in Eugene, OR. Their customer service experiences with me in the past with Bike Friday has been very poor. Many more Brompton & Dahon dealers around that give me good service. Too bad they make two bikes I would buy if I didn’t have to deal with the BF factory.
I'm surprised to hear that. I've had incredible experiences with them and know a fair number of other people who have as well.
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Old 06-05-20, 11:49 PM
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Birdy for sell

Hey mkatz,

I currently own a 6 speed brompton, and a birdy III with rohloff 14 speed IGH. Perhaps looking to sell my birdy, let me you if you are interested and I can get some info and pics sent to you. Cheers!
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Old 06-06-20, 12:28 PM
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Brompton has spawned a huge 3rd party bling parts manufacturing sector, most in Asia..

and shipped even back to UK to put on your Brompton s there,.. like https://www.bikegang.co.uk/
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Old 06-06-20, 12:41 PM
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For those who don't know, most parts sold by Bikegang at EU prices are shipped directly from Taiwan, not from the UK and subject to import taxes even in the EU.

Only a small part of what is proposed on the website is actually in stock in the UK and shipped from the UK.

Webshops like Cyclodonia or SJS also with EU prices have the parts in stock France or UK and ship from France or UK.

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Old 06-06-20, 12:59 PM
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So would they ship TW to USA. with one currency exchange or 2? TW>UK>USA
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Old 06-06-20, 02:41 PM
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I don't know, I am not in the US, but for Europe and products not in stock in the UK, they ship from TW to EU directly meaning that the buyer has to pay the import taxes if any.
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Old 06-06-20, 03:08 PM
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Hey jipe, you still looking to sell your multi s suspension set?
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Old 06-07-20, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Skiingbeerman View Post
Hey jipe, you still looking to sell your multi s suspension set?
Thanks for asking, its already sold to another member.
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