Are Drop bars just an illusion for most?
09-07-19, 12:37 PM
#276
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Over 55 years since my first racing bike, countless hundreds of thousands of racing and training miles, and I instinctively go into the drops for the scariest emergency braking situations.
Otherwise, I instinctively go to the hoods (i.e., for all but the scariest situations).
In other words, I brake from the hoods about 99% of the time.
Although, come to think of it, I used to brake from the drops almost exclusively when I was still racing. But that was with Campy Record and Super Record side-pulls, which were notoriously lacking in braking power (our area Campy sales rep used to explain that away by referring to them as "speed modulators," with a straight face).
Otherwise, I instinctively go to the hoods (i.e., for all but the scariest situations).
In other words, I brake from the hoods about 99% of the time.
Although, come to think of it, I used to brake from the drops almost exclusively when I was still racing. But that was with Campy Record and Super Record side-pulls, which were notoriously lacking in braking power (our area Campy sales rep used to explain that away by referring to them as "speed modulators," with a straight face).
Last edited by Trakhak; 09-07-19 at 12:40 PM.
09-07-19, 06:09 PM
#277
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Over 55 years since my first racing bike, countless hundreds of thousands of racing and training miles, and I instinctively go into the drops for the scariest emergency braking situations.
Otherwise, I instinctively go to the hoods (i.e., for all but the scariest situations).
In other words, I brake from the hoods about 99% of the time.
Although, come to think of it, I used to brake from the drops almost exclusively when I was still racing. But that was with Campy Record and Super Record side-pulls, which were notoriously lacking in braking power (our area Campy sales rep used to explain that away by referring to them as "speed modulators," with a straight face).
Otherwise, I instinctively go to the hoods (i.e., for all but the scariest situations).
In other words, I brake from the hoods about 99% of the time.
Although, come to think of it, I used to brake from the drops almost exclusively when I was still racing. But that was with Campy Record and Super Record side-pulls, which were notoriously lacking in braking power (our area Campy sales rep used to explain that away by referring to them as "speed modulators," with a straight face).
09-07-19, 08:33 PM
#279
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I think I was at least 40 years old, maybe older, before I rode anywhere but in the drops or saw any reason to ride anywhere but the drops and I still do not. This hood riding thing came along with modern bicycles that have very little drop and brifters for shifting, the tops riding thing is MTB converts and hipsters on SS/Fixies with interrupter brakes on the tops. I am a brifter free zone.
09-08-19, 08:17 AM
#280
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I think I was at least 40 years old, maybe older, before I rode anywhere but in the drops or saw any reason to ride anywhere but the drops and I still do not. This hood riding thing came along with modern bicycles that have very little drop and brifters for shifting, the tops riding thing is MTB converts and hipsters on SS/Fixies with interrupter brakes on the tops. I am a brifter free zone.
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09-09-19, 06:19 AM
#282
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I like drop bars for security on fast speed descents. That said, my hands are too small and wrists too arthritic to be able to brake for any length of time from that position. My neck also gives out looking up from the the drops while braking even though my touring bike bars are 2 inches higher than saddle. The hood position is more comfortable but I can't apply much power from there for long duration... just works for a quick stop or a slight slowing down.
I've found that cross top (interrupter) levers to be ideal for strong power braking on drop bar tops with the same leverage provided by mountain bike flat bar levers. Unlike the old "safety" levers pictured by FiftySix, the cross tops work. I have cantilevers, not sure if they work with discs. The higher, narrower position of cross tops takes some getting used to but it is now my go to position for any long descent. I only use the drops for high speeds with light braking.
Cross tops are particularly useful for long, slow gravel descents that require continual braking but without much risk of getting dislodged from bars on high speed bumps as discussed previously ...
Lemhi Pass ID ^
I've found that cross top (interrupter) levers to be ideal for strong power braking on drop bar tops with the same leverage provided by mountain bike flat bar levers. Unlike the old "safety" levers pictured by FiftySix, the cross tops work. I have cantilevers, not sure if they work with discs. The higher, narrower position of cross tops takes some getting used to but it is now my go to position for any long descent. I only use the drops for high speeds with light braking.
Cross tops are particularly useful for long, slow gravel descents that require continual braking but without much risk of getting dislodged from bars on high speed bumps as discussed previously ...
Lemhi Pass ID ^
Last edited by BobG; 09-09-19 at 07:28 AM.
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09-09-19, 06:57 AM
#285
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09-09-19, 07:18 AM
#286
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I'm not going to pretend that I'm doing any downhill riding on mountains, but I do encounter some pretty good size hills with some pretty bad roads, and I do ride the hoods on some of these because I think the higher head position gives me a better chance of scanning the road ahead of me for obstacles. I spend a lot of time riding on country roads I've never been on before so this can be an important consideration.
09-09-19, 08:47 AM
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Just ignoring the troll above
Hunched over the front of the bike is not the best position for descending, it's only the best for a bike not set up to descend and hampered by other design influences. Downhill MTB, probably the most demanding downhill movement and braking genre, has an upright flatbar braking position.
I think, like most arguments on forums, the less important the issue - the more entrenched positions are held. Often stemming from personal perspectives rather than anything else. That's what most of this thread is about. "I use to do it this way, that's the way it should be done!" My bike is set up this way, it's the right way!" Seems pretty clear to me that several different ways work well enough and each has a benefit and draw back. I include my own perspective in that but also realise that that's what the issue boils down to - personal choice.
I've always felt not having a firm stance on what I will and won't try has let me experience a lot of different styles without prejudgement. This weekend I did a short tour on a fat bike. I met a guy who say "I gotta ask: Why?" All I could answer, aside from it allowed me to do some trails was "It was fun."
Unless we are professional cyclists that's all biking is. If we start to insult each other over the choices for having fun (myself included) I think we have lost the theme.
I rode over 200 miles on two different drop bar bikes this weekend, and I paid attention to what my hands were doing on the hoods as regards the brakes. My hands are actually wrapped quite firmly around the hoods with two fingers over the top of the brake levers in a position that is clearly no less secure than any hand position on a flat bar. It is true that the top of the brake lever is not the ideal position to apply maximum pressure to the lever, but I realized while I was riding that what I actually do is apply the brakes from the "bad" position and then immediately slide my hand down to complete the close. It takes a fraction of a second and is so fast and automatic that I've never realized up to now that I was doing it.
I'm not going to pretend that I'm doing any downhill riding on mountains, but I do encounter some pretty good size hills with some pretty bad roads, and I do ride the hoods on some of these because I think the higher head position gives me a better chance of scanning the road ahead of me for obstacles. I spend a lot of time riding on country roads I've never been on before so this can be an important consideration.
I'm not going to pretend that I'm doing any downhill riding on mountains, but I do encounter some pretty good size hills with some pretty bad roads, and I do ride the hoods on some of these because I think the higher head position gives me a better chance of scanning the road ahead of me for obstacles. I spend a lot of time riding on country roads I've never been on before so this can be an important consideration.
I think, like most arguments on forums, the less important the issue - the more entrenched positions are held. Often stemming from personal perspectives rather than anything else. That's what most of this thread is about. "I use to do it this way, that's the way it should be done!" My bike is set up this way, it's the right way!" Seems pretty clear to me that several different ways work well enough and each has a benefit and draw back. I include my own perspective in that but also realise that that's what the issue boils down to - personal choice.
I've always felt not having a firm stance on what I will and won't try has let me experience a lot of different styles without prejudgement. This weekend I did a short tour on a fat bike. I met a guy who say "I gotta ask: Why?" All I could answer, aside from it allowed me to do some trails was "It was fun."
Unless we are professional cyclists that's all biking is. If we start to insult each other over the choices for having fun (myself included) I think we have lost the theme.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-09-19 at 08:55 AM.
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09-09-19, 08:57 AM
#289
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Just ignoring the troll above
I also have cross top or interrupters on a bike (not my current endurance bike). They work great!
I think, like most arguments on forums, the less important the issue - the more entrenched positions are held. Often stemming from personal perspectives rather than anything else. That's what most of this thread is about. "I use to do it this way, that's the way it should be done!" My bike is set up this way, it's the right way!" Seems pretty clear to me that several different ways work well enough and each has a benefit and draw back. I include my own perspective in that but also realise that that's what the issue boils down to - personal choice.
I've always felt not having a firm stance on what I will and won't try has let me experience a lot of different styles without prejudgement. This weekend I did a short tour on a fat bike. I met a guy who say "I gotta ask: Why?" All I could answer, aside from it allowed me to do some trails was "It was fun."
Unless we are professional cyclists that's all biking is. If we start to insult each other over the choices for having fun (myself included) I think we have lost the theme.
I also have cross top or interrupters on a bike (not my current endurance bike). They work great!
I think, like most arguments on forums, the less important the issue - the more entrenched positions are held. Often stemming from personal perspectives rather than anything else. That's what most of this thread is about. "I use to do it this way, that's the way it should be done!" My bike is set up this way, it's the right way!" Seems pretty clear to me that several different ways work well enough and each has a benefit and draw back. I include my own perspective in that but also realise that that's what the issue boils down to - personal choice.
I've always felt not having a firm stance on what I will and won't try has let me experience a lot of different styles without prejudgement. This weekend I did a short tour on a fat bike. I met a guy who say "I gotta ask: Why?" All I could answer, aside from it allowed me to do some trails was "It was fun."
Unless we are professional cyclists that's all biking is. If we start to insult each other over the choices for having fun (myself included) I think we have lost the theme.
Like all safety considerations, we're trying to balance probabilities for different kinds of mishaps and, like you say, the close calls are the ones we end up arguing about. Easy calls like "don't put a red flashing light facing forward on your handlebars" aren't going to be argued about.
09-09-19, 08:58 AM
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09-09-19, 09:41 AM
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Mazel tov!
I do find design choices interesting.
I wonder how much of traditional drop bar design is set in inertia and arbitrary rules from a sport governing body. They (racers) use that design because they have to and create some pretty inventive workarounds because of it ie. superman or sitting on the top tube positions for descending. When freed from the rules drop bars seem to go out the window or morph.
TT's for the TdF have very different bars, Ironman bars don't have drops, touring bikes in Europe tend to eshue drop bars for flats with bar ends or butterfly bars and even gravel biking, basically road biking without the tradition, almost immediately changed the drop bar position design to shallow, flared and cantered.
That's a lot of changing for a design that's the best.
I do find design choices interesting.
I wonder how much of traditional drop bar design is set in inertia and arbitrary rules from a sport governing body. They (racers) use that design because they have to and create some pretty inventive workarounds because of it ie. superman or sitting on the top tube positions for descending. When freed from the rules drop bars seem to go out the window or morph.
TT's for the TdF have very different bars, Ironman bars don't have drops, touring bikes in Europe tend to eshue drop bars for flats with bar ends or butterfly bars and even gravel biking, basically road biking without the tradition, almost immediately changed the drop bar position design to shallow, flared and cantered.
That's a lot of changing for a design that's the best.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-09-19 at 09:44 AM.
09-09-19, 09:43 AM
#293
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I think I was at least 40 years old, maybe older, before I rode anywhere but in the drops or saw any reason to ride anywhere but the drops and I still do not. This hood riding thing came along with modern bicycles that have very little drop and brifters for shifting, the tops riding thing is MTB converts and hipsters on SS/Fixies with interrupter brakes on the tops. I am a brifter free zone.
I guess not putting in my time at the feet of masters like yourself has rendered me nothing more than a hairy-legged Dirty Heathen, forever ingorant of The Rules of how to properly ride a bicycle.
We MTB 'converts' (some of us are still unreformed) like to have our shifting and braking within a finger's reach of each other. Safer, that way, ya know? especially in the woods. Had that figured out back when Schwinns were still made in Chicago.
And it's not the MTB guys riding cross-tops. Too narrow. We came up with the (Salsa) Woodchipper and the (Soma) Condor, because 'Technical Riding' can mean very different things depending on where you're doing it.
09-09-19, 11:53 AM
#296
Qfactor
'peer' pressure
I'm not convinced that people are told (as mentioned above) what handlebars to use. I think that most people don't go to the trouble (and expense) of trying out the options. Manufacturers for decades have been spec'ing road and off-road bikes with bars that are impractical and/or uncomfortable for the majority of riders. Shop staff share in the responsibility.
Last edited by BurleyCat; 09-09-19 at 11:56 AM. Reason: clarity
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09-09-19, 12:01 PM
#298
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09-09-19, 12:28 PM
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I think I was at least 40 years old, maybe older, before I rode anywhere but in the drops or saw any reason to ride anywhere but the drops and I still do not. This hood riding thing came along with modern bicycles that have very little drop and brifters for shifting, the tops riding thing is MTB converts and hipsters on SS/Fixies with interrupter brakes on the tops. I am a brifter free zone.
09-09-19, 12:30 PM
#300
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Sure, the Condor is a drop bar. Its a unique drop bar to say the least as there are very few bars that are even close to imitating it. Its like a Randonneur bar on steroids with how much upsweep there is on the tops. But the beauty of drop bars is there are dozens of designs to fit each person's vision of comfort.
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