Santa Ana River Trail-Less safe now ?
09-07-19, 10:34 AM
#451
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SoCal really needs to get it's act together and move these homeless folks out of here, it's getting to the point of lunacy to allow these vagrants to live the way they do, much of the time by choice. You can tolerate a handful but beyond that there's too much potential for some serious problems. You want to live off the grid fine, go out in the boonies or desert.
Otherwise, apply your solution personally, and move yourself adequately away from the perceived offense: I suggest San Clemente Island... the naval gunnery side should suit well....
09-07-19, 11:21 AM
#452
Non omnino gravis
- people living outside the system by choice
- the mentally ill
- those on the sexual offender registry who cannot obtain housing
I don't consider myself to lack compassion, but I also have zero desire to advocate for any of the above groups. They cover a range from "do not want help" to "cannot be helped." Group one is the biggest portion of our transient population, and they are essentially anarchists. They don't want to pay bills, they don't want to work, they don't want to be told what to do. Some of those ousted from the SART corridor in Anaheim last year had been living in the section of the river trail for over a decade. They are not victims. They don't need advocacy.
I think most outsiders really don't have a sense of the scale of the situation here. Out of the ~580,000 homeless nationally, 1 in 5 is in California, and nearly half of those-- around 50,000, are in the greater L.A. area.
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09-07-19, 11:22 AM
#453
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Unfortunately, I think the original purpose of this post How safe is it to ride the SART, has devolved a bit. All of us wish there was an easy answer to resolving the homeless problem. But, that is not what this thread is really about. It's about being able to enjoy a public bike path/trail and not feeling threatened or afraid. It's also used as a bit of a "shout out" and giving those of use who frequent this trail a bit of a heads-up as to how the trail is evolving.
09-07-19, 11:24 AM
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we don't have a significant homeless population in inland socal. What we have are "people without permanent residence." those folks are divided into three basic groups:
I don't consider myself to lack compassion, but i also have zero desire to advocate for any of the above groups. They cover a range from "do not want help" to "cannot be helped." group one is the biggest portion of our transient population, and they are essentially anarchists. They don't want to pay bills, they don't want to work, they don't want to be told what to do. Some of those ousted from the sart corridor in anaheim last year had been living in the section of the river trail for over a decade. They are not victims. They don't need advocacy.
I think most outsiders really don't have a sense of the scale of the situation here. Out of the ~580,000 homeless nationally, 1 in 5 is in california, and nearly half of those-- around 50,000, are in the greater l.a. Area.
- people living outside the system by choice
- the mentally ill
- those on the sexual offender registry who cannot obtain housing
I don't consider myself to lack compassion, but i also have zero desire to advocate for any of the above groups. They cover a range from "do not want help" to "cannot be helped." group one is the biggest portion of our transient population, and they are essentially anarchists. They don't want to pay bills, they don't want to work, they don't want to be told what to do. Some of those ousted from the sart corridor in anaheim last year had been living in the section of the river trail for over a decade. They are not victims. They don't need advocacy.
I think most outsiders really don't have a sense of the scale of the situation here. Out of the ~580,000 homeless nationally, 1 in 5 is in california, and nearly half of those-- around 50,000, are in the greater l.a. Area.
09-07-19, 02:08 PM
#455
Senior Member
Please consider educating yourself compassionately on the issues and then advocating FOR the homeless....
Otherwise, apply your solution personally, and move yourself adequately away from the perceived offense: I suggest San Clemente Island... the naval gunnery side should suit well....
Otherwise, apply your solution personally, and move yourself adequately away from the perceived offense: I suggest San Clemente Island... the naval gunnery side should suit well....
Compassion? How about compassion for those "normal" hard working folks that are constantly victimized by the homeless? This includes violence, burglary and exposure to diseases we haven't seen in centuries. There's a reason we didn't allow public camping. Can you pull any compassion out of your butt for them?
Compassion? How compassionate is it to let people do drugs and live on the street, effectively a slow and painful death sentence? Doing drugs on the street like we're seeing and not helping them is basically a death sentence. My understanding, about 1,000 people die on the streets a year in the LA area. Is that what you'd call compassion, because they aren't being helped in any way that is productive. The numbers now are too high. If they had jumped on the problem when two people showed up with tents, it would have been manageable but they've let it slide until it's now a huge problem. Their "compassionate" plan helps maybe 20 year. I'm referring to the really bad off ones that need the most help like drug addicts and the legitimately insane. Is that compassion? Because I think your so-called compassion is what caused this problem to get out of hand and kill people by the thousands.
Compassion? How compassionate is it for the environment to litter tons of trash in the riverbeds just to be swept out to sea? Fortunately the SART has been cleared of the people, but now they have to remove tons of contaminated soil from the piss and crap deposited for several years. So while CA is stupidly banning straws, hundreds of thousands of tons of trash and disease are being swept out to sea. When you power wash the sidewalks and streets, where do you think all of that goes? It bypasses the sewer treatment plants. Great plan.
Compassion? How about the homeless that are victimized by other homeless? Again by violence, drugs and prostitution.
Compassion? Is it compassionate not to change the laws so that we can force some of these poor souls into long-term care? It's obvious some are so far gone they can't help themselves but the current laws are limiting whereby you can put them into care, but they can walk out anytime they choose. Is that compassionate for those that can't help themselves? To let them walk out and eventually die a slow and painful death? Wow.
Please, "compassion" is why we're in the soup we're in now. That's not compassion by any stretch. It's the exact opposite.
Sometimes people voice themselves out of frustration that our politicians and local leaders are not taking care of the problem like they are elected to do. Your false compassion argument is a waste of time and dangerous to everyone involved. GFY
Last edited by HBCruiser1; 09-07-19 at 02:37 PM.
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09-07-19, 02:34 PM
#456
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We don't have a significant homeless population in Inland SoCal. What we have are "people without permanent residence." Those folks are divided into three basic groups:
I don't consider myself to lack compassion, but I also have zero desire to advocate for any of the above groups. They cover a range from "do not want help" to "cannot be helped." Group one is the biggest portion of our transient population, and they are essentially anarchists. They don't want to pay bills, they don't want to work, they don't want to be told what to do. Some of those ousted from the SART corridor in Anaheim last year had been living in the section of the river trail for over a decade. They are not victims. They don't need advocacy.
I think most outsiders really don't have a sense of the scale of the situation here. Out of the ~580,000 homeless nationally, 1 in 5 is in California, and nearly half of those-- around 50,000, are in the greater L.A. area.
- people living outside the system by choice
- the mentally ill
- those on the sexual offender registry who cannot obtain housing
I don't consider myself to lack compassion, but I also have zero desire to advocate for any of the above groups. They cover a range from "do not want help" to "cannot be helped." Group one is the biggest portion of our transient population, and they are essentially anarchists. They don't want to pay bills, they don't want to work, they don't want to be told what to do. Some of those ousted from the SART corridor in Anaheim last year had been living in the section of the river trail for over a decade. They are not victims. They don't need advocacy.
I think most outsiders really don't have a sense of the scale of the situation here. Out of the ~580,000 homeless nationally, 1 in 5 is in California, and nearly half of those-- around 50,000, are in the greater L.A. area.
The public is slowly beginning to push back. The SART was finally cleared of the campers and frustration is building in communities all over. Normal people will only let this happen for so long. Being one of the top tier taxed states in the nation and living in less than third world conditions (in some communities) doesn't pencil out and when folks realize what is really happening they'll revolt.
Or maybe when some major disease finally breaks out of the encampments infecting the rest of us by the 10's of thousands. Maybe then something will be done. I don't know but it's gone on way too long already.
09-07-19, 03:17 PM
#457
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Back in the 1960's there was a political conjunction from both sides of the spectrum that led to its dismantling in California.
From the left there was the delusional notion that taking care of someone that could not (or would not) take care of themselves was depriving them of their right to be crazy.
The right jumped on the bandwagon because it was an excuse to quit funding the system.
That and the arrival of psychiatric drugs changed the treatment paradigm to give 'em a pill and send them on their way.
From the left there was the delusional notion that taking care of someone that could not (or would not) take care of themselves was depriving them of their right to be crazy.
The right jumped on the bandwagon because it was an excuse to quit funding the system.
That and the arrival of psychiatric drugs changed the treatment paradigm to give 'em a pill and send them on their way.
Some of those that need it the most have been housed in our prison systems. Not where they should be, but we're seeing the effects now that CA is emptying it's prisons of so-called "non-violent offenders" and basically making burglary and drug use legal.
We had a close friend lose one of their sons to mental illness. Because of the laws, they couldn't commit him to a hospital to be cared for and live. After years of abuse and a roller coaster of drug use, he finally died of an overdose.
So there has to be a common middle ground between not committing people who could take care of themselves and forcing those that need help, to get help. The drugs today like Chinese Fentanyl are too cheap and too powerful to just let those that need help hit bottom and realize they need help. They won't. They'll just die a slow and painful death.
09-07-19, 07:16 PM
#458
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The overwhelming majority of those choosing to live this lifestyle are addicts.
The end effect of decriminalizing addiction is that you can't force someone into treatment. Another "liberal" concept with unanticipated consequences.
So instead you condemn them to a slow death with all the adjutant effects on their family and the rest of society that they inflict on their way down.
The end effect of decriminalizing addiction is that you can't force someone into treatment. Another "liberal" concept with unanticipated consequences.
So instead you condemn them to a slow death with all the adjutant effects on their family and the rest of society that they inflict on their way down.
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09-09-19, 10:36 PM
#459
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The overwhelming majority of those choosing to live this lifestyle are addicts.
The end effect of decriminalizing addiction is that you can't force someone into treatment. Another "liberal" concept with unanticipated consequences.
So instead you condemn them to a slow death with all the adjutant effects on their family and the rest of society that they inflict on their way down.
The end effect of decriminalizing addiction is that you can't force someone into treatment. Another "liberal" concept with unanticipated consequences.
So instead you condemn them to a slow death with all the adjutant effects on their family and the rest of society that they inflict on their way down.
GFY
Drug abuse is the definition of a nonpartisan issue...pointing fingers & laying blame serve no purpose, other than to stir the pot of "no progress." Welcome to politics.
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09-10-19, 01:33 AM
#460
Senior Member
Who's making the decisions, in this case to do nothing.?
Who's behind legalizing public drug use?
Who's behind laws decriminalizing theft?
Who's behind allowing camping in public even though it's illegal?
Who's behind stealing billions of dollars from the taxpayer, then using it to build a handful of housing in LA at a cost of $750,000 per unit?
Who's generally behind the absolute failure of many of the big cities?
Who's behind changing the language to soften the affect? 1000's of people are dying. What good does softening the language do?
What media has generally be complicit in this mess?
These are generally not a conservative approach. Most conservatives are against these things.
I'm with you 100% it's not partisan, but one team has been an abject failure at handling major issues like these by ALL measurable standards.
Can we agree it's a failure?
Last edited by HBCruiser1; 09-10-19 at 01:38 AM.
09-10-19, 02:03 AM
#461
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in the last two years, ridden (at least) portions (sometimes complete path) of the ojai valley, carpinteria/ventura, marvin braude, ballona creek, whatever the one that follows the light rail in santa monica is called, sgrt, sart,
coyote creek, rio hondo, la river, long beach, huntington beach, irvine network, trail from sjc train station to the sea (forget the name), hwy 76 bike path, rails to trails paths in carlsbad/escondido/san marcos along the 78/5,
56 bike path, 52 bike path, 54 bike path, 75 silver strand, 94 bike path + smaller paths around the socal region like in fullerton. def a larger homeless presence in the la area river based trails (la river/sgrt/sart/rio hondo/coyote creek)
that is larger than the san diego area paths. orange county east of the 55 fwy has been golden. the path areas are a great resource to have but i find myself opting out of the trails in the la basin area more often lately and scouting for decent routes on the streets. mostly for variety (the paths are boring-but generally direct) and i've never had an issue/situation any of the listed paths in socal.
coyote creek, rio hondo, la river, long beach, huntington beach, irvine network, trail from sjc train station to the sea (forget the name), hwy 76 bike path, rails to trails paths in carlsbad/escondido/san marcos along the 78/5,
56 bike path, 52 bike path, 54 bike path, 75 silver strand, 94 bike path + smaller paths around the socal region like in fullerton. def a larger homeless presence in the la area river based trails (la river/sgrt/sart/rio hondo/coyote creek)
that is larger than the san diego area paths. orange county east of the 55 fwy has been golden. the path areas are a great resource to have but i find myself opting out of the trails in the la basin area more often lately and scouting for decent routes on the streets. mostly for variety (the paths are boring-but generally direct) and i've never had an issue/situation any of the listed paths in socal.
09-11-19, 07:51 PM
#462
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I have a solution for all the homeless. Ship them all to "Slab City". Look it up. It's a real place.
Jon
Jon
09-13-19, 01:24 AM
#463
Senior Member
Well, I guess that settles it folks. ooga-booga has never had an issue. I guess it's all been a figment of people's imagination. Good thing municipal action to remove the ~1500 vagrants off the SART wasn't based on whether or not YOU had any "issues". Useless comment. Seriously.
09-13-19, 02:49 AM
#464
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my experiences and comments, unlike everyone else's, are useless. seriously. those tax write-off's tho...
was responding more to post #453 since the original intent of the thread was far different than what it has become.
next time i ride on the sart (it's been about a month), i'll post about my experience(s)-good or bad-as i have before. if it helps-great.
if it doesn't help further what the thread has morphed into, then that's a bummer in the summer. i'll expect more shaming and ridicule.
calls for a coke slurpee from 7-11 and/or a chocolate dipped chocolate cone from dairy queen. don't mind if i do...
was responding more to post #453 since the original intent of the thread was far different than what it has become.
next time i ride on the sart (it's been about a month), i'll post about my experience(s)-good or bad-as i have before. if it helps-great.
if it doesn't help further what the thread has morphed into, then that's a bummer in the summer. i'll expect more shaming and ridicule.
calls for a coke slurpee from 7-11 and/or a chocolate dipped chocolate cone from dairy queen. don't mind if i do...
Last edited by diphthong; 09-13-19 at 04:27 AM.
09-13-19, 06:41 AM
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About a week ago I rode from the beach up to Ball/Taft. The trail was wide open and clear of debris and obstructions. I've been doing this ride more often now that the path is clear. There also seem to be a lot more people on bikes than there was a year or 2 ago. BTW, Edna park (about 7 miles from the beach) has a posted "rest area" and it's a good place to fill up your water bottles and use the rest room if needed.
09-13-19, 08:20 AM
#466
Senior Member
About a month ago we rode from MacArthur to Imperial. The entire way was clear. There may still be the odd homeless person or a few tucked up under some of the overpasses, but that’s it.
The 405 widening project might impact the trail where it crosses under the freeway at some point. They are doing a lot of bridge work all along the freeway.
The 405 widening project might impact the trail where it crosses under the freeway at some point. They are doing a lot of bridge work all along the freeway.
09-13-19, 09:16 AM
#467
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I had essentially stopped riding the trail, and now have returned and ridden from Green River to the coast each weekend for the last few months- it does feel like there has been a big increase in usage by more casual riders- families, couple cruising, runners, etc.
It's nice to see folks out using the trail more often.
It's nice to see folks out using the trail more often.
09-13-19, 03:26 PM
#468
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Just getting re-started riding again after a long layoff . . . rode 7 miles from Hidden Valley up past the water treatment plant and such. Noticed a few tents and things, but nothing on the path and nobody visible (and especially no "parts" visible)
09-13-19, 06:55 PM
#469
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I'll also vouch that the lower part of the SART is free of the homeless these days. I regularly ride between the beach and the Katella bridge crossing, and rarely see any homeless along that stretch of the path. Just lots of walkers, joggers, bicycle riders of all types (damn those TTr's and their pacelines!!!). Also see the occasional police/sheriff patrol car or motorcycle, but the homeless seem to be staying away from the river.
09-15-19, 12:08 PM
#470
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The issue really isn't on the trail, its in the riverbed. They'll migrate up to move stuff and now you see cars (yes, they drive cars into the riverbed now) on it but for the most part its in the 'forest' of the riverbed. Which always annoys me, they're destroying the habitat. Its one of the few places where there's vegetation and between the homeless and off roaders its not in great shape.
09-15-19, 12:16 PM
#471
Non omnino gravis
The OC purge definitely pushed a big chunk of the "homeless" population inland. There are more now than previously. They were getting pretty bold around Mt. Rubidoux/ Bonaminio Park, but seem to have gotten pushed out recently.
It wouldn't be a problem for the trail, except that glass bottles seem to only be used for two purposes: recycling for CRV, or smashing on the ground. Nothing in between.
It wouldn't be a problem for the trail, except that glass bottles seem to only be used for two purposes: recycling for CRV, or smashing on the ground. Nothing in between.
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09-25-19, 05:50 AM
#472
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Slab City, also called The Slabs, is a largely snowbird community in the Sonoran Desert located in Imperial County, California, 100 miles northeast of San Diego and 169 miles southeast of Los Angeles within the California Badlands, and used by recreational vehicle owners and squatters from across North America. WikipediaLocation: Sonoran Desert, California (4 miles northeast of Niland)
09-25-19, 05:52 AM
#473
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Just yesterday, Tuesday September 25, 2019 I looked at the mouth of the SART in Huntington Beach and saw one tent out there in the sand. My immediate reaction was "homeless".
09-25-19, 10:04 AM
#474
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In other south-end-of-the-SART news, that Carl's Jr. that was at Brookhurst and Hamilton for ages has closed ... and it's becoming a Starbucks.
09-25-19, 07:17 PM
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If you want a smooth cup of coffee go across the intersection to the donut shop in the Trader Joes shopping center. $1.75 for a large cup. only options are milk and sugar, but the plain black coffee is good without the additives. Donuts are above average, too.
There are some homeless wandering around that area (Brookhurst/Hamilton) and panhandling, but I'm pretty sure most are living in the Fairview and Talbert Parks on the Costa Mesa side of the River. Costa Mesa and Orange County have started a clear-out process for those folks.
