Jon T

I bought a Peugeot PH10 in '84. It's still my N bike. I'm still riding the Helicomatic rear end and still using dt friction shifters. Still using the Lyotard pedals and Christophe toe clips it came with. Does it count as a C&V?
Jon

davester

Thread winner!

RiddleOfSteel

Totally:

Lemond1985

Wildwood 

In post #17 I asked, C&V?? Frameset or Bike? Got no answer. Asked the same question with verbosity, got ridicule.



heck we all know there is no firm answer to what is c&v. just one's silly, meaningless opinion.
Have a dry day!

RobbieTunes

verbosity? I'm having enough problems with obesity.
Congratulations for sending 30 bike nerds back to post #17 and making us re-read that page.

That's like 2 minutes of my life I won't get back.

Wildwood 

Sorry, not my problem.
I restated the question in post just above.
C&V = frameset or bike? (and again, so no one loses life time )

Maybe you're too engaged?

ollo_ollo

Yeah, thanks Wildwood. But, we're just compelled to check it out anyway. I claim another 2 minute loss. Just 1 more obsessive/compulsive bike nerd here... Don

RobbieTunes

I'm just worried that if I die during lovemaking, I'll miss those 2 minutes.
I prefer happy endings.

Wildwood 

That problem is about 95% behind me, so no worries in that regard.
If I passed 2 minutes before riding to the top of Hurricane Ridge, Olympic Peninsula, Washington - that WOULD piss me off.

+1 on happy endings. And on 'lucky through life'. Like mine.

But back on topic = C&V, is it the frameset or the bike? Or, Is a Confente with banana seat and ape hangers (with streamers) Classic???

12boy

Thank you for all of your opinions and the list of the prior times this issue has been posed. Having read through most of the priors and all of this, I am sorry to have raised the question as all these posts reiterate the same points of view. I have an 82 Holdsworth Special that I have swapped the original campy bottom bracket, pedals, seatpost, bars and saddle for new stuff but suppose it certainly no longer vintage and probably not classic due to the new stuff. However, it fits like a glove, works perfectly and is a joy to ride.

curbtender

These guys might be a good audience...

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...i-s-ergos.html

cb400bill

Wildwood 

1982 Holdsworth is more than Classic&Vintage = it's Special.

merziac

No worries, don't apologize for sparking a lively discussion, we live for it, good, bad or otherwise. Anytime you say Holdsworth and its an original it will most certainly be C+V.

And on that note, "pics or it didn't happen".

RobbieTunes

In a nutshell, the most important things.

Road Fan

Agreed, changing parts especially if necessary does not make a C&V bicycle not C&V. Resale may be affected up or down, but a classic is still a classic.

Road Fan

Your interpretation is wrong - there are numerous threads here about roadsters and 3 speeds of that class and era, the much earlier real roadsters (Bobby bikes) like the DL-1 (28" wheels), various forms of club bikes, et cetera. That Sturmey gearset was the mainstay of Raleigh's multigeared products since around 1910 (watch, that's gonna prove wrong), as well as the steel stems, 26" wheels in numerous flavors and the higher end clubmans such as the Rudge Aero Special and Raleigh Super Lentons - 27" wheels, alloy drop bars, aluminum sidepulls, Brooks saddles, and Reynolds 531 frames - the precursors to your Robin Hood.

20" bikes of the vintage have a place to be loved as well. If you read the description line for C&V, this forum includes them, under "musclebikes."

But the popular kids still ride lightweight road bikes, you're correct about that.

madpogue 

^^^^^ Did you miss the post(s) claiming that if it doesn't have downtube shifters, it's not C&V? Not sure how one could "wrong"ly interpret that.

Road Fan

I apologize for the negative tone I took, I should not have done that. I did want to point out that the written and practical scope is quite broad, despite what some folks offer up. I'm also a veteran of Classic Rendezvous which has a much clearer and more retrictive scope. I once suggested here in one of those threads that perhaps we should imitate ... and was shot down using high-explosive tracers. No regrets, I liked and continue to like both forums, and there remains a lot of overlap in membership. But essentialy everything we say here unless we are a Mod or an Admin can be regarded as up for discussion, with civility. It's an open, civil discussion area

No, I did not miss those, but those are not rules, they are opinions of our colleagues, and hence open for debate. In Post 65 this thread one of the site administrators, CB400Bill, gave his opinion that the group errs on the side of inclusiveness, not exclusion. And if anyone is going to bounce "non-believers," he has the authority. But he's also a real-live old bike freak. Did you miss the group subject description at the top of the subforum? "Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more." Nothing in there about downtube shifters. And did you miss the presence of a massive thread on three speeds, "For the love of English three-speeds" which has been going for a number of years, has over 19000 posts and over 1.7 million reads and has presented non-British bikes on occasion? And several other smaller threads on them. Plus track bikes are discussed in C&V, which do not have DT shifters. Plus retro-moderns are discussed, where modern indexing gear trains such as Campy 10 sp triples are joyfully put on vintage steel frames even '50s pieces like Hetchins, and are acclaimed and celebrated.

Anyway, those are my points in detail. CB400Bill is a friend, but he will bounce for misbehavior. I better shut up before he notices.

I really liked your "Fruit flies like a banana" joke! I'm a former English major, I really like word plays like that!

madpogue 

I didn't miss any of the above. The fact remains that there are statements in this thread that reflect a road bias. That isn't a "wrong interpretation".

IIRC, the "time flies / fruit files" quip is attributable to Groucho Marx. A consummate word player - "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."

Steeler_fanatic

I like this definition. Maybe we should vote on posted pictures of bikes

DaleW

Road Fan

Ok, I think that is just because of preponderance - more old roadies than any other type of bike and bike fan, here at least. The road fans talk about what they like and, well this isn't a regulated environment.

Salamandrine 

Yeah, it's just that.

I started off on 3 speeds. I still like them, and I've actually technically owned more 3 speeds than I have road bikes. However, as one slowly rides farther and farther, and morphs into a cycling enthusiast, the usual final destination is road bikes.

Even though I'm one of those guilty or rattling on about road bikes, I certainly welcome posts and discussion about 3 speeds, because I love them too. I'm sure many on this forum have similar feelings.

Coolest 3 speed I ever owned was a purple French made JC Higgins. Never seen another. It was a real beauty; dramatically nicer quality than most JC Higgins branded bikes. It was a ladies frame, but I kept it around for a while just to decorate my loft. (hint, if anyone has one of these, please post pics!)