Urbanbiketech

Hi, I need your SS expertise. Does anyone out there know what the recommended tightening torque is for the nuts on a rear SS wheel on horizontal dropouts? I've searched the web, but I'm not finding anything. I'd like to know so that I can determine whether or not Pitlock skewers can be used on horizontal dropouts at their recommended max torque of about 8ft-lb while still keeping the wheel from moving and loosening the chain. This question was asked to me yesterday, and I couldn't answer. The locking 10mm solid axle bolts will take tons of torque (more than necessary), but the "regular" size sets have a maximum recommended torque.

Thanks!

Urbanbiketech

bump - I'm still looking for the answer to this question. Anyone?

Devolution

Why not tighten down your regular SS rear hub to 8ft-lb and see if it slips?

dirtyphotons

not sure about the tech specs, but rivendell quickbeams all use quick release skewers with fork ends. seems a little sketch to me, but they know a lot more than i do.

also a lot of old touring bikes use qrs on the rear wheel with horizontal dropouts. you'll probably be okay.

Urbanbiketech

I'd love to, but I don't own a bike horizontal dropouts or even a SS bike for that matter. I could try it on regular dropouts, flip the bike upside down and give it the wiggle-treatment, but that's far less scientific that I'd like given that there is a safety perspective to it!

Thanks for the info In that case, I guess the real question is whether the clamping force exerted by 8lb-ft of torque on Pitlock is equal to that generated by a quick-release lever. My knowledge of physics is limited to what I learned in grade 12.

dirtyphotons

i majored in it, but our curriculum was sorely lacking in bike maintenance applications. as far as torque, if you're worried i bet you could go slightly higher than the max recommended torque (they always bring it down a little bit to make the lawyers happy, plus they know that most people don't have a torque wrench laying around)

best of luck.

sivat

According to the park-tool website, shimano reccomends about 21 ft-lbs on their axle bolts, control tech reccomends about 5.

AfterThisNap

pitlocks aren't going to get tight enough in a horizontal slot to hold your wheel in place. It's been tried. The pitlocks are meant, like a normal QR, to hold your axle in a vertical dropout with enough force to keep it from falling downward with cornering/gravity. It's the frame itself that keeps the wheel from moving forward. They just don't allow enough clamping force.

Urbanbiketech

Thanks AfterThisNap!! It's disappointing, but I wanted to know for sure. Thanks to everyone else who contributed here as well.

kilburnfixie

Old thread, I know, but - if the conclusion is that the pitlock isn't enough for horizontal dropouts, is there any fix that would correct this? e.g. could a chain-tensioner (i.e. that just keeps the wheel in place), so that a bolt providing a lesser amount of torque could be used to keep it in place?

In addition to wanting to use a pitlock, I don't want to carry arround a a 2-foot wrench in case of a puncture.

bmwjoe

A pitlock is out as they recommend against it on their website:
I believe the limitation on the Pitlock is the skinny-ass stainless steel skewer. It just does not have the strength to hold the axle still. They warn against tightening it too tight.

In the other hand, the typical fixed gear axel wrench like the 3wrencho
https://ridepdw.com/products/3wrench...t=24674533569#
is less than 6" long. You can get more than enough torque on a solid 10mm axle to hold the axle tight. Back in the day racing bikes had big ass wing nuts on the axles and they had enough torque to hold the axles against racing levels of torque. Throw a 3wrencho or a campy "peanut butter" wrench in your pocket and you are good to go.

kilburnfixie

Thanks. Well maybe I just need to apply a bit more force. I'll give it a go.

But in case that doesn't work (and it seems I'm not the only one in this position) - surely the clamping of the pitlock is done at the point where they meet the dropout: at that point, they can't fix the wheel in place firmly enough. But if the tension keeping the wheel in place is provided by something else, then that shouldn't be a problem. That's why I suggested using a chain tensioner, which is also called a chain tug - I don't mean the spring-type; just something that's inserted into the dropout to keep the axle in place. (I'll try sending a link, but when I last tried I wasn't able to because I hadn't posted enough.)

kilburnfixie

Thinking of Brick Lane's chain tugs:

kilburnfixie

https://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/blb-chain-tugs

Trevtassie

You'd be after something like Surly Tuggnuts https://surlybikes.com/parts/tuggnut

kilburnfixie

Thanks. Yes, that's the kind of thing I'm after. I think the Brick Lane one I posted the link to (I only just graduated to being able to do that) would do the same thing. (And I can pop down to the shop in London.)

1incpa

You'll be fine using the pitlock with a tensioner.
A buddy of mine has been doing that with a disc wheel at the track for years. No problems.
PI

79pmooney

I use track nuts (those 15mm hex nuts that have an incorporated washer available at any store that sells fix gears - bring your hub, threads vary) and tighten with the classic peanut butter wrenches or a Pedros Trixie. So 8-10 inches times say 20 pounds of force (I wrap my PB wrench handles with innertube to spare my hands) = 200 in-lbs = 17 ft-lbs. Been doing this for decades. No, I am not an animal but I do climb almost anything on those bikes. (For many years my wrench was a 6" crescent wrench. That too worked just fine and I was a lot stronger then. The same wrench served me for 15 years.)

Now, the details make a difference. Locknuts with a pattern that serve as teeth help. Bare steel dropouts are much easier to secure than chromed ones. I thought the ti dropouts of my custom would be a challenge, but they are not. I use the same wrenches and force. (And that bike has done some very serious climbing.)

Ben

kilburnfixie

Thanks all. 8" is the maximum length instrument I'd want to carry around with me, preferably much shorter.

So it's good to know that the chain tensioner route option should work - sounds more sensible, even if one can use brute force to tighten enough without it.

JohnDThompson 

Looks like mid-200s to mid-300s inch-pounds (~20-30 foot-pounds):

https://www.parktool.com/assets/img/...elp/torque.pdf

I wonder if those Pitlock skewers are intended to be used with vertical dropouts? 8 foot-pounds is not very much torque.