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Why the LBS are dying out ...

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Why the LBS are dying out ...

Old 04-01-19, 11:24 PM
  #51  
freegeek
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
With so many bikes having hydraulic brakes nowdays, I think that any good reputable bike shop should have a universal brake bleeding kit which fits different brands of brakes.
My thoughts exactly, I just find it weird that they don't have such a basic tool in their workshop inventory, thats why I went to this LBS in the first place thinking that they have such an item. What's next, we can't work on your bike because we have to order a number 8 Allen key.
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Old 04-01-19, 11:29 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I am sympathetic, as I have had bad experiences with a few bike shops. But right now, my nearest shop (15 miles away) is an old-school, small-town shop. These guys may have seen a Di2 bike, but they sure haven't ever worked on one. But for simple things like cable replacement, wheel truing, and etc, they are quick, competent, and cheap. If I ever don't feel like doing those things myself, I drop off my bike -- and sometimes they just ask if I can hang around because they will do the work while I wait. Hell, their rates are so cheap that I sometimes will buy bar tape from them, just because I want to give them more money. A shop like that is gold, baby.

Another shop, further away, is great for more involved stuff. I recently had a bike fitting done as part of the sizing process for a new custom frame that they are procuring and building for me. As part of the fitting on my old bike, the fitter decided that I needed a different stem. The shop owner just found the right one, and handed it over. No charge. I buy these guys lattes when I visit.

I completely get this but this is not a small pop and mom shop we are talking about. They have probably half a million $ in bikes sitting on their sales floor (BMC, Ridley, Bianchi, ...). You can walk out with a 10k BMC road bike but they don't have a $20 bleed kit in their workshop
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Old 04-02-19, 01:37 AM
  #53  
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So ... this very large bike shop, this apparently very profitable bike shop ... is doing it all wrong?

You went to a pizzeria, looking to buy pizza ingredients.

You went to the wrong store for what you needed. You knew that in advance, because of the cassette situation. yet You failed to learn.

Everyon keeps insiting that his o her definition of "bike shop" is correct, and that Actual, Existing, Functioning bike shops which don't meet those criteria are wrong.

I say, the bike shop or any shop, which makes a sufficient profit to meet the needs of the owners, is Right.

If I sell flowers and you want candy, don't blame me.

If I sell bikes and you want bike parts, don't blame me.

If I sell bikes, but will do some maintenance or source some parts, as a favor to a customer ... and that customer gets all pissy because I don't do it Fast enough .... the Customer is wrong. The customer is in the wrong store. yeah, i sell flowers, you want candy. I will send a guy down to the candy store to get candy, and even a greeting card, because you want to send flowers, candy, and a card ... oh, takes too long?

Unless the OP went to "Pedro's Brake-Bleeding Emporium," the customer simply has incorrect expectations.

We have how many threads where we talk about different formats bike shops will need to take to survive in the changing business environment. In fact, in this very thread, we have people Praising bike shops which don't carry cassettes or do repairs ... they sell coffee or camaraderie. Yet This specific bike shop ... and "bike shops" in general, according to some posters, Must be full-stock, full-service bike repair shops as well as bike sales outlets ... and i guess offer craft beers and gourmet coffee, and maybe have art-house films playing in the back room.

A successful business offers what it offers to a sufficient number of customers at an agreeable price for those customers sufficiently often to pay the bills. A successful customer goes to the store which sells the services or merchandise he or she needs.

No one is entitled to have exactly the retail outlets he or she desires, conveniently close and opn at convenient hours, offering exactly the wares that person wants, at a price that person finds pleasing.
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Old 04-02-19, 03:48 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
So ... this very large bike shop, this apparently very profitable bike shop ... is doing it all wrong?
Being big doesn't necessarily equate to being profitable. We just saw one of the largest nationwide bicycle chains crumble.

And, the successful shops deal with customers from carry-out customers to those needing full services. And, hopefully if they are a full service shop, they have cassettes to mount on their customer's bikes.

Are we to believe this shop was selling bikes that they don't have the tools to service?

Hydraulics are hitting most cycling fields hard from road to MTB, perhaps only sparing the department store bikes and fixies.

I suppose the OP didn't say where he was at. There may be parts of Florida that don't sell many 11/32 cassettes. I'm not sure if I define that as road bike gear, but the major manufactures seem to be moving in that direction.

One of the venerable old local bike shops closed about a year after I went in looking for innertubes for my nephew's bike. I pointed out they had a bike for sale that took the tubes on the floor, but no tubes in stock to sell (nor an explanation that they just sold the last one).
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Old 04-02-19, 04:03 AM
  #55  
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@CliffordK this is a chain of for shops .... maybe all Performance and about to close, who knows?

My point remains---the OP's Expectations are meaningless. If the shop told him how long it would take, and did the work correctly in that time frame, he got what he signed up for.

If the shop said, "It will be a week because we are so busy," would he have whined? Basically he went to a shop with a job, the shop said it would take X time, and he said "Okay." Now he is crying.

I don't know why they didn't have a bleed kit---maybe they just sold the last one.
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Old 04-02-19, 04:36 AM
  #56  
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Not having the parts on hand is one setback for the customer. What to do when they don'e have a suitable bike? This past week-end my niece and here family came for a visit from New York. It was her 8 y.o. daughter's birthday and they wanted to get the girl a new bike. We went to three bike shops. Two did not have a suitable bike. The third was closed for renovation. The big surprise for me is that is is Spring and people are riding more as weather warms. Spring comes around every year without fail. Why would a bike shop fail to prepare for their busy season? This was a big disappointment for the whole family as over the last year they have been getting into cycling.
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Old 04-02-19, 04:59 AM
  #57  
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Name one sector where small retailers are doing better than LBS. I don't know about where everyone else lives, but where I am, there are no small bookstores, no independent hardware stores, no independent auto parts stores, etc. Retail spaces are dominated by pizza places, cell phone outlets, nail parlors or just empty. The amazing thing to me is that the LBS have managed to survive in a niche between disposable big box store bikes and internet sales.

LBS closures are nothing new. Turnover is endemic to small businesses. I remember in the 1970s seeing long-established bike stores close. Often, it's just a retirement, others it's just the consequence of a bad decision made in what is basically a low margin business.

BTW, I have service done on my bikes at two LBS in my city. Neither of them minds taking my money for installing parts I've bought online , and one of them absolutely encourages it. He really doesn't make much money on the parts even charging way more than the online price.

And, yeah, OP is legitimately puzzled by why this LBS didn't have a bleed kit at hand. But it's ridiculous to spin that out to a "LBS are dying" trend. Obviously , that store isn't strong on service. That says something about that store and nothing about other ones.

Last edited by livedarklions; 04-02-19 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 04-02-19, 05:21 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
But it's ridiculous to spin that out to a "LBS are dying" trend. Obviously , that store isn't strong on service. That says something about that store and nothing about other ones.
Putting aside the fact that I have my doubts about the legitimacy of this thread, the above is the disconnect that immediately struck me after wasting my time reading the OP.

Perhaps the better way to put it is that the unsupported jump between the two makes me think its purpose was to create yet another contentious "LBS Suck!" thread.

Last edited by indyfabz; 04-02-19 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 04-02-19, 05:39 AM
  #59  
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@Maelochs : Well said. In a market system, you vote with your dollars.
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Old 04-02-19, 06:39 AM
  #60  
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My LBS is great. I can ride in at lunch and they take my bike and fix while I am watching. Price is reasonable and the guys are helpful and entertaining.
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Old 04-02-19, 06:53 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
As for the 11-32 cassette. Ever consider that no one else had wanted to buy one there? Same with the bleed kit. Obviously they had not had a request to bleed Shimano discs.
Not having a particular cassette in stock? OK, understandable, maybe it is something that doesn't move or they just ran out of, shop stock is a changing thing.

Not having a very basic tool required to work on a good number of bikes that are sold today, seemingly sharing it between shops if I am understanding correctly? Not really acceptable.
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Old 04-02-19, 07:03 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by freegeek
[RANT] I try to do as much maintenance work on my bike not because it's cheaper but simply because dealing with a LBS is a frustrating experience. My bike needed some minor stuff done , and when I say minor I really mean minor (new chain + new hydraulic disc hose). Because I didn't have time myself over the weekend I decided to bring my bike to the LBS last week thinking that after the weekend I would have my bike back. My bike is still in the shop because they didn't have a friggin bleeding kit. When I asked if they are serious that my bike is still in the shop because they don't have the $20 Shimano bleeding kit they give me the "annoying customer" look. They told me it will take until the end of the week for the part to arrive (seriously!). I can go online, order and have the damn thing delivered next day. In total my bike will be in the shop for a full week for what is essentially a 30 minutes job. Last time I tried to buy a big ticket item in a LBS was my power pedals (Garmin Vector), they told me it would take 6 weeks (I'm not kidding), I went home, ordered online, had them delivered next day. Both of these experiences are good reminders why I avoid LBS as the plague. [/END RANT]
It sounds like you in fact don’t avoid LBS as the plague because you appear to keep returning to them with your own personal set of expectations.
You must be a lot of fun at a restaurant when the waiter informs you that they 86’ed a menu item
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Old 04-02-19, 07:15 AM
  #63  
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A simple phone call to the LBS ahead of time to ask if they could help you, how long it would take, and how much it would cost, would have saved you the time and frustration you set yourself up for.

Try it, before your next visit to the local axe grinder.

Originally Posted by freegeek
[RANT] I try to do as much maintenance work on my bike not because it's cheaper but simply because dealing with a LBS is a frustrating experience. My bike needed some minor stuff done , and when I say minor I really mean minor (new chain + new hydraulic disc hose). Because I didn't have time myself over the weekend I decided to bring my bike to the LBS last week thinking that after the weekend I would have my bike back. My bike is still in the shop because they didn't have a friggin bleeding kit. When I asked if they are serious that my bike is still in the shop because they don't have the $20 Shimano bleeding kit they give me the "annoying customer" look. They told me it will take until the end of the week for the part to arrive (seriously!). I can go online, order and have the damn thing delivered next day. In total my bike will be in the shop for a full week for what is essentially a 30 minutes job. Last time I tried to buy a big ticket item in a LBS was my power pedals (Garmin Vector), they told me it would take 6 weeks (I'm not kidding), I went home, ordered online, had them delivered next day. Both of these experiences are good reminders why I avoid LBS as the plague. [/END RANT]
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Old 04-02-19, 08:16 AM
  #64  
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I’m seeing a lot of customers walking in with an expectation of inventory, availability and turn-around time, and getting upset when the actual situation isn’t what they decided it ‘should’ be.

If you’re savvy enough to research the spec and pricing for your parts online, then you’re going to be better served by buying the part yourself and taking it to the shop if you’re not inclined to do the actual installation.

The auto parts model works since most auto parts shops are part of national chains or subscribers to a national or regional distribution company. That’s how they move stuff so fast.
There are bike parts distributors, but LBS often only make orders on a weekly (or other period) basis to save on shipping, since they don’t have their own courier ‘runners.’
One of my cars is an early production first-year model, and as such, sometimes parts can be hard to find. I had a brake caliper fail, and not even the 3 Ford dealers in my metro area had one on hand.

While I can’t see why a brake bleed kit wouldn’t be in the shop, some shops are what I call ‘Retail Outposts’ The closest shop to me is one of these. One of 3 or 4 in a local chain, it’s mostly bikes and accessories, with an emphasis on cruisers and fitness bikes. Selling bikes is the main aim here The mechanics’ bay is pretty much a one-bike-at-a-time affair, which is adequate for the mostly recreational riders in this part of town.
If you are looking for the high-end stuff and upgrades, rather than basic repairs, you go to the flagship store about 30 minutes away.

I spec my own parts, and do my own work, so I don’t really use the LBS unless it’s something small I need right now, like quick-links, or tubes, or a single brake cable.
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Old 04-02-19, 08:28 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by freegeek
my thoughts exactly, i just find it weird that they don't have such a basic tool in their workshop inventory, thats why i went to this lbs in the first place thinking that they have such an item. What's next, we can't work on your [campy cranks or french stem] bike because we have to order a number 7 allen key.
fify
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Old 04-02-19, 10:17 AM
  #66  
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Thanks all for your valuable input! If I ever bring my bike back again to a LBS who has a workshop and pretends to work on bikes, I will make sure to do an interview with the bike mechanic to be sure they have a 7,8 and 9 Allen key and the aforementioned $20 bleeding tool so I can be sure he's able to do the basic maintenance for the bikes they are selling on their sales floor. I'll even throw in my multitool and offer to order the bleeding kit online with next day delivery so I can be sure that as a bike mechanic shop, they can do their job. Lesson learned
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Old 04-02-19, 10:19 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
LBS needs to cater to everyone, not just the high-income and not just serious cyclists. If they could stock some mid-range $200 hybrid bikes, for example, then they can be competitive with big box stores.
There is no way they can compete with the big box stores at that price range unless they're doing huge volume. The LBS' overhead per bike is just going to be higher, and the margin on those bikes is tiny. They could try to sell decent $200 hybrids, but the likelihood is that they'd lose money doing so.

The idea that the future of small retail is to "cater to everyone" is ludicrous. They need to focus on things that the big box and internet vendors don't do well, like personalized service, repair and fitting a bike. A lot of them are also keeping their customer base by basically becoming social clubs as well as retail establishments.

You see this with comic book stores as well--a lot of them make it by also being places for game tournaments.

The really small shops I see surviving are the ones that emphasize repair and service, and they might not even sell bikes. Medium sized ones generally have little to nothing available sub-$400, and also emphasize service. Only the biggest ones will have a few bikes in the $200-300 range, way more in higher price ranges, probably as much floor space dedicated to selling gloves as cheap bikes, and a good size service department.
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Old 04-02-19, 10:24 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by freegeek
Thanks all for your valuable input! If I ever bring my bike back again to a LBS who has a workshop and pretends to work on bikes, I will make sure to do an interview with the bike mechanic to be sure they have a 7,8 and 9 Allen key and the aforementioned $20 bleeding tool so I can be sure he's able to do the basic maintenance for the bikes they are selling on their sales floor. I'll even throw in my multitool and offer to order the bleeding kit online with next day delivery so I can be sure that as a bike mechanic shop, they can do their job. Lesson learned

Misplaced sarcasm is sooooo amusing.

You declared an entire industry is dying because one bike shop kind of sucks. That shops vary in quality is a lesson you should have learned years ago. It's not just true about LBS. Grown ups know this.
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Old 04-02-19, 10:25 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
Not having a particular cassette in stock? OK, understandable, maybe it is something that doesn't move or they just ran out of, shop stock is a changing thing.

Not having a very basic tool required to work on a good number of bikes that are sold today, seemingly sharing it between shops if I am understanding correctly? Not really acceptable.
you understand correctly, we are talking about a bleeding kit, its a tool just like an Allen key or a screw driver. According to a lot posters im a difficult person, but I think that a bike mechanic shop should have at least the basic tools. I have the impression that a lot of posters don't have an idea what a bleeding kit is. As a bike shop, if you don't have a bleeding kit in your day to day operations of your maintenance shop, you are simply not able to work on the brakes of the majority of the bikes that are sold today (any hydraulic disc operated brakes).
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Old 04-02-19, 10:30 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Misplaced sarcasm is sooooo amusing.

You declared an entire industry is dying because one bike shop kind of sucks. That shops vary in quality is a lesson you should have learned years ago. It's not just true about LBS. Grown ups know this.
not misplaced at all, there are posters here that are convinced that a standard 11-32 shimano cassette and a shimano bleeding kit are exotic items. Anyways, lessons learned...
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Old 04-02-19, 10:31 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by freegeek
I completely get this but this is not a small pop and mom shop we are talking about. They have probably half a million $ in bikes sitting on their sales floor (BMC, Ridley, Bianchi, ...). You can walk out with a 10k BMC road bike but they don't have a $20 bleed kit in their workshop
My guess would be that the bleed kit walked off or got "borrowed". It is surprising that they don't just keep a couple in stock.


-Matt
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Old 04-02-19, 10:37 AM
  #72  
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A question for anyone "in the know" about modern business: Do dealers of products still have to meet minimum order requirements from distributors in order to get lower-than-retail prices? That's how it used to work. You'd wait until you had $X to order from your distributor and then place an order over the phone after referring to their catalog for part numbers and such. The distributor would traditionally buy directly from manufacturers (or was a manufacturer) and didn't sell to end-users.

That's the only reason I can think of why a LBS (or similar specialty retailer of goods) can't (or won't) have something there tomorrow while we as consumers can by ordering individual items online. I'm guessing they still have to meet a minimum order requirement of dollars or quantity. They could probably order item X from Amazon, just like we as individuals can, but then they would have to pay the retail price.

Just curious if this business model continues from the 20th century, from where I remember it as an employee of both manufacturers and dealers at different times, or everything has changed by now.

Last edited by Squeeze; 04-02-19 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 04-02-19, 10:52 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Squeeze
A question for anyone "in the know" about modern business: Do dealers of products still have to meet minimum order requirements from distributors in order to get lower-than-retail prices? That's how it used to work. You'd wait until you had $X to order from your distributor and then place an order over the phone after referring to their catalog for part numbers and such. The distributor would traditionally buy directly from manufacturers (or was a manufacturer) and didn't sell to end-users.

That's the only reason I can think of why a LBS (or similar specialty retailer of goods) can't (or won't) have something there tomorrow while we as consumers can by ordering individual items online. I'm guessing they still have to meet a minimum order requirement of dollars or quantity. They could probably order item X from Amazon, just like we as individuals can, but then they would have to pay the retail price.

Just curious if this business model continues from the 20th century, from where I remember it as an employee of both manufacturers and dealers at different times, or everything has changed by now.
Interesting question, I wonder that myself. I don't understand the availability issues LBS sometimes have. I gave an example, I was interested in buying Garmin Vector power pedals at an LBS, delivery time was something like 4-6 weeks. I could go online and have them delivered next day. I don't know how it works for LBS but I guess they must be frustrated themselves if they have to give that kind of message to a potential customer knowing that you can go online and have it next day.
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Old 04-02-19, 10:56 AM
  #74  
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@Squeeze---I cannot speak for every shop, but most shops do a weekly--or less frequent--order, I assume to lower shipping and delivery costs, and also to lower load at the factory's warehouse. I also assume the shop Could order from Ebay or Amazon, but I don't know and I am sure if it were done, it would go on the owner's private credit card, not on the shop account---Shimano might get irritated.
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Old 04-02-19, 10:58 AM
  #75  
Wildwood 
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Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

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I think OP and some others need a back-up bike!

instead of one $8,000 bike, May I suggest two $4,000 bikes. Buy them at your LBS, tell the owner of the shop you will want them serviced, too. May you never miss a ride in the future!

First World problems deserve First World solutions! Maybe buy 3 or 4 bikes for back-up insurance. I’m running more than a dozen. Keeps me busy, no time for internet rants.
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