From 14 mph to faster
#76
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: South Carolina low country
Posts: 5
Bikes: 1973 Coventry Eagle, 2016 Mongoose Argus
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
That seems a nice gravel bike; are you still riding in gravel with 28mm road tires?
Having lived near Concord, I suppose that
you might be better served by dual chain rings as on the Jari 1.3 and 1.7...
I am a 1x fan, but ride mostly level terrain. I picked up some speed by changing cassettes
so that most used cog also gives most nearly perfect chainline, with 1 tooth cog differences available either side.
Whether you could obtain that with 2 chain rings for Piedmont terrain is arguable..
As others implied, easing rather than busting thru barriers tends to be more achievable.
1x11drivetrain. I’m thinking a bigger chain ring up front.
Charlotte, NC. No big hills but virtually no level terrain either.
Charlotte, NC. No big hills but virtually no level terrain either.
you might be better served by dual chain rings as on the Jari 1.3 and 1.7...
I am a 1x fan, but ride mostly level terrain. I picked up some speed by changing cassettes
so that most used cog also gives most nearly perfect chainline, with 1 tooth cog differences available either side.
Whether you could obtain that with 2 chain rings for Piedmont terrain is arguable..
As others implied, easing rather than busting thru barriers tends to be more achievable.
#77
Full Member
Conditioning, training, etc - all good stuff, but there is a basic issue. Back when I worked as a bike tech one of the frequent complaints I heard was that their mountain bike was slow. My usual response was to pull out a mountain bike and a 700C hybrid/commuter and show them the difference in the drive train. The mountain bike is geared for climbing and rough terrain - the hybrid is geared to cruise on smooth surfaces. In addition, the rolling resistance of a wider tire with an aggressive tread is considerably higher than the 700C with a road pattern. But, the 700c tire is not good on soft terrain or loose surfaces. Riding at the same cadence in top gear, the 700C will be noticeably quicker than the mountain bike. Neither bike is better - both are excellent in their proper environment. Just pick the right bike for the occasion.
#79
Banned.
Thread Starter
Conditioning, training, etc - all good stuff, but there is a basic issue. Back when I worked as a bike tech one of the frequent complaints I heard was that their mountain bike was slow. My usual response was to pull out a mountain bike and a 700C hybrid/commuter and show them the difference in the drive train. The mountain bike is geared for climbing and rough terrain - the hybrid is geared to cruise on smooth surfaces. In addition, the rolling resistance of a wider tire with an aggressive tread is considerably higher than the 700C with a road pattern. But, the 700c tire is not good on soft terrain or loose surfaces. Riding at the same cadence in top gear, the 700C will be noticeably quicker than the mountain bike. Neither bike is better - both are excellent in their proper environment. Just pick the right bike for the occasion.
#81
Senior Member
This thread is kind of a confidence booster for myself... I've never rode with a group before; Solo I average 14-15 MPH over a 1-1.5 hour ride. I thought I was too slow to be in a group.
(26er hard tail MTB with WTB All Terrains if curious.)
(26er hard tail MTB with WTB All Terrains if curious.)
#83
With a mighty wind
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,546
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 837 Times
in
472 Posts
One day this summer i’m going to ride from Morrison to the top of Mt Evans. That’s 50 miles and will take 5-6 hours. From 5500’ to 14k.
I may reset my speedometer for the ride down. Under 2 hours?
I may reset my speedometer for the ride down. Under 2 hours?
#84
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,620
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3868 Post(s)
Liked 2,559 Times
in
1,574 Posts
If you ask your local bike shops, they may know of rides in your area that aren't geared toward going fast.
#85
Non omnino gravis
I don't think I've ever seen a Strava group activity from any of the local "fast guys" going over about an 18.5mph average. The normal club rides? If they have a 15mph average, they were absolutely smokin' that day. Typically it's 11-13mph.
Problem for me is, I don't want to go 11-13mph, so I'm out there alone every day.
Problem for me is, I don't want to go 11-13mph, so I'm out there alone every day.
#86
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times
in
5,053 Posts
I don't think I've ever seen a Strava group activity from any of the local "fast guys" going over about an 18.5mph average. The normal club rides? If they have a 15mph average, they were absolutely smokin' that day. Typically it's 11-13mph.
Problem for me is, I don't want to go 11-13mph, so I'm out there alone every day.
Problem for me is, I don't want to go 11-13mph, so I'm out there alone every day.
It's also a lot easier to adapt my plans to weather conditions if I don't have to deal with a committee.
By all means, people should try group riding if they think it might be good for them, but shouldn't feel bad if they decide it's not.
#87
Non omnino gravis
Oh, and don't forget-- a group ride has a leader, who generally makes decisions. The local group will cancel if the ground looks like it might even have a chance of getting wet. Then of course the sun comes out and it's dry all day. Same for the scheduling-- they roll at 8am at Saturday morning, no matter what. Thing is, that Saturday it might be 40º at 8am, but 65º at 10am. So I ride at ten-- only having to dress for one temperature, instead of leaving the house in layers.
I guess I just haven't found many local group rides that aren't a big hassle relative to just riding by myself whenever I feel like it. And they certainly wouldn't make me any faster.
I guess I just haven't found many local group rides that aren't a big hassle relative to just riding by myself whenever I feel like it. And they certainly wouldn't make me any faster.
#88
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times
in
5,053 Posts
Oh, and don't forget-- a group ride has a leader, who generally makes decisions. The local group will cancel if the ground looks like it might even have a chance of getting wet. Then of course the sun comes out and it's dry all day. Same for the scheduling-- they roll at 8am at Saturday morning, no matter what. Thing is, that Saturday it might be 40º at 8am, but 65º at 10am. So I ride at ten-- only having to dress for one temperature, instead of leaving the house in layers.
I guess I just haven't found many local group rides that aren't a big hassle relative to just riding by myself whenever I feel like it. And they certainly wouldn't make me any faster.
I guess I just haven't found many local group rides that aren't a big hassle relative to just riding by myself whenever I feel like it. And they certainly wouldn't make me any faster.
I guess we're just lone wolves by nature.
#89
Senior Member
We typicaly do a 20 mile mid week ride and a 30/45 mile ride at the weekends ... be interesting to know if the guys that are going much quicker do considerably more than that.
#90
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,057
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1755 Post(s)
Liked 1,570 Times
in
906 Posts
There's two concepts at odds here......going fast, and being fast.
They're totally different. To go fast you can buy and do things and join the right group rides and pick your terrain well or be a total tool and run every stop sign and light at full speed.
The other way, to actually be fast........ is to use structured training.
Also,
A lot of people throw around numbers, but once you get into following a lot of folks do you realize how relative speed can be. I follow the pros that are on the team our company sponsors, and often they will have training rides only right at 20 or so mph. Sometimes less. But.......they'll average 75 to 100 feet per mile elevation while doing so.
Not to mention, people play games with gps's. Some people screw with autopause speeds and will pause it manually if farting around or something.
I'm going to say among the rides that aren't on TT bikes, that of the 5 or so amateur racers I follow.......it's a coin flip as to whether a solo ride they post will crack 20mph or not.
20mph is also a turning point, power wise, due to how aero works. At, and below 20, the ratio of CRR and CdA isn't so heavy yet on the CdA side. Over 20, it starts to get a lot harder a lot quicker.
If it's flattish with just a couple rollers and nothing to hold up your progress like stop lights......it only takes about 175w or so on a road bike to average right at 20mph.
Just figure out what makes you happy on the bike and work on how to maximize that. Then adopt equipment and training choices that support maximizing that happiness.
They're totally different. To go fast you can buy and do things and join the right group rides and pick your terrain well or be a total tool and run every stop sign and light at full speed.
The other way, to actually be fast........ is to use structured training.
Also,
A lot of people throw around numbers, but once you get into following a lot of folks do you realize how relative speed can be. I follow the pros that are on the team our company sponsors, and often they will have training rides only right at 20 or so mph. Sometimes less. But.......they'll average 75 to 100 feet per mile elevation while doing so.
Not to mention, people play games with gps's. Some people screw with autopause speeds and will pause it manually if farting around or something.
I'm going to say among the rides that aren't on TT bikes, that of the 5 or so amateur racers I follow.......it's a coin flip as to whether a solo ride they post will crack 20mph or not.
20mph is also a turning point, power wise, due to how aero works. At, and below 20, the ratio of CRR and CdA isn't so heavy yet on the CdA side. Over 20, it starts to get a lot harder a lot quicker.
If it's flattish with just a couple rollers and nothing to hold up your progress like stop lights......it only takes about 175w or so on a road bike to average right at 20mph.
Just figure out what makes you happy on the bike and work on how to maximize that. Then adopt equipment and training choices that support maximizing that happiness.
100% true.
#91
Full Member
I have to say what a difference group riding makes. I've done a few but it's usually a small group of 3-4 riders which pushes you to stay with the pack. Sunday I tried for my 1st century in 12 years. Jumped into a group of about 15 riders. It was like night and day. In the pack I was pacing over 20mph with little effort. When I slowed away from the pack I really had to work hard to regain my ground. Wind became a huge factor. Time flies in the pack because you are constantly watching the other bikes around you by mere inches.
I would give it a try as a tool in your toolbox.
I would give it a try as a tool in your toolbox.
#92
Non omnino gravis
Flagrant stereotyping, but a lot of those "fast group guys" are just that-- fast in a group. Get them out on their own, when they have to punch their own hole, and it becomes pretty obvious as to why their Saturday group speed is 18+ and the Wednesday afternoon solo ride is 15mph.
Group riding is great for learning to ride in the pack, and how to behave in close proximity to other bikes. But unless it's an all out A Group hammerfest, you'll put in more work solo, because there's no one there to help out.
Group riding is great for learning to ride in the pack, and how to behave in close proximity to other bikes. But unless it's an all out A Group hammerfest, you'll put in more work solo, because there's no one there to help out.
#93
well hello there
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Point Loma, CA
Posts: 15,430
Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 334 Times
in
206 Posts
I haven't read all the responses and I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but the only sure way of increasing your average speed is by buying a new bike or upgrading all your equipment.
__________________
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
#94
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times
in
349 Posts
Flagrant stereotyping, but a lot of those "fast group guys" are just that-- fast in a group. Get them out on their own, when they have to punch their own hole, and it becomes pretty obvious as to why their Saturday group speed is 18+ and the Wednesday afternoon solo ride is 15mph.
But back to the question, can someone who does a 15mph average get to 20+ solo? Yes you can. I outlined how I did it earlier in the thread.
#95
Banned.
Thread Starter
That seems a nice gravel bike; are you still riding in gravel with 28mm road tires?
Having lived near Concord, I suppose that
you might be better served by dual chain rings as on the Jari 1.3 and 1.7...
I am a 1x fan, but ride mostly level terrain. I picked up some speed by changing cassettes
so that most used cog also gives most nearly perfect chainline, with 1 tooth cog differences available either side.
Whether you could obtain that with 2 chain rings for Piedmont terrain is arguable..
As others implied, easing rather than busting thru barriers tends to be more achievable.
Having lived near Concord, I suppose that
you might be better served by dual chain rings as on the Jari 1.3 and 1.7...
I am a 1x fan, but ride mostly level terrain. I picked up some speed by changing cassettes
so that most used cog also gives most nearly perfect chainline, with 1 tooth cog differences available either side.
Whether you could obtain that with 2 chain rings for Piedmont terrain is arguable..
As others implied, easing rather than busting thru barriers tends to be more achievable.
Some more interval training this week. I can see this helping in the long run. No group rides just yet.
#96
Senior Member
I AVERAGE 17-18mph on my work commute. 12.4 miles in 42-44 minutes. That INCLUDES time spent at traffic lights. My actual riding speed is closer to 20-21mph, but I also ride slower the last mile or two as a 'cool-down'. I ride one of my 24-26-pound 30+yr old lugged steel bikes, loaded with bottle, bag with tool kit, lights, and my change of work clothes -- So figure 30-31 pounds as ridden. Oh, and I'm a 60+ yr old near-Clyde (200-ish pounds). I'm usually riding a 75-85ish gear-inch combo at at 85-90-ish cadence.
My distance or Century cadence is a bit slower as one would expect, maintaining the same cadence but a gear-or two lower. Counting rest stops, my average Century is around 5:45-6:10 of saddle time for a ~15.8-16.8mph pace.
Just this past month, I did my 'birthday ride' (61+ miles) in 4:03 of saddle time (average 15.0 mph) with just two short rest stops as my first 30+ mile ride of the year. Yeah, I'm an out-of-shape old man...
BTW, both of my 'primary' bikes are rolling on 28s. The old Fuji is on 27x1-1/8 and the Miyata is on 700x28.
My distance or Century cadence is a bit slower as one would expect, maintaining the same cadence but a gear-or two lower. Counting rest stops, my average Century is around 5:45-6:10 of saddle time for a ~15.8-16.8mph pace.
Just this past month, I did my 'birthday ride' (61+ miles) in 4:03 of saddle time (average 15.0 mph) with just two short rest stops as my first 30+ mile ride of the year. Yeah, I'm an out-of-shape old man...
BTW, both of my 'primary' bikes are rolling on 28s. The old Fuji is on 27x1-1/8 and the Miyata is on 700x28.
Last edited by Cougrrcj; 05-25-19 at 06:30 PM.
#97
Banned.
Thread Starter
I AVERAGE 17-18mph on my work commute. 12.4 miles in 42-44 minutes. That INCLUDES time spent at traffic lights. My actual riding speed is closer to 20-21mph, but I also ride slower the last mile or two as a 'cool-down'. I ride one of my 24-26-pound 30+yr old lugged steel bikes, loaded with bottle, bag with tool kit, lights, and my change of work clothes -- So figure 30-31 pounds as ridden. Oh, and I'm a 60+ yr old near-Clyde (200-ish pounds). I'm usually riding a 75-85ish gear-inch combo at at 85-90-ish cadence.
My distance or Century cadence is a bit slower as one would expect, maintaining the same cadence but a gear-or two lower. Counting rest stops, my average Century is around 5:45-6:10 of saddle time for a ~15.8-16.8mph pace.
Just this past month, I did my 'birthday ride' (61+ miles) in 4:03 of saddle time (average 15.0 mph) with just two short rest stops as my first 30+ mile ride of the year. Yeah, I'm an out-of-shape old man...
BTW, both of my 'primary' bikes are rolling on 28s. The old Fuji is on 27x1-1/8 and the Miyata is on 700x28.
My distance or Century cadence is a bit slower as one would expect, maintaining the same cadence but a gear-or two lower. Counting rest stops, my average Century is around 5:45-6:10 of saddle time for a ~15.8-16.8mph pace.
Just this past month, I did my 'birthday ride' (61+ miles) in 4:03 of saddle time (average 15.0 mph) with just two short rest stops as my first 30+ mile ride of the year. Yeah, I'm an out-of-shape old man...
BTW, both of my 'primary' bikes are rolling on 28s. The old Fuji is on 27x1-1/8 and the Miyata is on 700x28.
#98
Senior Member
What's a "fast group," even? I'm not sure that I know anyone who considers themselves fast. A fast group seems to be a ride that a rider has a hard time hanging with.
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times
in
349 Posts
Fast group in my area is defined as rolling between 20-22 mph on the flats, but hitting 23-25 is not uncommon in areas. Usually it’s defined by pace groups: C, B, and A. C= 12-14 mph, B = 15-17, and A= 19+. Because of the variation of abilities at 19+ mph, it’s helpful to define the rolling parameters because an “A” ride can mean different things to people because there is no upper ceiling on speed. It’s not fun for someone who is only capable of rolling 19-20 and the rest of the group is sustaining at 22+ And I wouldn’t blame them.
#100
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Around here the A ride is pretty much all P123. It averages over 25 including some neutral sections. Depending on the wind and who shows up, there will often be longish sections over 30mph. https://www.strava.com/segments/12576615
B ride is mostly racers plus riders who used to race, riders who are thinking about racing, 50+ masters racers, and juniors.
B ride is mostly racers plus riders who used to race, riders who are thinking about racing, 50+ masters racers, and juniors.
Last edited by caloso; 05-26-19 at 03:34 PM.