Groasters

I'm another longtime daytime flashing lights advocate but I think there's a lot more that many cyclists can do from a self-preservation viewpoint, which has been alluded to above, outside of being more visible.

If you always imagine the worst is about to happen, that's not a bad starting point. Almost of my riding is rural, often on winding and narrow roads. In these situations the idea of taking a dominant position is often nonsense and potentially lethal if a driver comes tearing round the next blind bend or is overtaking a cyclist coming towards you. Similarly it's best to assume that (especially coming downhill at speed) round that next bend is a slippy muddy bit or a gravel patch or a tractor pulling out of the field or a driver being blinded by a low sun, or whatever. always try to have space and time for evasive action.

As long as you're constantly preparing for the worst, riding defensively and assuming you're invisible to drivers unless you have direct eye contact, regardless of what colour your jacket is or how flashy your lights are, then you have a better chance of surviving to ride another day.

seypat

Well said.

Kapusta

I’ve switched to a pulsing tail light at night.

I don’t see it as an advantage to disorient and blind a driver with a flashing strobe at night.

seypat

As I said earlier in the thread, if you're going to become a Michael Knight/David Hasselhoff, this is the way to be seen. You can wear it in any conditions with all types of clothing. It works.

https://www.noxgear.com/tracer2

terrymorse 

This seems to be an opinion. Got any evidence to support it?

I have not found any evidence that a flashing light either disorients or blinds a driver.

Kapusta

Uh… my own experience driving and passing cyclists with flashing strobes at night.

Note I specified flashing strobe, not just a blinking light.

terrymorse 

Thanks, but I was looking for a published study.

Strobe, flash, blink -- synonyms.

Rick_D

These are what I've used the past year, front and back. They switch on automatically, cycle from steady to pulse and back automatically, and are reactive to conditions. You can get a feel for the mode cycle in the video, what it doesn't show well is the sunlight to dim progression.

If I were riding after dark and needed pavement illumination, I would add a strong steady light for that and leave the Vya in place.

softreset

This was the only published study I could find that was covered such a topic but not specifically around cyclists.

https://www.respondersafety.com/Down...5-1e4cdfce5229

Kapusta

No, they do not mean the same thing.

A strobe is a type of flash or blink, but not all flashes and blinks are strobes. Do you need a Venn Digram?

Do you seriously need to see a study to know that very bright lights at night can make it hard to see? Why do you think cars have low beams?

terrymorse 

Let's ask our soon-to-be overlord and master, ChatGPT:

Q: Is a regularly flashing light a strobe light?

ChatGPT: Yes, a regularly flashing light is commonly referred to as a strobe light. Strobe lights are designed to produce regular, controlled flashes of light. These lights are often used in various applications, including photography, entertainment, emergency vehicles, and industrial settings.

Q: Is a regularly blinking light a strobe light?

ChatGPT: A regularly blinking light is similar to a strobe light in that it produces repetitive flashes. However, a "strobe light" often implies a more controlled and precise flashing pattern.

Verdict: Synonymous, or very close to it.

seypat

Come on guys, this is turning into a chain lube/disc vs rim brakes type thread.

Kapusta

Congratulations on figuring out how to use ChatGPT to make you dumber.

You of course ignored the part where they mentioned strobes being used for photography and emergency vehicles. In other words, very bright, intensly bright yet brief flashes.

What is really incredible is that even after reiterating and making perfectly clear what I was referring to, you continue to hammer this utterly asinine (and now irrelevant) point.

terrymorse 

Getting a little heated here. How about dialing it back 20% or so?

Back to the subject, there is still the stated opinion (or "personal experience") that "strobe" (aka "blinking" or "flashing") bike lights are disorienting, as if it were fact, while offering no supporting evidence.

I tend to take such opinions for what they are worth. But that's me.

Kapusta

Are you still insisting that a strobe is NOT a very bright light?

Or are you still claiming that a very bright light cannot make it hard to see at night?

terrymorse 

I'm stating that your assertion that blinking bike lights are disorienting lacks supporting evidence.

Kapusta

My assertion was that strobes (intensely bright flashes) can be disorienting or blinding.

And the supporting evidence is experience.

So again I ask, which part are you disputing: that a strobe is an intensely bright flash, or that intensely bright flashes can make it hard to see at night?

Why are you continuing on like this? What’s in it for you?

Rick_D

Will cautiously note that "strobe" once commonly described xenon tube flashers which can, indeed, be extremely bright to the point of blinding. Blinkers, of whatever incandescent tech, didn't match them in power or duration/frequency.

"Strobing" LED lights are gaining strength as they become brighter and more efficient, still, I see very few at xenon-tube levels.
That said some are quite powerful and aimed incorrectly can do a number at least on my eyeballs when oncoming after dark. Worse yet if it's raining. Pulsing is much preferable to blinking, vote my eyeballs. And whichever they are, aim them properly please.

terrymorse 

Here's why I persist:

Because I started this thread with evidence from a scientific study.
Because it's a good idea to make decisions based on good evidence.
Because not all evidence has the same quality.
Because a personal opinion or anecdote is very low quality evidence.

Kapusta

Do you need to read a scientific study to tell you that hitting your finger with a hammer hurts? No, you most likely have at some point learned from experience.

Likewise, being blinded by an intensely bright flashing (AKA strobe) rear bike light while driving (on numerous occasions) is all the evidence I need to know that an intensely bright flashing (AKA strobe) rear bike light can blind a driver.

I ask once again: are you questioning the assertion that a very bright light in your eyes can make it hard to see at night?

And if you are questioning this assertion, I ask once again: why do you think cars come with a low beam setting that you are expected to use when approaching an oncoming vehicle?

terrymorse 

Kapusta You’ve stated your opinion that you don’t like bright blinking light on bicycles. Understood, thank you.

Let’s move on now.

Bob Ross

My wife bought one of those for me several years ago. I will not deny that it indeed "works" ...i.e., you will almost assuredly "be seen"
I've had a number of people -- drivers, pedestrians, fellow cyclists -- pull up next to me and ask what it is and where I got it.

I would however add this caveat to your assertion that "You can wear it in any conditions with all types of clothing"
Yes, you can certainly wear it...but it is really effing uncomfortable unless you are dramatically underdressed for the current temps. The Tracer is way too hot to be practical.

Despite it consisting of mostly air -- plus a couple of thin plastic LED (or fiber optic?)-filled tubes, a fabric strap, and a plastic enclosure for the batteries and brains -- the fabric strap and plastic enclosure prevent any air circulation, sweat evaporation, or passive cooling, such that you overheat ridiculously quickly. The net effect is as if I'm wearing an entirely extra layer -- a heavy layer at that -- on my torso. So for winter riding, I have to forego the vest or jacket if I'm going to wear the Tracer harness. In the summer I have to forego a base layer...assuming it's even moderate enough temperature-wise to necessitate a base layer. If it's one of those hot humid short-sleeve-jersey-only summer nights, I can't wear the tracer at all (because I'm not gonna ride shirtless).

In short: Clever idea, crappy execution.

Kapusta

No, that is not what I said.

I said I do not like strobing (i.e., intensely bright flashing) rear lights.

And you have stated the incorrect assertion that “strobe” and “blinking” are identical and interchangeable terms. They are not

And what’s truly rich is that while demanding a scientific study to back up my assertion that intensely bright lights can blind you at night, you are using ChatGPT as a source for your claim about the meaning of “Strobe” (and not even understanding the answers it was giving you).

Further, you continued this argument even after I made clear what I meant by the term “strobe”.

Yes, let’s move on

seypat

It's a 2" strap, some thin plastic tubes and a 4 inchish battery holder. If you find that extremely uncomfortable, how do you wear a jersey? What about a race fit jersey or a camelback? How do you put anything in your jersey pockets? Anything in your jersey pockets restricts air flow/hangs heavier than the plactic battery area. That's my opinion of course. If it doesn't work for you though, it doesn't.

Bob Ross

Have you actually tried riding while wearing one of these Tracer harnesses, or is your opinion based on conjecture?