Ti Randonneuse
03-28-18, 06:57 AM
#26
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Got the Bike!
I ended up getting the Litespeed Cherohala SE in a medium frame with a 30mm head tube extender and Ultegra mechanical components with hydraulic disc brakes and a 34-11 cassette. It rides like a dream and climbs well. I added PDW City Full Metal Fenders with Fenderbot tail light, Giant CF bottle cages, PDW Magic Flute mini-pump/CO2 inflator, Arkel handlebar bag mounts, Shimano A-600 pedals in black, and two Cateye Omni-3 tail lights. With the accessories, the bike weighs a tad under 24 lb. I have a Schmidt Edelux II and SONdelux generator hub on order. I will post pictures once I figure out how.
03-28-18, 12:44 PM
#27
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Litespeed Cherohala SE Pics
Thanks for the help Eric! Here are the pics:
03-28-18, 02:49 PM
#28
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Does your bar bag interfere with your shifting?
Those fender stays look pretty massive.
Overall it looks very nice. Congrats.
Those fender stays look pretty massive.
Overall it looks very nice. Congrats.
03-28-18, 05:33 PM
#29
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Even with snacks in the side net pockets of the large Arkel handlebar bag, there is no contact with the STI shifters.
05-06-18, 05:50 PM
#30
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Test Ride
Well I logged my first 400 a week ago. The generator lighting system with Schmidt SON generator and Edelux II light mounted on the fork crown were amazing during the night. I got a chance to test the fenders a couple of days ago when I got caught in a downpour. I added a Sinewave Cycles Revolution USB charger. It causes my iPhone to chime and makes my Garmin want to turn off as it cycles on and off, so I will probably use it to charge batteries. I am looking forward to taking on a 600K in the Shenandoahs next weekend.
Litespeed Cherohala SE w/ PDW fenders, Arkel handlebar bag, Giant CF bottle cages, PDW Fenderbot tail light, Schmidt SON generator, Edelux II headlight, and Sinewave Reactor USB charger
Litespeed Cherohala SE w/ PDW fenders, Arkel handlebar bag, Giant CF bottle cages, PDW Fenderbot tail light, Schmidt SON generator, Edelux II headlight, and Sinewave Reactor USB charger
05-07-18, 11:40 AM
#31
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Sounds like you are pretty happy with the bike.
I find that a pass through cache battery is needed with some devices when I use my Sinewave charger to charge my Garmin 64 GPS. The battery that I use as the pass through cache battery is no longer sold so I can't make a suggestion on what to buy. If you are not familiar with the concept of a pass through cache battery, it is described rather well here:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...fer-batteries/
But I found that the Goal Zero Flip 10 batteries described in that article do not work well with my Garmin 64, so I have no idea if they will work with your phone or your Garmin.
Or, like you said, use it to charge your battery pack.
Addendum, I just looked harder at that website, it used to recommend the Goal Zero batteries, but it no longer does. Interesting.
I find that a pass through cache battery is needed with some devices when I use my Sinewave charger to charge my Garmin 64 GPS. The battery that I use as the pass through cache battery is no longer sold so I can't make a suggestion on what to buy. If you are not familiar with the concept of a pass through cache battery, it is described rather well here:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...fer-batteries/
But I found that the Goal Zero Flip 10 batteries described in that article do not work well with my Garmin 64, so I have no idea if they will work with your phone or your Garmin.
Or, like you said, use it to charge your battery pack.
Addendum, I just looked harder at that website, it used to recommend the Goal Zero batteries, but it no longer does. Interesting.
05-07-18, 02:09 PM
#32
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Bikes: 650b traditional rando, 700c SS rando, 700c fast rando..... plus a mountain, folder, and retired urban track in the basement
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Looking great! I meant to take a look and chat more at the flèche finish. Everyone seemed to have new steeds (I'm looking at you too, @rhm).
Does the handlebar-mounted bag make handling weird? I used to have that set-up on my first few rando bikes, and the high-up bars seemed to exacerbate funky steering.
Titanium would be cool, maybe one day....
Does the handlebar-mounted bag make handling weird? I used to have that set-up on my first few rando bikes, and the high-up bars seemed to exacerbate funky steering.
Titanium would be cool, maybe one day....
05-07-18, 04:13 PM
#33
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That's the way his other bikes are set up, so he doesn't know any better. But in all seriousness, I think we all have a different level of tolerance for weight on the handlebars. I used to ride my racing bike with a handlebar bag like that and it never bothered me. Even my current rando bag is not ideal, not enough fork rake, so the weight is too far out from the steering axis. I'm sure I would like more weight to be behind the axle, but I have yet to build a longer rake fork. Maybe this week
05-07-18, 06:47 PM
#34
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I try to keep my handlebar bag as low as practical and as close to the steerer tube (steering axis) as practical. On all my bikes that have a handlebar bag, I use a second stem or something similar.
A good example of what I am talking about is my Lynskey, photo attached. This is the only bike I have where I used an adjustable stem for the bar bag bracket, but it worked out great for lowering the bar bag and pulling it a bit closer to the steering axis. A short piece of clear PVC pipe is used between the second stem and the bar bag bracket, I did not have a spare handlebar that I wanted to cut down for that purpose. I have been using that piece of PVC pipe now for over five years, so it has demonstrated that it will last.
The lid of my bar bag is under part of my GPS, but it is not that inconvenient so I decided not to make any changes.
A good example of what I am talking about is my Lynskey, photo attached. This is the only bike I have where I used an adjustable stem for the bar bag bracket, but it worked out great for lowering the bar bag and pulling it a bit closer to the steering axis. A short piece of clear PVC pipe is used between the second stem and the bar bag bracket, I did not have a spare handlebar that I wanted to cut down for that purpose. I have been using that piece of PVC pipe now for over five years, so it has demonstrated that it will last.
The lid of my bar bag is under part of my GPS, but it is not that inconvenient so I decided not to make any changes.
05-08-18, 10:27 AM
#35
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...Everyone seemed to have new steeds (I'm looking at you too, @rhm)....
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-frame-15.html
I haven't updated that thread; perhaps I'll get to it soon(ish). But I rode this bike on the DC fleche, PA 300k randonnee, PA fleche, and last weekend the PA 400k randonnee. I'm gradually tweaking the setup; during the last two months, I've changed the brakes, the saddle, the stem, the front wheel... on Saturday's randonnee I decided to flip the stem over (turning a 17 degree drop to 17 degree rise, thus raising the handlebar by 35 mm). I'll try it that way on the 600k, less than two weeks away.
I realize the question about the handlebar bag wasn't addressed to me, but I am extremely pleased with the way this bike handles with a loaded front bag. It does not shimmy at all. I can control the bike with a very light touch, fingers on the top of the bar and thumb on the stem. I can ride no-hands, though that's easier when the bag isn't too heavily loaded.
Undecided whether I'd call the bike "slow." I am not riding as fast this year as I did last year, but that is to some degree a conscious choice.
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05-14-18, 09:50 AM
#36
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Sounds like you are pretty happy with the bike.
I find that a pass through cache battery is needed with some devices when I use my Sinewave charger to charge my Garmin 64 GPS. The battery that I use as the pass through cache battery is no longer sold so I can't make a suggestion on what to buy. If you are not familiar with the concept of a pass through cache battery, it is described rather well here:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...fer-batteries/
But I found that the Goal Zero Flip 10 batteries described in that article do not work well with my Garmin 64, so I have no idea if they will work with your phone or your Garmin.
Or, like you said, use it to charge your battery pack.
Addendum, I just looked harder at that website, it used to recommend the Goal Zero batteries, but it no longer does. Interesting.
I find that a pass through cache battery is needed with some devices when I use my Sinewave charger to charge my Garmin 64 GPS. The battery that I use as the pass through cache battery is no longer sold so I can't make a suggestion on what to buy. If you are not familiar with the concept of a pass through cache battery, it is described rather well here:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-dy...fer-batteries/
But I found that the Goal Zero Flip 10 batteries described in that article do not work well with my Garmin 64, so I have no idea if they will work with your phone or your Garmin.
Or, like you said, use it to charge your battery pack.
Addendum, I just looked harder at that website, it used to recommend the Goal Zero batteries, but it no longer does. Interesting.
05-14-18, 10:20 AM
#37
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Thread Starter
Looking great! I meant to take a look and chat more at the flèche finish. Everyone seemed to have new steeds (I'm looking at you too, @rhm).
Does the handlebar-mounted bag make handling weird? I used to have that set-up on my first few rando bikes, and the high-up bars seemed to exacerbate funky steering.
Titanium would be cool, maybe one day....
Does the handlebar-mounted bag make handling weird? I used to have that set-up on my first few rando bikes, and the high-up bars seemed to exacerbate funky steering.
Titanium would be cool, maybe one day....
The bag does not seem to affect handling at all. I ride with and without the bag and cannot tell the difference while riding. Riding one handed is not a problem. I am too damn old and fragile to ride "no hands" at this point. That said, I do not store tools, tires, batteries, or other heavy stuff in the handlebar bag. I store batteries on my frame bags and tools in the seat canister attached to my Dill Pickle Gear medium saddle bag. BTW, I took my new Dill Pickle Gear saddle bag system on the 600 and loved it-truly a triumph in design and workmanship.
05-14-18, 05:16 PM
#38
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I can't see a properly designed pass-through circuit hurting the batteries much. Would depend on how often the battery got discharged during a charging cycle, and if it's a lot of current. I don't think a garmin or a phone would be particularly aggressive about discharging the battery, and that can be controlled by the battery. I have noticed that Anker doesn't seem to have pass-through any more. I suspect they didn't want to do the engineering to make it work well. There are a lot of scammers in the phone charger battery business nowadays, I'm sure there is someone promising pass-through that doesn't actually do it very well.
05-14-18, 05:24 PM
#39
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You probably already decided on titanium as a material and don't want to hear this but...
Yes, Ti bikes sound good on paper: It's half the density of steel, so a Ti bike should be lighter. Unfortunately its stiffness (Young's modulus) is also only half that of steel. If you were to increase the wall thickness to allow for this, there would be no weight advantage. So to get any weight savings at all, you got to go to oversize tubes with thinner walls, which then get dinged more easily. Also, you can't use oversize tubes in certain places, like chain stays where space is limited between the cranks and the tires.
It's much more difficult to build Ti well than it is with steel and it shows. Three guys I know who ride Ti bikes have suffered cracked frames and either had to get them replaced or re-welded (that's about half the people I know who ride Ti bikes). I know a few people who wrote off carbon frames after collisions. I know one person who destroyed a steel frame in a head on collision with an obstacle but none who lost one through metal fatigue or rust. Even though Ti is not supposed to have corrosion issues, in practice I think most steel frames will outlive most Ti frames, simply because of the lower incidence of manufacturing defects.
If you still want to go for a Ti bike, get a good one. With Ti it does not pay to hunt for bargains.
Yes, Ti bikes sound good on paper: It's half the density of steel, so a Ti bike should be lighter. Unfortunately its stiffness (Young's modulus) is also only half that of steel. If you were to increase the wall thickness to allow for this, there would be no weight advantage. So to get any weight savings at all, you got to go to oversize tubes with thinner walls, which then get dinged more easily. Also, you can't use oversize tubes in certain places, like chain stays where space is limited between the cranks and the tires.
It's much more difficult to build Ti well than it is with steel and it shows. Three guys I know who ride Ti bikes have suffered cracked frames and either had to get them replaced or re-welded (that's about half the people I know who ride Ti bikes). I know a few people who wrote off carbon frames after collisions. I know one person who destroyed a steel frame in a head on collision with an obstacle but none who lost one through metal fatigue or rust. Even though Ti is not supposed to have corrosion issues, in practice I think most steel frames will outlive most Ti frames, simply because of the lower incidence of manufacturing defects.
If you still want to go for a Ti bike, get a good one. With Ti it does not pay to hunt for bargains.
What leads you to that conclusion?
05-22-18, 01:34 AM
#40
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No, I said no such thing. It's your own interpretation of the facts that I pointed out about bike materials.
05-22-18, 06:05 PM
#41
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My understanding is that Ti lower stiffness means it is harder to dent than similar thickness steel because it can flex further before plastic deformation.
05-23-18, 03:53 AM
#42
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Please note that I'm not claiming that titanium does not offer any advantages over steel. However it's not as simple as a ti frame being half the weight of a steel frame of similar performance simply because the metal is half as dense. To get the most out of titanium you have to carefully optimize tube diameter and wall thickness. Both welding and cutting are more difficult. Not every builder gets that right.
05-23-18, 05:05 AM
#43
don't try this at home.
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The PDW fenders are great. Easy to install, lightweight, and no rattles.
I mounted my PDW front fender with the tab on the front of the fork, to rotate the fender forward. I used a longer bolt and a larger washer to cover the wider fender hole at the back. And I got a 3/8 inch tall nylon spacer at the hardware store, from their bolts and fittings drawers. A wrap of tape makes it stay snug in the countersunk fender hole on the back side of the fork. Then the fender bolt stays centered in the hole.
I mounted my PDW front fender with the tab on the front of the fork, to rotate the fender forward. I used a longer bolt and a larger washer to cover the wider fender hole at the back. And I got a 3/8 inch tall nylon spacer at the hardware store, from their bolts and fittings drawers. A wrap of tape makes it stay snug in the countersunk fender hole on the back side of the fork. Then the fender bolt stays centered in the hole.
05-23-18, 06:37 AM
#44
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yeah, they look nice. I was thinking about getting some after I saw itrod's fenders.
05-23-18, 09:28 AM
#45
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While it's true that the less stiff material will flex further than the stiffer material on an impact of similar energy, it's the ultimate tensile strength that determines if a given impact will lead to plastic deformation (i.e. permanent shape change). Titanium is about half as stiff as iron/steel, while yield strength (which varies across a wide range according to alloying and heat treatment) covers a similar range. More specifically, 3AL-2.5V titanium in annealed condition has a very similar ultimate tensile strength to 4130 (cro-moly) that has been normalized.
Please note that I'm not claiming that titanium does not offer any advantages over steel. However it's not as simple as a ti frame being half the weight of a steel frame of similar performance simply because the metal is half as dense. To get the most out of titanium you have to carefully optimize tube diameter and wall thickness. Both welding and cutting are more difficult. Not every builder gets that right.
Please note that I'm not claiming that titanium does not offer any advantages over steel. However it's not as simple as a ti frame being half the weight of a steel frame of similar performance simply because the metal is half as dense. To get the most out of titanium you have to carefully optimize tube diameter and wall thickness. Both welding and cutting are more difficult. Not every builder gets that right.
I currently have 4 ti bikes, and owned another 2 at one time. All them were made in the '90s, and none have failed. I was the service manager at a Serotta and Seven dealer - I saw one cracked Ti frame during my time there, and none at previous Litespeed and IF dealers I worked for. I did see a number of cracked steel frames.The failure rate of Ti is not high.
05-23-18, 12:27 PM
#46
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ya know, materials wars are so passe I might fall asleep before I finish this post.
05-23-18, 05:51 PM
#48
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really? Are you engineers?
05-23-18, 09:24 PM
#50
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