Team Ineos is finished!
09-18-20, 01:13 AM
#52
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,316
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
you don't expect results for them, only the team leader. and then you get reminded how good they are. really nice to see them stretch their wings because
they are all great riders. same with dumou and kuss and wout.
Likes For diphthong:
09-18-20, 02:38 AM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
yah...i think sivakov, kwiatkowski and carapaz reopened some eyes in the last few days. it gets easy when you know guys will be super-domestiques and
you don't expect results for them, only the team leader. and then you get reminded how good they are. really nice to see them stretch their wings because
they are all great riders. same with dumou and kuss and wout.
you don't expect results for them, only the team leader. and then you get reminded how good they are. really nice to see them stretch their wings because
they are all great riders. same with dumou and kuss and wout.
TJV was setting pace all the time. Ineos could have just sat on them and then be there on climbs for Bernal. But time and time again he lost all helpers and was alone way before Roglic was. Which is shown by how far up Dumoulin and even Kuss were. But even WVA was setting insane pace on multiple stages, which actually prompted Bernal's helpers to drop.
09-18-20, 02:47 AM
#54
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,316
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
They (sivakov, kwiatkowski, carapaz) are good riders but are they super domestiques?
TJV was setting pace all the time. Ineos could have just sat on them and then be there on climbs for Bernal. But time and time again he lost all helpers and was alone way before Roglic was. Which is shown by how far up Dumoulin and even Kuss were. But even WVA was setting insane pace on multiple stages, which actually prompted Bernal's helpers to drop.
TJV was setting pace all the time. Ineos could have just sat on them and then be there on climbs for Bernal. But time and time again he lost all helpers and was alone way before Roglic was. Which is shown by how far up Dumoulin and even Kuss were. But even WVA was setting insane pace on multiple stages, which actually prompted Bernal's helpers to drop.
world champ along with a decent palmares. sivakov is young and talented but has proven his worth after a hard crash by finishing near the bottom of the standings for a week and now
animating the proceedings and impressing in the last week. it's only a matter of time before he bounces and rides as a gt leader somewhere else. tell me a team (including team jv)
that wouldn't like to have any or all of these three riders...
to me...super-domestiques are those that could ride or have ridden for themselves and achieve(d) decent to excellent results in other teams but cho(o)se (for big money,
promise of leading a gt, other considerations) to ride for someone else. occasionally, it's in recovering from illness/injury or just younger than expected.
we've got a bleepload of young talent currently.
to me, dumou, kuss and wout fall into the same category for this tour. dumou still is a gt contender if he rides a gt. for wout and kuss, the sky is the limit.
kuss has great climbing talent and i can see him taking a giro or vuelta or a future tdf like this one with only a mtn tt vs a team tt and/or individual flat/rolling tt.
where would wout be on the gc if he were riding for any choice of teams without a rider in the top ten of the gc?
if thomas and froomie had ridden for ineos this tour would they both be considered super-domestiques?
i'd say so since both have tdf victories with froomie having taken a giro and vuelta as well not to mention other notable successes.
landa was a super-domestique for sky/ineos until this year. if bora still had sam bennett, ackermann and sagan and two of them rode the tdf with one designated
as the sprint/green jersey leader, i'd consider the non-leader as a super-domestique since they would still clearly be capable on their own. esp sagan.
and yah, as i posted here #39 , team jv brought it in historic fashion. they are definitely "setting insane pace on multiple stages." doesn't mean ineos doesn't have
some pretty decent weapons. they should have just swapped leadership with bernal and carapaz and (not saying ineos would be in the lead) carapaz likely would have been
a podium contender. i like lopez and he repeatedly tries to animate (usually tries too hard and drops himself but absolutely nailed it on s 17) but i'd take carapaz vs lopez
every day of the week. buchmann from bora and bernal were both injured during the dauphiné. buchmann hung tough on the gc for a while and bernal hung around even longer.
which do you think would have lasted longer if they switched teams? thinking team ineos and their single-minded approach and abilities kept bernal in the game
(for better or worse) a lot longer than he should have been.
Last edited by diphthong; 09-18-20 at 04:00 AM.
09-18-20, 07:52 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
Carapaz lost way too much time in week 1 and 2 when he wasn't fit yet - he was training to be on form for the Giro after all, not the Tour. He would never have been a serious GC contender.
09-19-20, 01:48 AM
#56
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,316
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
maybe the team could have kept carapaz from early meltdown but there were some hard stages in the first half of the race when he was acclimating to tdf pace.
you're likely right that ineos wouldn't have gotten farther with carapaz vs bernal. in hindsight, carapaz is one of the strongest riders in the last week tho.
shall be interesting now to see how he and bernal slot into the nearly upon us giro and vuelta with thomas and froomie.
