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'Nother 2x11 Conversion Thread

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'Nother 2x11 Conversion Thread

Old 09-20-20, 11:35 AM
  #1  
Danhedonia
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'Nother 2x11 Conversion Thread

I have a 2x9 drivetrain on a mid-00's Giant TCR-1. The brifters are heavily worn and the rest of the drivetrain has had a lot of miles put on. For a few reasons, I want to transition to 2x11, and so I have acquired/purchased ...

- Ultegra 8k mech brifters
- Ultegra 8k FD
- Ultegra 8k RD (GS)
- 105 11-28t cassette

All are marked 11-speed. Stock wheelset (Elite rims; unsure of hubs).

Should this be a simple matter of install?
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Old 09-20-20, 11:44 AM
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You need an 11 spd chain and the chances are the hub will not take an 11 spd cassette. You will know if it has a space of 1.8mm on the cassette. You need brakes too the pull won't be the same and really a good option to upgrade. So once you the the wheel figured it just a matter of swapping it all out.
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Old 09-20-20, 10:42 PM
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Thanks deacon mark ! So, should I just put the 11 speed cassette on the wheel, and ... what do I look for, then?

I am not in love with the wheelset, so need a new wheel won't break my heart.

Could I wait on the brakes? It may sound odd, but I don't use brakes very often on this particular bike (training bike, uncrowded route, not a lot of stops and very flat).

I have an appropriate (11 speed width) chain.,
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Old 09-21-20, 05:43 AM
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You will know if you need a new rear wheel if the new 11 speed cassette doesn’t fit on the old wheel… You can put it on, but there won’t be enough threads to firmly attach the lock ring.

I doubt that you will need new brake calipers.
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Old 09-21-20, 11:11 AM
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With the GS mech, get the 11-34 cassette, It will fit your wheel. You will want a new chainset as well as the 9spd spacing is much wider than 11spd.
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Old 09-21-20, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
Could I wait on the brakes? It may sound odd, but I don't use brakes very often on this particular bike (training bike, uncrowded route, not a lot of stops and very flat).
,
The problem you will find with your current brake callipers is that it will require more effort to stop. Your new brake levers have less mechanical advantage than the old ones and should be mated with the newer brake callipers designed for them
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Old 09-21-20, 12:40 PM
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Thanks to all. I'll try putting the 11-speed cassette on soon and see how that goes.

Re: the brakes. Well ... not sure what to say. I don't have a hard time stopping, and don't often use the brakes on road bikes. And I think that's more about my routes than me: they are very bike-friendly, have no/few stops and/or traffic, and one of them is flat as a pancake (200 feet of vertical in 33 miles).

So: I could see how it goes with the current calipers and switch out if I need to, later, correct?

For the switch outs, I'm going to take it to a local mech. I'm terrible with cables and nuanced work. But I can figure out the cassette no prob.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hounslow View Post
With the GS mech, get the 11-34 cassette, It will fit your wheel. You will want a new chainset as well as the 9spd spacing is much wider than 11spd.
Yep, I forgot: that is the lone 11sp Shimano cassette that will fit on an older freehub.

Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
The problem you will find with your current brake callipers is that it will require more effort to stop. Your new brake levers have less mechanical advantage than the old ones and should be mated with the newer brake callipers designed for them
Interesting. Guess I was wrong about that.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:47 PM
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Just to be clear (cuz I'm going to try it this evening): if I can get the cassette onto the wheel and the lockring threads and tightens, I'm OK?
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Old 09-21-20, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
Just to be clear (cuz I'm going to try it this evening): if I can get the cassette onto the wheel and the lockring threads and tightens, I'm OK?
That's my own impression but I don't have a lot of experience with cassettes. I used the lockring from an off brand 8 spd cassette to secure an 11 spd shimano cassette to an older wheel. If it was me, and again I'm no expert, I would try the lockring from the old cassette if the new one won't engage with the threads or doesn't engage very many threads... It happened that the cheapo lockring has more threads than the shimano one.
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Old 09-21-20, 04:51 PM
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That cassette will probably not work, you will need a 11-34T cassette or higher.
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Old 09-21-20, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Elvo View Post
That cassette will probably not work, you will need a 11-34T cassette or higher.

The number of teeth in cogs have nothing to do with this. Your wheel has to be able to accept an 11 speed cassette. The cassette you get depends on your situation. I have 11-28. It is 11 speeds but a hub designed only for 10 won’t work. Easy to buy a nice 11 speed rear wheel for $175. The OP can then go to ebay buy shimano 5800 brakes or 5700. He mentioned he does not brake much not a real problem.
Well that sounds fine until you really have to hit the brakes to save your butt. Brakes are much cheaper than doctors and hospitals.
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Old 09-21-20, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
The number of teeth in cogs have nothing to do with this. Your wheel has to be able to accept an 11 speed cassette. The cassette you get depends on your situation. I have 11-28. It is 11 speeds but a hub designed only for 10 won’t work. Easy to buy a nice 11 speed rear wheel for $175. The OP can then go to ebay buy shimano 5800 brakes or 5700. He mentioned he does not brake much not a real problem.
Well that sounds fine until you really have to hit the brakes to save your butt. Brakes are much cheaper than doctors and hospitals.
Shimano/SRAM 11 speed cassettes 11-34t and higher will work on 8/9/10 speed shimano freehubs.
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Old 09-21-20, 09:43 PM
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Higher, how? Shimano has a chart that says the GS RD works for cassettes from 28 on up. I thought the concern was spacing between rings?
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Old 09-22-20, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
Higher, how? Shimano has a chart that says the GS RD works for cassettes from 28 on up. I thought the concern was spacing between rings?
I think the issue is your freehub, not your derailleur. With a 34T or larger cog on the cassette, it can be offset to overhang the hub on a 10-speed freehub as Shimano does with mountain 11-speed cassettes. A smaller large cog (like 28 or 32) isn’t big enough to fit around the hub & spokes.
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Old 09-22-20, 10:39 AM
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I put the cassette on. When I removed the 9-speed that's on there, I found what looked like a spacer between the hub and the largest cog. It looks to be about 1-2mm thick.

When I removed that silver-metallic ring, the new cassette fit perfectly; the locking ring had several turns before tightening. But I left that ring on, it was a close-but-that's-not-secure fit. Is that silver ring a crucial part, or am I good to go?

FWIW, without the ring, the distance from the largest cog to the hub didn't look overly close - but I suppose the best way to figure that out would be to drop it back into the frame (time prevented me) and see how it revolves?
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Old 09-22-20, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
Higher, how? Shimano has a chart that says the GS RD works for cassettes from 28 on up. I thought the concern was spacing between rings?
The Ultegra 8000 GS RD should work up to 11-34, maybe 11-36. It can go even higher with a road link.
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Old 09-22-20, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
I put the cassette on. When I removed the 9-speed that's on there, I found what looked like a spacer between the hub and the largest cog. It looks to be about 1-2mm thick.

When I removed that silver-metallic ring, the new cassette fit perfectly; the locking ring had several turns before tightening. But I left that ring on, it was a close-but-that's-not-secure fit. Is that silver ring a crucial part, or am I good to go?

FWIW, without the ring, the distance from the largest cog to the hub didn't look overly close - but I suppose the best way to figure that out would be to drop it back into the frame (time prevented me) and see how it revolves?
It's probably 1.8mm too long and sticking out.
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Old 09-22-20, 03:15 PM
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I have no idea what the discussions about cog size are about. I already have a 12-28t cassette; according to Shimano's specs that will not be a problem with the medium-cage R8000 Rear Derailleur.

I just dropped the wheel into the frame and it was fine - without the little silver spacer. Is there someone who would like to offer an opinion on whether or not that little silver spacer (found between the hub and the large cog when it was set up with a 9-speed cassette) is ... important?
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Old 09-22-20, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
I have no idea what the discussions about cog size are about. I already have a 12-28t cassette; according to Shimano's specs that will not be a problem with the medium-cage R8000 Rear Derailleur.

I just dropped the wheel into the frame and it was fine - without the little silver spacer. Is there someone who would like to offer an opinion on whether or not that little silver spacer (found between the hub and the large cog when it was set up with a 9-speed cassette) is ... important?
That spacer is used to take up the extra space on a 10-speed compatible freehub body when running a 9-speed cassette. Your 11-speed cassette does not need a spacer, because it was designed to use all of the space provided by the freehub body.

On another note: you should be fine testing out your existing calipers with your new brake levers. As long as you can set the levers so that they stop 1" from the bar when the wheel is fully locked up, you're good to go. If the brakes feel spongy with less than 1" between the lever and the bar, then you might need to think about changing something.
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Old 09-23-20, 03:49 PM
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Thanks, BoraxKid .
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