So can a 300 lb guy ride only an aluminum bike?
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10-16-19, 01:11 PM
#27
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Some posts in this thread have lots of words....
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10-16-19, 07:52 PM
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Well said Mr Laurier. The frame/fork materials arguments really have no meaning without backup data about real world outcomes. The bicycle industry is legally set up to shield all this type of data from lawyers and lawsuits and of course the public. It has been impossible to sue a bicycle manufacturer for a frame/fork failure up until recently. This may be changing now in our court system and this opaque part of the bicycle world may come to light. Someone mentioned that bicycle manufacturers must believe in their product because they were backing it with long guarantees. As far as I can tell bicycles are very cheap to make, even at the higher grades, and it is in the manufacturers best interest to just replace broken frame/fork components than fight legal battles. Thus long guarantees.
10-27-19, 05:10 PM
#29
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The issue with aluminum alloys is that they do not have a clear elastic limit. One can make a spring out of steel or titanium, but you don't see aluminum springs. Good engineering design takes this into account, and aluminum frames are safe. The DeHaviland Comet airliner was a great example of what can go wrong. The only motorcycle frame that has cracked on me was a steel trellis.
10-30-19, 12:42 PM
#30
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You'd never know it from reading Bike Forums, but steel bikes are a very small part of the market, and for good reasons. Manufacturers predominantly use aluminum because that material enables the design of frames that are light and yet have a low failure rate (making lifetime frame warranties a reasonable proposition from their point of view). Building steel frames that are nearly as light and nearly as durable is much more difficult.
Discussions of frame materials on Bike Forums tend to devolve into increasingly emotional assertions supported by evidence that is anecdotal at best. That's not surprising; given how costly destructive testing of bikes is, there's not much out there in the way of factual evidence demonstrating the real differences in reliability between frame materials.
However, the German bike magazine Tour once ran an article reporting the results of extensive fatigue testing of a dozen high-end steel, titanium, aluminum, and carbon fiber frames.
TLDR: all of the steel and titanium frames failed; most of the aluminum and carbon frames survived. (The article is hosted on the website of the late, great Sheldon Brown, source of much invaluable and reliable bike information.)
To read the article, do a search using the following phrase:
12 High-End Frames in the EFBe Fatigue Test
Discussions of frame materials on Bike Forums tend to devolve into increasingly emotional assertions supported by evidence that is anecdotal at best. That's not surprising; given how costly destructive testing of bikes is, there's not much out there in the way of factual evidence demonstrating the real differences in reliability between frame materials.
However, the German bike magazine Tour once ran an article reporting the results of extensive fatigue testing of a dozen high-end steel, titanium, aluminum, and carbon fiber frames.
TLDR: all of the steel and titanium frames failed; most of the aluminum and carbon frames survived. (The article is hosted on the website of the late, great Sheldon Brown, source of much invaluable and reliable bike information.)
To read the article, do a search using the following phrase:
12 High-End Frames in the EFBe Fatigue Test
That high end frame fatigue test is not relevant to normal steel frames, those are frames designed to be light which clearly steel isn't going to be competitive for lightness so they are compromised designs to compete with CF and aluminium in weight so it would be expected those steel frames would be weaker. I don't get why people reference that test it makes no sense in the real world. It certainly makes the point though if you want a lightweight road bike don't get steel but not every steel bike is a lightweight performance orientated road bike.
11-21-19, 08:34 PM
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Hello Rodgeman
I am 6'4"" and Iweight 300 LBS do you think The Trek Marlin or the Specialized Sirrus will fit me ?
Thanks for your advice
I am 6'4"" and Iweight 300 LBS do you think The Trek Marlin or the Specialized Sirrus will fit me ?
Thanks for your advice
11-22-19, 02:18 AM
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I am 6'4"" and Iweight 300 LBS do you think The Trek Marlin or the Specialized Sirrus will fit me ?
Thanks for your advice
11-22-19, 06:41 AM
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Two wheels down dk63
11-22-19, 07:52 AM
#34
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I chose the Canondale since their XL was the largest at the time. I think Specialized Sirrus come in that size also. I am 6'4, but short torso btw.
11-22-19, 08:36 AM
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I hope this helps.
11-26-19, 09:50 AM
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Steel is by far the most common material for bicycles manufactured in the world and may even be the most used in richer countries too. The average price of bicycles sold is quite low even in the developed world. However it's definitely the most common material across India and China and most poorer nations so definitely forms the majority easily. You can be sure when you see some African or Indian who has overloaded his bike by transporting bricks it will be a straight gauge steel frame with a modest price and not aluminium.
That high end frame fatigue test is not relevant to normal steel frames, those are frames designed to be light which clearly steel isn't going to be competitive for lightness so they are compromised designs to compete with CF and aluminium in weight so it would be expected those steel frames would be weaker. I don't get why people reference that test it makes no sense in the real world. It certainly makes the point though if you want a lightweight road bike don't get steel but not every steel bike is a lightweight performance orientated road bike.
That high end frame fatigue test is not relevant to normal steel frames, those are frames designed to be light which clearly steel isn't going to be competitive for lightness so they are compromised designs to compete with CF and aluminium in weight so it would be expected those steel frames would be weaker. I don't get why people reference that test it makes no sense in the real world. It certainly makes the point though if you want a lightweight road bike don't get steel but not every steel bike is a lightweight performance orientated road bike.
12-02-19, 04:18 AM
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sometimes and that obsession is where such testing is justified. I really can't see anyone putting the time and effort into comparing basic frames. You only have to look at Africa, India and many parts of Asia to see people taking steel bikes to the extreme of weight limits and of course
none of these countries are using CF or aluminium frames as everyday work bikes, it would be madness to do so. To even see a CF bike on the road in many countries is an extreme rarity, in many countries CF bikes just aren't really sold in any significant numbers.
12-02-19, 11:52 AM
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Surely you realise that such tests are done for high end lightweight frames and no one is going to put basic heavy duty frames to such a test. The cycling industry in the US and Europe and other wealthy areas of the world is weight obsessed, you get 7kg bikes costing five figures
sometimes and that obsession is where such testing is justified. I really can't see anyone putting the time and effort into comparing basic frames. You only have to look at Africa, India and many parts of Asia to see people taking steel bikes to the extreme of weight limits and of course
none of these countries are using CF or aluminium frames as everyday work bikes, it would be madness to do so. To even see a CF bike on the road in many countries is an extreme rarity, in many countries CF bikes just aren't really sold in any significant numbers.
sometimes and that obsession is where such testing is justified. I really can't see anyone putting the time and effort into comparing basic frames. You only have to look at Africa, India and many parts of Asia to see people taking steel bikes to the extreme of weight limits and of course
none of these countries are using CF or aluminium frames as everyday work bikes, it would be madness to do so. To even see a CF bike on the road in many countries is an extreme rarity, in many countries CF bikes just aren't really sold in any significant numbers.
The reason is, more likely, that producing small numbers of steel framed bikes is a much less expensive endeavor than Al or CF bikes. But if an inexpensive steel bike can be made strong enough to haul logs, a slightly-less inexpensive bike can be made from aluminum and do just as good a job of hauling logs. There would be no reason to do this (and several reasons not to do this), but the fact that the only known thorough and scientific test of frame materials is done with expensive bikes does not automatically mean the test results could not be extrapolated to some extent to cover less expensive bikes, and there is no logic at all that supports your assumption that the results would be opposite for less expensive bikes.
12-08-19, 09:39 PM
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I think both of you make very good points. I would say the cheapest bicycle to make and distribute dominates the 3rd world. I have heard the idea that aluminum bicycles are cheaper to make. If that is so than is what is selling in the third world. I have no way to check what is presently on sale in Nigeria, India, or even China but I'll try to dig up some data. There are parts of Asia that have sold bamboo framed bicycles, very cheap to make, easy to repair, quite durable and practical for their locals. The bamboo frames had steel lugs that the bamboo slipped into. There are still steel frame bicycles being sold in large numbers in America but aluminum has made enormous inroads and I'm not sure of the split between those two materials. I would venture to guess that carbon fiber bicycles are a much smaller segment of the American market.
12-08-19, 09:40 PM
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If that is so then that is what is selling in the third world. Spell check worked but brain did not.
12-17-19, 09:38 AM
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I am currently 280... My bike frame is a 1986 Centurion Facet Aluminum (modern 105 10 speed)... I have over 4000 miles on the frame and 2400 miles of that are on trainer. I am also riding on 24 spoke rims with 2500 miles on them with no issues, including riding some unpaved roads. Wheels have more to do with type of rim and construction than it does spoke count, anyone that tells you otherwise is misinformed.
Older pic has been upgraded to 105 shifters since
Older pic has been upgraded to 105 shifters since
Last edited by copperfind; 12-23-19 at 07:25 AM.
12-19-19, 07:20 PM
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I am currently 280... My bike frame is a 1986 Centurion Facet Aluminum (modern 105 10 speed)... I have over 2000 miles on the frame and 2400 miles of that are on trainer. I am also riding on 24 spoke rims with 2500 miles on them with no issues, including riding some unpaved roads. Wheels have more to do with type of rim and construction than it does spoke count, anyone that tells you otherwise is misinformed.
Older pic has been upgraded to 105 shifters since
Older pic has been upgraded to 105 shifters since
Dont worry too much about what could go wrong OP. Just get out there and ride.
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12-23-19, 07:26 AM
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nice bike! I also have low spoke count wheels. mavic aksiums. Worst wheels on paper for a heavy rider. I'm 350lbs and they have never given me any trouble. These wheels are also on an aluminium frame which is still holding my weight no bother😁.
Dont worry too much about what could go wrong OP. Just get out there and ride.
Dont worry too much about what could go wrong OP. Just get out there and ride.
12-23-19, 06:18 PM
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I am currently 280... I have over 4000 miles on the frame and 2400 miles of that are on trainer. I am also riding on 24 spoke rims with 2500 miles on them with no issues, including riding some unpaved roads. Wheels have more to do with type of rim and construction than it does spoke count, anyone that tells you otherwise is misinformed.
How do you get 24 spoke rims with 2500 miles on them? Were the wheels on another frame previously?
12-29-19, 08:16 PM
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nice bike! I also have low spoke count wheels. mavic aksiums. Worst wheels on paper for a heavy rider. I'm 350lbs and they have never given me any trouble. These wheels are also on an aluminium frame which is still holding my weight no bother😁.
Dont worry too much about what could go wrong OP. Just get out there and ride.
Dont worry too much about what could go wrong OP. Just get out there and ride.
12-29-19, 08:22 PM
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Your Centurion is very nice. I love the yellow paint scheme. I rode with the Reno, NV, wheelmen in the early 1970's when Bob, the father, and Greg, the son Lemond joined our club to learn how to road race. Both were riding steel Centurions and both got real fast on them. After the first year they began riding other racing equipment, but still..........
02-11-20, 09:17 AM
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Aluminum frame production requires more sophisticated manufacturing techniques, including some type of heat treatment afterwards. The fact that aluminum is easier to mass manufacture recreational bikes that are (on paper) superior in most aspects to steel does not make them the preferred bikes in the developing world.
02-11-20, 01:37 PM
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I have never heard that aluminum bikes are cheaper to produce... maybe cheaper to mass produce modern lightweight bikes, but if you are making frames from plain gauge steel tubing soldered into sockets, or making new steel bikes by cutting apart old steel bikes, you need almost no infrastructure - just a hacksaw and a torch.. And, while this isn't as relevant to recreational cyclists as is often expressed, steel is easier to repair when it breaks
Aluminum frame production requires more sophisticated manufacturing techniques, including some type of heat treatment afterwards. The fact that aluminum is easier to mass manufacture recreational bikes that are (on paper) superior in most aspects to steel does not make them the preferred bikes in the developing world.
Aluminum frame production requires more sophisticated manufacturing techniques, including some type of heat treatment afterwards. The fact that aluminum is easier to mass manufacture recreational bikes that are (on paper) superior in most aspects to steel does not make them the preferred bikes in the developing world.
02-11-20, 02:41 PM
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tallbikeman It depends on what type of manufacturing and the scale. Cutting/mitering/machining/forming aluminum is likely cheaper on a large scale because the material is so much softer. Aluminum welding is, I believe, slightly more complicated, but possibly cheaper on a large scale because the lower melting point compared to steel requires less energy.
It is my understanding that less expensive bikes in developing countries are almost exclusively steel. This is likely because the less expensive bikes require less mitering and machining (look inside the BB of a cheap steel frame and you can see no effort was made to cut the ends of the tubes to fit), no tube forming is done at all, and the frames are likely not welded but brazed, which is a lower temperature process. If the bikes are welded they are possibly MIG or arc welded (or other less precise welding process), which is not possible with more expensive bikes because the thinner tube walls make more expensive TIG welding necessary.
It is my understanding that less expensive bikes in developing countries are almost exclusively steel. This is likely because the less expensive bikes require less mitering and machining (look inside the BB of a cheap steel frame and you can see no effort was made to cut the ends of the tubes to fit), no tube forming is done at all, and the frames are likely not welded but brazed, which is a lower temperature process. If the bikes are welded they are possibly MIG or arc welded (or other less precise welding process), which is not possible with more expensive bikes because the thinner tube walls make more expensive TIG welding necessary.
