xanderarch

After previously riding mostly mountain bikes I have recently purchased my first road bike. I love everything about road riding (and my new Lemond Sarthe) except the absolutley pathetic power and control that I have over the braking from my preferred riding position on the hoods - arghhhhh. I have Ultegra STI levers on the bike. Since I am riding in the SF bay area where we have a lot of steep downhills I feel particulalry nervous letting the bike go downhill - and what is the point of an agonizing climb if you can't enjoy the descent?

Based on the geometry of where the levers lay in relation to the bars , it seems to me that STI brake levers are primarily designed to be used from the drops and that functionality from the hoods is optimized more towards shifting. My problems braking may be particularly exacerbated because I have the hoods sticking up about 5-8 degrees more than flat so I can ride the hoods like bullhorn bars. This means that from the drop I have to reach up to get brake. I also have relatively stumpy fingers- though not tiny and proportional to my 5'8" male build.

So ideally I am looking for another bar option that allows me to brake and shift with confidence from a position similar to riding on the hoods. Ideally the brake levers should be on a line perpendicular to the hoods. If needed I am willing to purchase different kind of shifters and brake levers altogether. I am certainly not sold on the peformance of STI style road controls for the kind of precise and controlled braking that I desire for descents and traffic and descents in traffic. I also wonder if what I am noticing is a deficiency in braking power of road brakes compared to center pull mountain bike brakes.

Any thoughts on alternative bar, brake, shifter options will be much appreciated. Ideally this can be solved with a different bar without having to invest in another set of brakes and shifters - but maybe for the way I ride on the hoods STI levers just don't make sense.

Thanks in advance and apologies if this has been covered elsehwere on the fourm. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is a common gripe with road bikes and is one of the reason that bullhorn bars have gotten so popular on urban single speeds.

sstorkel

A few suggestions:

1) In order to get maximum braking from your road brakes and STI levers, your brakes need to be properly adjusted. I don't have an especially strong grip, but I guarantee I can lock either wheel without much trouble using my Ultegra STI levers and brake calipers (with stock pads). Proper adjustment, in my opinion, means that the brake pads float very close to the rim. As soon as you pull on the brake lever, you should feel the pads contacting the wheel almost immediately. If your pads are a quarter-inch from the rim and you have to pull the lever half-way through its range of motion before the pads start to bite, you're going to get terrible braking.

2) Try changing your brake pads if you want improved stopping power. Everyone recommends KoolStop "salmon" pads.

3) Road brakes will never feel like they have the same level of stopping power as mountain bike brakes. They do work surprisingly well, if used properly, but they just don't feel the same. If you want MTB-feel, buy a canti- or disc-equipped cyclocross bike.

4) Cyclocross-style brake levers, which mount on the flat portion of your handlebar, operate like traditional mountain bike brake levers. They work in conjunction with your STI levers, so that you can brake from either location. Check-out the Salsa Cross2, Cane Creek CrossTop, Paul Components Cross Lever, or Tektro RL720 for examples of these levers. They won't help you when riding in the drops, but if you're used to mountain bike brake levers, they might be more reassuring...

Chucklehead

Sounds like you might need to shim your levers for a shorter reach. Other than that, for someone just getting into road cycling and STI levers, braking from the hoods definitely feels a little unnatural, but just takes some getting used to. Give it some time, maybe. Alot of people will tell you that you shouldn't descend on the hoods, too.

nitropowered

I beg to differ. You get more modulation and control when your brakes are looser. This is because your fingers will wrap around the lever more. With brakes super tight, you end up braking with only your finger tips. Your finger tips have very little power. Now run your brakes a little looser and your fingers will wrap around the lever more when you brake and you will use more of your finger muscles. This in turn give you more control, power, and modulation

botto 

getting to the top.

perhaps flat bars with Shimano SL-R770, or the equivalent, is what you're looking for.

sorry, but unless there's a maintenance issue with your brakes, it sounds more like an issue with your braking skills.


if you mean descending, and braking, on the hoods a steep descent, then i have to agree.

a false suspicion, at least regarding bullhorns on FG/SS. bullhorns are popular, because 99.8% of the people who ride ss/fg never break 15 mph. therefore, there's no need for the drops.



fwiw - John Tomac didn't seem to mind drop bars.

roydyates

You shouldn't descend riding on the hoods. Serious descending (like you find in the Bay area) should always be from the drops. You get the best control and modulation of your brakes from the drops. You also get your best steering control from the drops. Your brake levers should be positioned so you can grab the bottom of the lever while you're in the drops. This gives you maximum leverage. Admittedly, this makes braking less efficient from the hoods but you shouldn't ride the hoods when you need maximum braking performance.

If this positioning is difficult because your fingers are too short, maybe you want to try the shims that the WSD bikes use to bring the end of the brake lever closer to the bar.

merlinextraligh

1) +1 on shimming the levers for a shorter reach.

2) learn to descend in the drops. It gives you a lower center of gravity, and the bike handles better than descending on the hoods.

3) you might want to consider "interrupters" so you can brake on the top of the bars.

Surferbruce

FSA compact bars. best money ive spent on my ride. Competetive Cyclist has a nice little video review of them, check it out.
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...=&QUERY_BRAND=

Coyote2

1) Your opinion needs adjusting. You will get much better braking modulation as well as absolute force by adjusting calipers so that the brakes lock up slightly before the brake lever touches the handlebar.

2) Correct.

3) Correct.

4) Good advice.

Davidlean

The video clip matches my enthusiasm for the FSA compact bars. I am not a racer, but I always found other bars deficient for what I preferred. The FSA bars are a perfect fit for me.

Back to the original OP. There are many ways to tweak the bars and shifters to your preferences. Don't give up working for the right setup for good brake control on descents.

Banzai

True both. It's difficult to get people to understand this, and many LBSs set up brakes to "lock" after about 2cm of travel. When I service friends bikes and set up the brakes like this, they always say (at first) "these are too loose...I won't be able to stop!" It takes a lot of explaining about the functionality and hands on testing of the stronger grip with a full fist of muscle to get them to come around.

So +1 to the above. Much better modulation with looser calipers, and max braking will occur with your entire fist firmly wrapped around the mechanism, as opposed to hanging on with a partially open hand and your fingertips.

sstorkel

Do you have an explanation for why this is true? Because it sounds a bit ridiculous to me...

I'm a reasonably competent bicycle mechanic and have tried the brakes both ways. When braking from the hoods, as the OP wants to do, I get much better results if I run the brakes on the tighter side. This seems to be especially true for people with smaller hands, who can't achieve the same mechanical advantage as someone with larger hands when braking from the hoods. When I run the brakes loose, I actually have less lever travel once the brakes touch the rim and thus less ability to modulate the brakes! When braking from the drops, I agree that you could run the brakes looser... but I haven't experienced any disadvantage to running them tight. Then again, I guess I have to admit that I was a motorcycle racer for many years and developed a pretty good feel for traction and braking forces...

P.S. When I say "tight" I mean: my Ultegra brake calipers are setup as specified by Shimano, with the total gap (left+right) between the brake pads and rim being 3-4mm. Most of the bikes I see have at least twice as much space between the brake pads and the rim. Probably a result of people not getting their brakes adjusted following the break-in period or clueless mechanics who don't follow the manufacturer's setup guidelines.

RFC

This configuration works very well for me. Very comfortable and solid. It allows solid holds both when breaking and shifting. I like it so much that I am building a tri bike with brifters in the brake position.

botto 

dude, FYI, if you're looking to descend hills on that, you're ****ed.

BarracksSi

I've run my brakes both ways, and I'm actually preferring the "loose" version that we're talking about here. It hadn't occurred to me why until reading nitropowered & Banzai's posts.

When they're super-close like my LBS tends to set them, the brakes start grabbing before I can get very much of my fingers around the levers -- and I wear XL-sized gloves. From there, the levers can't move much farther before either locking up the brakes or they're finished squeezing the bejeezus out of the brake pads.

When I set them up myself, I try to get a balance so that I can lock up the brakes while using the full travel of the lever. The levers, then, move a bit before the brakes engage, but they'll still lock well before the levers get squeezed against the handlebars themselves. By that point, it's just like they say -- I'm able to use a fistful of squeezing effort rather than just the outer joints of my fingers.

merlinextraligh

1) that's going to be a funky movement to shift.

2) it defeats the purpose of the aerobars. The shifters are on the end of the aerobars so that you can shift while maintaining an aero position.

RFC

Allow me to clarify.

On my riding routes, I can safely be down on the aero bars about 50% of the time. So it is a tradeoff allowing me better control when I'm on the bulls. Actually, if you are comfortable on the aero bars, it is quite quick and easy to slide a hand over to the barends. And, for most aero bar riding, generally you are only using a couple of gears.

Coyote2

Not ridiculous at all. With the brake levers squeezed closer to the handlebar, you will have much more leverage/power/mechanical advantage, hence greater stopping power. You will also have much more ability to modulate the brakes this way, Since you will have much more travel in the brake levers.

When brakes are adjusted as YOU recommend, you run out of brake lever travel while the levers are still waaaay away from touching the handlebar. Now, why would any mfr design the brake levers to have so much travel if they didn't want you to use it?

Coyote2

I'm waiting for this pic to show up on BSNYC.

nitropowered

My brakes lock up when the lever is touching the bar.

I too work at an LBS. I set up brakes pretty tight on new bikes simply because 90% of my customers would freak out if it were not set up tight.

sstorkel

Which I don't need. I can stop quite effectively with only two fingers on the lever.

Let's think about this...

Say I have the brakes really loose, just the way the minimum-wage monkeys at my LBS like them. I give the lever a pull and it moves through 50% of the available travel before the pads even touch the rim. Now I have to do 100% of my braking using only 50% of the available travel, right? If I move the lever through 1% of the travel, I now get a 2% increase in braking power. And, because I have more mechanical advantage as the lever approaches the bar, it's actually easier for me to lock the brakes when the lever is in this part of the stroke. It sounds to me like your setup actually makes the brakes more sensitive and difficult to modulate!

Sure, I'll lock up the brakes before the lever hits the bar. But what about the 300lb Clydesdale on a loaded touring bike? Unlike motorcycles, where braking systems are customized to the application, Shimano sells the same brake levers to everyone regardless of application. Some applications need more lever travel, some need less...

FYI, my brake calipers are adjusted the way that Shimano recommends which, apparently, is different than what you recommend. Why would the manufacturer design the brake calipers to place the pads so close to the rim if they didn't want you to have them there in the first place?

04jtb

I concur.

mazdaspeed

oopsie

Super Guanche

That's your problem right there. You're not using your equipment as it was designed. Bring the hootds back down. You get plenty of hand positions on STIs as it is. Learn to descend on the drops. You'll get better balance and better braking.

nitropowered

At the end of the day, its what works best for you in your most used and comfortable position. Unfortunately for new riders, its a lot of trial and error in finding the right bar angle/hood position that works best for you.

Buy some cheap bar tape that doesn't destroy itself when you unwrap it and start experimenting