colleen c

Personally, if given the two choices of those pictures, I rather be in the Spandex than the heels and dress. One, the Spandex will be more comfy and more functional. Two, that heel will not work on my toe clip pedal

It's more about blending in rather than standing out. Ideally for me, when it comes to fashion and biking, the main goal is to be able to Intergrate what I normally wear on a daily basis while still able to use my bike as a transportation instead of a car. Whenever I walk into a dept store or coffee shop with my helmet with a P7 and finger cut gloves, I get a stare or two. If I walked into a store with my jean or skirt with flat shoes and a hair which does not look like it's been blown around by Hurricane Katrina, then guess what? No stare and I feel like a normal plain Jane.

The only setback I see from LBS is that I believe they are so used to dealing with male customer on a daily basis that they lack what is needed for the different need for female patron. For example, most LBS I been to will try to sell me a male fitted bike which is ok but many times they forget the certain things such as that I most likely will need a stem change for my reach. So instead of correcting the problem by changing the stem, they will then show me WSD bike which then turns me off because some are higher in price and it was not the one I wanted to get in the first place. Second example will be the seat. All bike that I bought so far has issue with the seat. The length of the nose piece combine with the reach of the stem give me a case of pain in the you what! Lots of the LBS forget to address these issue and I end up not buying the bike. That's why I like REI, they have more women working in the bike dept and they are more helpful. So now imagine trying to get a commuter bike fitted for a women need where that bike will be used everyday for a fair amount of time and not just several hours on the weekend.

travelmama

Were the barriers to commuting different for you than for men ? NO!!


So I'm interested in knowing what sorts of things kept you from commuting before and what changed that made you start.
Distance kept me from commuting to work. I was working 26 miles one way from my home which was too far to ride to. I drove then started to take the bus which took 2 hours one way. I was laid off and became self employed. I tried driving again but I felt that some who saw the kind of car I drove the work load lessened so I left it in the garage and began to ride my scooter and bike to work. After doing so, the work load got heavy again.

Do you think that women have different concerns that often aren't addressed? Or are the concerns largely the same but maybe different in degrees and priorities?
I think women are concerned about their safety more than anything. I am a woman who does not worry about safety so much when out on the road. Fortunately in all of my years of cycling, I have never been hit or run off the road.

Catgrrl70

Nothing kept me from commuting really. I got started after the 2001 earthquake when my bus route to work was closed (the Viaduct) and there was no way to get from home to work (7 miles) in anything under 1.5 hours, and good luck getting home. So I grabbed my bike. Easy decision and it was fun. No showers, no locker room, no place for my bike but my office. But I continued to ride except for the winters.

I then got a new job with a locker room/shower and good bike storage. I started riding all year round, but mostly took a bus part way (9 miles now). But traffic was getting worse and it took forever to get around sometimes even with split commute. So started riding bus less, but on a converted mtn bike, it was not comfy. Found a better bike shop (had one where techs were great, but hated owner - he was NOT helpful to women and he refused to listen to my concerns - frankly I don't think he believed I rode as much as I did). Found new wonderful bike shop and they helped me put together my Soma commuter. Been going there ever since and they have treated me with respect and it's mutual. It's a place I can go just hang out or ask strange questions about a bike and they never think it's odd - they also teach me things about maintenance and repair.

My current job has a locker room, lockers, showers, towels and a secure indoor bike cage. They promote alternative transit and support bike commuters more and more.

I have met more women commuters the past two years, I hardly saw any when I started and no one else rode. I do think that a couple of my friends who recently started were influenced by me (these women friends asked me lots of questions and still ask for advice about riding). All of us have been more physically fit and active than 'normal' people. We are also fairly self confident. There's no other way to ride in the city. I do encounter 'timid' riders and they can put themselves in dangerous situations. To get more women riders? Slow down traffic! Most women who don't ride are scared of cars. Not scared of not having a shower (although it's important in Seattle), nor of exercising, nor of being considered crazy. It's the traffic, plain and simple. Bike infrastructure helps, but it doesn't solve the problem of aggressive driving.

GriddleCakes

I have the same fears about the Lady G'Cakes commuting that she has about me commuting. I try not to obsess about it, but whenever she's running late it's hard to not think of worst case scenarios (car + bike = bloodshed). And she does the same about me, although I haven't helped this as I used to ride pretty recklessly and aggressively in traffic, and as such I've bounced off a few cars. But life is fraught with danger, and I would never deny her the same risks that I'm willing to take. Especially since she feels that biking before and after work make her job so much more bearable, and she's always been a safer cyclist than myself.

My lady loves how biking to work helps to relieve the stress of an unpleasant job, and that's something I would never try and take away from her. If tragedy strikes, then that's life and I'll deal with it as best I can. But I would rather her be happier every day for riding her bike and have her struck down early, than watch her struggle and suffer everyday all the way to a safe and miserable old age.

Do roadies not wear underwear? That is the worst case of moose knuckle I've ever seen.

Sz10CFootprint

Here's a reason I haven't seen yet. My car commute is 25-30 minutes. My bike commute is 1:15 plus shower time. I can't get my kids off to school and bike commute. Once school is out though, I'll be on the bike.

Here's another reason. Before I got my bike and joined this forum, it never even occured to me to bike to work. There aren't any where I live, so no shining example. Lots of recreational riders but no commuters. Even now, I look for them, but don't see any.

My two cents.

Rhodabike

If a female friend were to ask me how to get started in bike commuting, I think I'd consider the following advice.
- If you aren't already doing some riding on a regular basis, don't start out with a commute in rush-hour traffic. It will be too much to process all at once. Ride 3-4 times a week in the off-peak hours at first to get used to it.
- Make sure your bike fits you properly and is in good condition.
- Learn how to do simple repairs such as changing a tire. There won't be a handy bike shop open at 7:30 a.m. if you get a flat.
- Learn some basic traffic riding skills. Some are not intuitive. (For example; you are NOT safer crammed right over to the gutter in between parked cars. You become invisible every time you skoot over there. It's safer to ride a straight predictable line just to the outside of the parked vehicles.) Local cycling clubs of the touring type will often offer courses in traffic riding skills, and no doubt there is plenty of information on this website as well. (I haven't gone looking for it, but I'm sure it's there.
- If you haven't ridden in years and are shopping for a machine, consider a hub gear bike. They aren't the swiftest things on wheels, but are very uncomplicated and easy to use in stop-and-go traffic.
Just my 2 cents.

damnable

This is a big thing, and it is for me. Image is actually a big thing for women in an office workplace. It is more acceptable for women to have longer hair (hair to take care of), styled hair (takes more time to prepare and not compatible with helmets) and makeup (must be applied after the commute). THis isn't so much of a problem for me because I work in a very casual workplace, but can you imagine two people coming in for an interview a man and a woman who have both commuted enough distance to build up a sweat.

The man - Found a bathroom. Used some baby wipes to dry off or used a shower if available. Got dressed and combed hair as he has short hair as most men do and that's all that is generally required.
The woman - Found a bathroom. Used some baby wipes to dry off or used a shower if available. She has long hair but only brought a comb and you can clearly still see the helmet marks even when she uses it. The long hair is also flying around in some places. No makeup for her either.

In this case the man is going to look much more presentable than the woman for the interview and as such is more likely to get hired. The woman can either take more time to make herself presentable, which includes bringin such things as hair product and makeup with her on the commute or be at a disadvantage job wise.

This isn't a bike commuting problem, it's a problem with society in general, where women are expected to pretty themselves up to be more socially acceptable. And yes, when your livelihood depends on it, there isn't a whole lot of choice. So for those who do this, please stop being condescending about women who give the excuse of appearance as a reason not to commute. Or whinge about women taking longer in the bathroom in the mornings.

Now can someone please suggest to me a practical short haircut that won't immediately make people consider I may be a lesbian. Yes, this is another risk women take. And yes, although completely rediculous, people judge sexual orientation on hair cut - it's happened to me before.

TonyS

I understand that is an issue... but seriously... just consider that in judging sexuality on a haircut, they've revealed that they're not yet the kind of people you want to hang around... so f*** 'em. Let 'em say whatever they're going to say, and keep doing your thing.

damnable

That was half a joke.

Sometimes you can't choose who you hang out with. Workplace etc.

In addition the average 'short' haircut on a woman is still generally longer than a men's haircut. Even this length difference is still enough to make management of the hair and style significantly more difficult. Try having a fringe and see how it feels.

MVclyde

Talk about timing.... I read this thread then saw this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/fa...nt&tntemail1=y

TonyS

Oh I get it... my girlfriend, in fact, has a similar problem... she has LOTS of beautiful curly reddish brown hair, and if she doesn't dry it VERY carefully, she ends up with a style that's... not pretty.

So she'd have to have a hair dryer at work to commute by bike... which sucks. But that's the way it is.

But RE: short haircuts, I still say "Short haircuts can be hawt! If people have a problem with it... f*** em."

vrkelley

My biggest barrier is my small size. A 250#guy has way more visibility than someone half his size.

travelmama

As far as the hair is concerned, I wear a cap because it is usually cold when I am riding and don't like the tracks left by the helmet. If need be, I take it off at work and do a quick hand fluff of my short cut. I am sure that I may look like a man or perceived as a non-straight woman but I don't care. I am on my bike doing what I like to do, going where I need to go. Short hair, long hair, short nails, long nails, bisexual, heterosexual or *****exual should not hold people back from commuting and enjoying the ride. As mentioned before, society tries to tell us how to look in the work place more than how to get there.

I just saw the article linked to the bike shop in NY and wonder how many real commuting females are going to shop there. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect to see a bike boutique.

CbadRider

I keep a hair dryer and makeup in my desk at work for when I commute. I am fortunate that I have showers and a locker room available.

I only commute in spring and summer when it is lighter outside. It is 20 miles to work and I have to take major roads to get there. Riding in winter in the dark for most of the commute would be too scary for me.

Roll-Monroe-Co

Wow. Just a few hours ago, I finished reading an article reviewing basically all the scientific literature ever written on bicycle commuting. I might have just as well read this thread instead.

In fact, such little scientific work as there is on women and bicycle commuting does concur that the main issues are feelings of safety with respect to the infrastructure (e.g. bike path v. open road) and dealing with children (for whom they are usually responsible). Other issues are common to all commuters: light at time of day, weather, and facilities for grooming (however, though people often give this as a reason for /not/ bike commuting, the provision of showers etc. at workplaces is not associated with higher rates of bike commuting), safe bike storage.

I mean it's literally like you guys read this same article (Heinen, E., Van Wee, B., & Maat, K. (2010). Commuting by bicycle: An overview of the literature. Transport Reviews 30(1), 59-96). ...or, alternately, that the science is doing a good job of detecting what's really happening in reality.

One thing people didn't mention that may seem kind of obvious: Non-bike commuters and bike commuters have very different perceptions of what is important about bike commuting (e.g., non-commuters think of bike commuting as much more unsafe than regular bike commuters do), so doing it changes you.

Another thing that's interesting about bike commuting and women is that, pretty much everywhere that's been studied, more men commute by bike than do women. However, the more popular it is in general, the closer it gets to gender parity. So, as you might imagine, the highest proportion of bike commuting women are found in countries like the Netherlands.

Something that is not addressed in the literature that fascinates me are two issue that are raised here:

1) the culture of cycling and the (gendered) organizations and facilities that support and facilitate it (or not) ... e.g. the LBS is staffed with macho roadies and/or punk rock 19-year-olds on their deep-v fixies who have no idea about the life of a real adult with a real job).

2) the equipment. The actual technology that is physically available has certain limitations. In my experience, if you want a bike that is not going to eat your coat and pant leg and not schlime you with grease and that is going to have somewhere that you can easily stow all your stuff, all while being one that is actually suited to your physical needs and the conditions of your commute -- you have to work really hard and become quite knowledgeable and spend a lot of money. Seems like this can be a barrier. (This is not to mention the possibility of porting your kids around with this equipment somehow.)

Love this thread. Thanks so much.

alr

I need to chime in too about the hair thing. I work in a casual environment, and most of the women I am around whether they commute by bicycle, drive, or take the bus don't seem to spend a lot of time on hair and makeup. So I am surprised by all this whining about helmet hair. I commute by bicycle and wear a helmet. I also wear my hair in a bob the hits about the chin and I have bangs. I can put my helmet over my semi wet hair in the morning and when I get to work 15 minutes later, I do a little fluff and it actually doesn't look like I just took off a helmet. I am not dictating that all the women out there to cut their hair off, but I shall ask that you may consider it. Most people don't really look all that good in long hair anyways, they are just really attached to it-- in the TLC show, "What not to wear", almost every female enters the show with long hair and then gets a much shorter haircut, and they always look 1000 times better.

akohekohe

I thought the Swedes did away with the 50 öre . Anyway, I think that practical commuter bikes are much easier to find in Sweden and there are plenty of shops that cater to the commuter market. Well made bicycles with the commuter in mind, that is with chain guards, fenders, luggage racks, dynamo lights, wide tires, comfortable saddles, IGHs, etc. are readily found and I think this makes it more appealing to women given the previous posts. There is also a much more comprehensive network of bicycle facilities than in the US of A. Also, motorists in Sweden are much better behaved in general, and towards bicycles in particular, than in the US of A.

It also appears to me, but I admit I might be on shakier ground here being a guy, Swedish hair styles are less susceptible to helmet hair (they are into braids and such) and there is a much lower penetration of helmets into the adult market in Sweden anyway.

tjspiel

Well, as I male I happen to like long hair on almost all women but prefer what appears to be simple styles.

Women can look really good to me with ball caps and a ponytail coming out the back. That's admittedly a more casual look than what might be appropriate in many offices but creating a bike helmet with a "ponytail port" might be a step in the right direction. When you get to work, just swap the helmet for a ball cap. On the other hand maybe it's better to leave the solution to this sort of problem up to the women.

Seriously, maybe there are other potential changes to helmets that could make the hair thing less of an issue.

billyymc

Is there some kind of quick-reference chart for that? Would come in super handy at parties, so I know which jokes I can use.

travelmama

Are you trying to ruin this thread? I wonder how amusing you look while riding. I can say the same about men but no matter how large they are, if they are on a bike or doing something physical, they are alright with me.

tjspiel

On the off chance that someone with 16 posts isn't some sort of troll, how is somebody who is overweight supposed to lose the weight if they're worried that exercising in public will just subject them to ridicule?

You're being an ass.

coquearaujo

What about when you can't use your brain?

That should be outlawed also in some cases.

colleen c

Interesting indeed. Instead of taking fxjohnisadic remark as offensive, I"ll look at it from an educational point.

The given statement by him is an perfect sample and answer to the original title of this thread. "Women of this forum: Were the barrier different for you than for men?"

I admit, what he said is another barrier we have to overcome. It's not just about hair looks but also about self esteem in the way we suppose to present ourselves to this world, but what is the standard? I guess that depends on who you ask. With that thought, it's no wonder why there are less women commuter out there. The key to getting started begin with purging the mind of any sterotype we have. Maybe then, would we be less of a binary world.

TonyS

The only thing that will kill a troll is malnutrition...

buzzman

Wow.

Talk about gross generalizations! As a former 19 year old bike mechanic (I'm now a 55 year old with what you might call a "real job") I know that when I worked in shops and riding and fixing and selling bikes was my life I was very aware of the variety of needs and resources available to all kinds of riders- and I wasn't unique- most of the people who worked in the shop (who probably looked like "hippies" to the more mainstream) were dedicated to putting people on the right bike for their needs. And that work was what put bread on my table and my co-workers who stayed in the business now own and run very successful shops that serve a broad section of riders.

My nephew, in his early 20's, is now an exceptional frame builder and might come across to some as a "punk rock" 19 year old to someone who didn't realize punk rock went out in the early 90's. As far as what they do for employment being a "real job"- get a clue!- maybe running a corporation like Enron or managing investment scams at Goldman Sachs is a "real" job" but I have more respect for the mechanics and trades people in this world than 90% of people in what are more commonly called "real jobs". And, if you're willing and able to look past their appearance, these bike shop employees more than likely have a wealth of information on the technical aspects of cycling you felt was also a barrier since they have "work(ed) really hard and become quite knowledgeable" about these things.

To imply that working in a bike shop is something less than a "real job" implies that bicycling is a pastime or a recreation at best and not an integral part of people's lives as a means of transportation.

With that in mind we had some amazing women working with us in shops. They commuted to work every day, rode recreationally as well, toured, raced etc. and perhaps the fact that they worked in an environment that accepted them as they were- no requirement to look like they had a "real job". Maybe it's a our cultural attachment to image- especially with regards to women and how they "look" that stands as a barrier.

My wife is a 3 season cyclist and fortunately has the kind of job where she can be somewhat casual in dress. But she leaves a hair dryer, changes of clothes, make-up etc in her office and can throw herself together to look very "professional" when need be.