Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

Lance and Helmets

Old 07-15-04, 02:27 PM
  #26  
Bolo Grubb
Senior Member
 
Bolo Grubb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,892

Bikes: 1984 Trek 720 with a Nexus hub, 2016 Cannondale Synapse

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 10 Posts
THis web site also has some references
https://www.bhsi.org/cooling.htm

References
We recommend at least two good articles on helmet cooling. Unfortunately, neither is available on the Web.

Andrew Ellis has done his PhD research on bike helmet cooling. It was published in the January-February 2001 issue of the Australian magazine Bicycling Australia. You can find the magazine on the Web but not the article.

Jennifer Reid and Eric Wang have published "A System for Quantifying the Cooling Effectiveness of Bicycle Helmets" in the August, 2000 issue of the Journal of Biomechanical Engineering. You can read the abstract, or perhaps get to the article if you subscribe.

And some older references

Burns, Richard. "How Hot the Hat?" Bike World, September, 1975
This was the first report we had seen of a scientific test of helmet coolness. Dick Burns put sensors on his head and rode around with his Bell Biker on. Results indicated a cooler head (in sun) with helmet than without. The article preceded any other published article on this subject by at least ten years. Bike World Magazine flourished for a short time in the mid-1970's.

Zahradnik, Fred "Helmet Buyer's Guide" Bicycling Magazine, Vol XXX, No. 4, May, 1989. This article reported on Bicycling's innovative ventilation testing with an instrumented headform heated internally and a cooling fan. Has a list of helmets available on the U.S. market for 1989, including their ranking in the ventilation test. Bicycling published a similar article in May of 1990 and May of 1991. Then they apparently retired their instrumented headform and stopped giving helmets ratings for ventilation. We don't know if the ratings were accurate or not, but these were ground-breaking articles superior to anything anyone publishes today on helmets in the US market.


again I think it is up to the rider to choose for their own reason , this just got me to thinking about the heat/cooling affects of helmets.
Bolo Grubb is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 02:45 PM
  #27  
TandemGeek
hors category
 
TandemGeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,231
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by 2Rodies
They don't add to the heat as much as the pads absorb so much sweat that it just runs down into your eyes. This is why I always loose mine on hot days during long climbs.
Ditto... On steep climbs on hot days and low-traffic roads the helmet comes off on the climb up and goes on at the summit: call it free will. It's something I've done since I started wearing a hard shell helmet some 20 years ago and it hasn't presented any issues. Call it acceptable risk.

Off-road cycling, always on. Motorcycle helmet, always on and where the heck do you find a good Shoei for $200 (USD)? I think the cheapest one I've ever owned was about twice that, but then again, they last a long time and you can remove the interior padding and wash-out the funk.
TandemGeek is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 03:52 PM
  #28  
TXCiclista
Senior Member
 
TXCiclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,420

Bikes: 2017 Ridley Fenix SL, 2008 Trek 1500, 1998 Diamondback Apex

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Are you being serious? That's a joke, right?
Yes. No.

They're in a very controlled environment. The odds of them dying from head trauma sustained while riding up a mountain at 10 mph are astronomically low. (Heck, sometimes there's not even enough room to fall w/ all the crowds. ) Remember Stage ?15? last year? Lance had no helmet. Came out fine. It's just very long odds for them to suffer a serious accident as speeds that slow. Their greatest dangers would be getting run over by another rider, getting tangled up by the bike or getting hit by chase car/motorcycle. Personally, I'd be fine w/ it if they didn't have to wear the helmet for steep uphill, just as long as they had to put it back on for downhills, etc. But that would be a logistical nightmare... I don't wea a helmet because I'm afraid I'll fall. I did that many times as a kid on my bike. My concern is a driver or other cyclist causing "problems" or maybe an errant rock on a downhill. If I could have clear roads and I wasn't doing much more than 10-12 mph, I'd never wear a helmet. Under those circumstances, the odds of me sustaining any serious head trauma are less than the odds of me getting hit my a meeorite (OK. Maybe not THAT slim, but...) Additionally, I spend time while riding considering what I might do in certain situations. That way, when the time comes, I'm more prepared subconsciously. A good thing to do while driving too ("What would I do if this person beside me just came over all of the sudden?" etc)

I suppose you don't mind when someone blows second-hand smoke in your face - afterall, they've performed their own risk assessment
TERRIBLE, WEAK analogy. Second-hand smoke has been proven to lead to lung cancer. The last time I checked, whether Lance wore a helmet on his ride had no effect on whether I got a head injury...
__________________
TXCiclista is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 04:09 PM
  #29  
gcasillo
Maglia Ciclamino
 
gcasillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 3,073

Bikes: Bianchi Aria, Bianchi Volpe

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
As long as the rest of us roadies wear them, I'm fine with the pros tossing them.
gcasillo is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 04:36 PM
  #30  
Stretch
Will ride for food.
Thread Starter
 
Stretch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 99

Bikes: Trek 4900

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gcasillo
As long as the rest of us roadies wear them, I'm fine with the pros tossing them.
That's one way to think about it, but many future riders look to the pros as role models.
Stretch is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 04:51 PM
  #31  
TXCiclista
Senior Member
 
TXCiclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,420

Bikes: 2017 Ridley Fenix SL, 2008 Trek 1500, 1998 Diamondback Apex

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, if future riders only toss their helmets on an uphill finish, that'll be a big improvement over the current situation The UCI made a big step with this new rule and I think it strikes a good balance...
__________________

Last edited by TXCiclista; 07-15-04 at 05:02 PM.
TXCiclista is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 09:31 PM
  #32  
Buddy_Lee
can't bust 'em
 
Buddy_Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Valrico, FL
Posts: 20

Bikes: 2002 Fuji Team Road, Giant NRS-1 MTB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stretch
Howcome he doesn't always wear a helmet? Sometimes you see him riding with one, other times he just has that Postal hat on. What gives?
I commend you for your troll... well done.
Wait 'til half way through the tour then re-start up the oldest of holy wars.
Pure genius

- Buddy Lee
Buddy_Lee is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 10:11 PM
  #33  
Stretch
Will ride for food.
Thread Starter
 
Stretch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 99

Bikes: Trek 4900

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Buddy_Lee
I commend you for your troll... well done.
Wait 'til half way through the tour then re-start up the oldest of holy wars.
Pure genius

- Buddy Lee
Maybe you've been around since the first holy war, but I'm kinda new at this. I think it was a valid question.
Stretch is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 10:47 PM
  #34  
KennethToronto
Go Go Fassa
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stretch
That's one way to think about it, but many future riders look to the pros as role models.
Again, a weak argument.

If you're dumb enough to not wear a helmet just because your role model doesn't wear one, then that's really your fault isn't it?

Just because someone else jumps off a bridge, doesn't mean you have to follow them.
KennethToronto is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 10:50 PM
  #35  
MacMan
Sick ... again
 
MacMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pgreene
these guys all train without helmets. they are clearly aware of the risks, and choose not to wear a lid. whether it's because they're "old school" or claim the helmet is uncomfortable, it's ok with me. i'm a huge hockey fan, and a player. i wear a full face shield, because one fake tooth is enough. the guys in the nhl, however, don't. some don't even wear a visor. they do it for a living, they get concessions thrown their way.

besides, F1 cars don't have airbags.
The general public cannot go out and buy an F1 car. A bike they can. Hockey players do not wear visors, yes, but they do wear helmets because of the dangers of hitting their heads on the ice. Anyone can go out and buy a bike and happily go ride it on a 4-lane highway with no compulsion to wear a helmet. I just think it's incumbent upon the Tour to enforce the helmet rule.
MacMan is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 10:51 PM
  #36  
MacMan
Sick ... again
 
MacMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CarlJStoneham
TERRIBLE, WEAK analogy. Second-hand smoke has been proven to lead to lung cancer. The last time I checked, whether Lance wore a helmet on his ride had no effect on whether I got a head injury...
Then you need to read more. Specifically on the influence of TV imagery especially in sports. The emulation is huge.
MacMan is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 10:53 PM
  #37  
MacMan
Sick ... again
 
MacMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by KennethToronto
Again, a weak argument.

If you're dumb enough to not wear a helmet just because your role model doesn't wear one, then that's really your fault isn't it?

Just because someone else jumps off a bridge, doesn't mean you have to follow them.
That's the typically weak argument of the Libertarian crowd. The fact is, there are times when rules need to be legislated. And this, IMHO, is one of them.
MacMan is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:11 PM
  #38  
Hitchy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Oz
Posts: 2,397

Bikes: how long have you got?

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Buddy_Lee
I commend you for your troll... well done.
Wait 'til half way through the tour then re-start up the oldest of holy wars.
Pure genius

- Buddy Lee
G'day,

Agree, I'm waiting for 'stretch' to start the newest, 'Shimano vs campy..which is better?" or 'steel vs carbon, which is more comfortable?" threads........

cheers,

Hitchy (who KNOWS DA & carbon are better!)
Hitchy is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:13 PM
  #39  
TXCiclista
Senior Member
 
TXCiclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,420

Bikes: 2017 Ridley Fenix SL, 2008 Trek 1500, 1998 Diamondback Apex

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Then you need to read more. Specifically on the influence of TV imagery especially in sports. The emulation is huge
In the words of The Torch: "Flame on!"

Again, your analogy was of the weakest kind. Second-smoke is physiologically capable of causing me cancer. I can not prevent it if I wanted to. If someone lights up near me, any smoke I inhale will have potentially serious health consequences. Though I do my best to leave or ask the person to put out the cigarette, I have no control over my well-being in that situation. This has been proved a million times over. There has never been, nor will there ever be, a study proving that Lance Armstrong dropping a helmet on an uphill climb will in any way, shape or form causes me physical injury. The only way I will suffer harm is through a conscious decision to do as Lance does. A choice. Your argument was/is inherently flawed because second-hand smoke has no choice associated with it (on my part). I cannot inhale the smoke and *choose* not to be affected by it. In order to eliminate any adverse effects, I must leave the area where the smoke is. I can watch Lance and *choose* not to chuck my helmet. I do not need to stop watching Lance. You said it yourself: TV imagery "influences" (and even this is weak since I have seen for "no helmets on the pros" years and have not been "influenced" to do anything but wear a helmet). Second-smoke does not. It *causes*.

Your analogy is of the worst kind. It attempts to cloud an issue by linking it to a controversial cause when no real connection exists. The helmet issue is purely one of *choice*. The smoke is one of *biology*. They are not related. Find a better one.

And as for legislating rules, you need to walk lightly there. There are some for whom you are a role model. Perhaps your behavior should be legislated so they will not follow you to some mistake, especially if you have children. Perhaps you should be fined if you *ever* do something that might sway your children (present or future) to do anything wrong or foolhardy. (Oh, and don't pull the "but they're professional athletes" crap. Someone needs to run that old Charles Barkley "I am not a role model" commerical again). When people start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming it on others, we'll be in much better shape. I'm waiting for the day when the "peas up the nose" admonition is no longer "pc". I'm moving to France then and I'll watch the flames of Anarchy race across America while I dance on a picture of George Bush (and ride my bike up the first 500m of Alpe d'Huez before keeling over dead, a happy man (oh, and I won't be wearing a helmet ))

"Flame off"
__________________
TXCiclista is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:17 PM
  #40  
Hitchy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Oz
Posts: 2,397

Bikes: how long have you got?

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
g'day,

you could *choose* to hold your breath!.......LOL

cheers,

Hitchy
Hitchy is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:21 PM
  #41  
KennethToronto
Go Go Fassa
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This will never go anywhere.

There are some who believe rational, self interested individuals should be allowed to make their own decisions given fair warning.

Others believe the state should intervene in almost everything.


Now you can apply the helmet debate, cigarette advertising, mandatory seat belts, any intrusion by the government into our lives debate, into the above perspective.
KennethToronto is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:33 PM
  #42  
Stretch
Will ride for food.
Thread Starter
 
Stretch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 99

Bikes: Trek 4900

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Kenneth,
Maybe I wasn't clear with my statement. I didn't mean that I was looking to pros for guidance as a role model. I meant younger riders.

Hitchy,
What do component brand comparisons have to do with wearing helmets? I was thinking of safety when I started this thread. Obviously, I didn't know that they don't wear helmets when they are on slower climbs and not when they are screaming down long mountain decents. I'm not insinuating that they should wear helmets all the time, either. Again, I think it was a perfectly valid question.

And yes, if the water is deep enough, and I'm feelin' froggy; I'll jump off the bridge.
Stretch is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:36 PM
  #43  
Stretch
Will ride for food.
Thread Starter
 
Stretch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 99

Bikes: Trek 4900

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If there are any moderators reading this:

Feel free to lock this thread if you like; it's not being productive anymore.
Stretch is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:45 PM
  #44  
Hitchy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Oz
Posts: 2,397

Bikes: how long have you got?

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stretch
Kenneth,
Maybe I wasn't clear with my statement. I didn't mean that I was looking to pros for guidance as a role model. I meant younger riders.

Hitchy,
What do component brand comparisons have to do with wearing helmets? I was thinking of safety when I started this thread. Obviously, I didn't know that they don't wear helmets when they are on slower climbs and not when they are screaming down long mountain decents. I'm not insinuating that they should wear helmets all the time, either. Again, I think it was a perfectly valid question.

And yes, if the water is deep enough, and I'm feelin' froggy; I'll jump off the bridge.

G'day,

I'm innocent (for once!)....you've misunderstood me...my comment was mean't to reflect the futility of the whole helmet debate...as well as the other 'never ending stories' I pointed out.....If anything, I'm leaning your way (as can be seen from my original post).,

cheers,

Hitchy
Hitchy is offline  
Old 07-15-04, 11:58 PM
  #45  
TXCiclista
Senior Member
 
TXCiclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,420

Bikes: 2017 Ridley Fenix SL, 2008 Trek 1500, 1998 Diamondback Apex

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
And yes, if the water is deep enough, and I'm feelin' froggy; I'll jump off the bridge
Amen (and I'm pretty sure no one locks threads around here. What a terrible forum that must be to do such a thing )
__________________
TXCiclista is offline  
Old 07-16-04, 12:04 AM
  #46  
HDTVKSS
randomness inc.
 
HDTVKSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"besides, F1 cars don't have airbags. "

your kidding me right? they only have to wear a HELMET, 7 point harness, 3 layers of fire proof nomex, a race suit on top, a car that has to pass the most stringent crash testing availiable, and when Ralf Shumacher crahed and indianapolis he STILL broke 2 vertebrae in his back. Senna was arguably the greatest F1 driver ever ( on talent not results) and he still mananged to get killed where there had been no fatalities for 10 years then 2 ont he same weekend.

saying that a rider can save himself in accident cause he is experienced is ludicrous. thats why they call it an accident. your out of control. if you were in control, by definition you wouldnt be having an accidnet. The amount of impact required to cause a brain injury is remarably small.

on the whole, i shun do gooders and their silly policies, but things like this is where i take a stand. If somthing is availiable to make it safer at little or no coast in weight or performance then it should be done.

In this world of skyrocketing insurance premiums and public liability , have a think about Lance , Ullrick, Hamilton etc having a freak accident and either ending up a vege or dying ( touch wood, i woudlnt wish it on anyone) what would that do to insurance on bike clubs as a whole as well as the tour? especially if it was shown by a coroner that wearing a simple damn helmet.

my 2 cents.
HDTVKSS is offline  
Old 07-16-04, 12:15 AM
  #47  
Raiyn
I drink your MILKSHAKE
 
Raiyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 15,061

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by H_Roark
Oh, jebus...the safety nazis are all set to begin inveighing. Try this-mind your own damn business! Let the *professional* riders and team managers perform their own risk assesment.
First rule of online arguments. Refer to someone as a Nazi and YOU LOSE
__________________
Raiyn is offline  
Old 07-16-04, 12:16 AM
  #48  
ed073
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,410

Bikes: Scapin EOS7 sloping, 10v Record, Ksyriums

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Raiyn
First rule of online arguments. Refer to someone as a Nazi and YOU LOSE
2nd rule is they are all pretty meaningless and prove we have nothing better to do with our time.
ed073 is offline  
Old 07-16-04, 12:19 AM
  #49  
Raiyn
I drink your MILKSHAKE
 
Raiyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 15,061

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp, 1999 Specialized Hardrock Comp FS, 1971 Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by ed073
2nd rule is they are all pretty meaningless and prove we have nothing better to do with our time.
A point well taken
__________________
Raiyn is offline  
Old 07-16-04, 12:23 AM
  #50  
ed073
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,410

Bikes: Scapin EOS7 sloping, 10v Record, Ksyriums

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Raiyn
A point well taken

......
ed073 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.