macbobster

Yes! I actually ordered some Tektro levers that have dual leverage, as the U brake takes the short pull. I've run into this before when putting a caliper on the front and Vee on the back of a BMX cruiser. Gotta at least have matching levers, if you have "stupid" looking Veez, LOL.

seeker333

I'm glad you are informed. If you don't like the Shimano Vs, then take a look at Avid SD (single digit) 7 brakes, I've used them for for a long time/many miles, they are an excellent rim brake.

macbobster

Thank all you guys for the tips and tricks. I have always stayed away from V brakes. I never thought they looked stupid though, just kind of goofy. Any way I have heard of Avid V's being good, my wife's bike has the single digit 3. So what is the difference between the 3, 5, and 7 single digits? BTW I am old school retro. I told my business manager I needed a new disc brake carbon fiber squishy bike and she reminded me we have a new couch.

Leebo

^^^ I know the avid 7's have a reach adjust for the lever, a nice feature. Guessing they are probably lighter too.

cyccommute 

All of the Avids (as well as most other mountain bike brake levers) have a reach adjustment. It's the set screw that is usually placed in the middle of the mount. The adjuster on the Avid Speed Dial brake lever is meant to change the leverage point which can change the way the braking characteristics. It moves the pivot point up and down so that the cable pull is shorter or longer. The lower end brake levers from Avid don't have this feature. The higher end ones do. Currently Avid only seems to make the 5 (without speed dial) and 7 (with speed dial)

Leebo

^^^ This, haven't used mine in a bit.

BikeWonder

I know this isn't a Canti Vs Disc comparison, but I'd like the chime in with my experience of canti's so far.

I used Shimano XT/SLR canti's on my 1991 1000 LT from Calgary to Vancouver this summer through the Rockies. I used Koolstop Salmon pads front and rear. Total weight including myself and the bike was around 210-220 lb.

These brakes saved my life more than once, even in wet conditions, or while descending 8-11% gradient roads down and through the mountains. The front brakes wore about 30% so far and the rear 15%.

My bike stops better than my friend's new Kona Dew disc brake commuter. I know it's a weird comparison, but I realized I don't need disc brakes when having a good cantilever brakes and pads makes a huge improvement.

With respect to rim wear, some rims wear more than others, but that is to be expected. I like to think that the wear of a rim from braking should last the lifespan of the use of it as well (rim integrity from riding around). If my rims get to a point where the surface is worn from braking, it's probably time to replace the rim as well as the structural integrity could be compromised from years or miles of use.

seeker333

I do not recall the differences between the various SD models, and they appear to be discontinued, as SRAM/Avid website lists only disc brakes now. I do recall that I once bought SD5s to save a few bucks and returned them, so stick with SD7 (if you can find them). Nearly 20 years ago these were offered with titanium hardware and/or magnesium arms, they were pretty fancy for V brakes.

SD7s made between 2014 to apparently end-of-production in 2017 were subject to recall, avoid these.

stardognine

Thanks for posting this. 👍 I wasn't aware they were recalled, but knew I liked the older versions, so might easily have bought some.

macbobster

As you all see I'm the 'newbie' here, thanks again for all this good info. Couldn't find it but did someone mention using derailleur housing instead of brake housing? Would that be kosher? I thought about that but the SIS stuff I have is small OD, so I would need to do some creative ferruling. I am also pondering switching to Vees on the front of my '91 ST600. I have some cool XT canti's that would go on the back. Hey Vees on the front, canti's on the back, oh yeh.

Tourist in MSN

Compressionless derailleur housing can be unsafe when used for brake cables because brakes can put a lot more compression on the housing than derailleurs, they are not designed for that and can fail. And when your brake cable fails, so do your brakes, possibly catastrophically.

djb

for Mr Mac,
heed this sound advice, don't ever mix up the two. Do google searches for images of the visual differences so that you dont make the mistake, its fairly easy to differentiate the two by eye.

macbobster

Got it! This is exactly what I was thinking. Maybe I was reading that some brake cable housing was better / stiffer than others? Lately I have been using Shimano housing as I get killer deals from Cross Lake sales on eBay. I will need to get more brake cables and housing soon however. Thanks again for help and advise. Been riding and working on bikes since the early sixties and love to keep learning!

Tourist in MSN

There is compressionless cable housing for brakes, but it specifically is labeled for brakes.

When I built up a bike with a TRP Spyre rear brake, the instructions for the brake specifically recommended compressionless brake housing. I used some that was Aztek brand. Jagwire and a few other companies make it too. It was stiffer housing than other brake cable housing. I used it for all but the short length of regular housing which I used under the bar tape between my brake levers and interrupter brake levers.

My road bike came with much stiffer brake housing, I assume it is also compressionless.

Tourist in MSN

Years ago before indexed shifting became the norm, all cable was made the same way as brake cable housing. But indexed shifting needed more precision in the cable position at the derailleur, thus compressionless shifting outer housing was created.

My Rohloff bike, the shifting is indexed in the hub, not the shifter. It uses two cables, pull on one to up shift and pull on the other to downshift. The two cables are normally slack. Thus, precision in cable position is not as important. Thus, Rohloffs are usually set up with brake cable outer housing, just like older friction shifting bikes.

djb

yes, this is what I had read about compressionless brake housing, like what Touristmsn mentions here, about it being better for disc brake setups.

djb

MacBob--this was my same experience setting up my disc braked bike with new housings because I changed the bars and needed longer ones.
I too had read to use compressionless housing for brakes, and bought some probably by the same brands as Tourist mentions. Its supposed to help reduce lever mushiness with disc setups that put more force into the cables.
I was learning as I went, so just followed suggestions and the setup works fine.

macbobster

Alrighty then, I've got some Deore Vees, Kool Stop pads and compressionless brake housing on the way. By this time next week I can report on the results. If you never hear from me again I was probably killed by being thrown over the bars by my upgraded near hydro-disc level V-brake / U-brake setup. BTW should I start a new thread or just keep this one going?

Cheers, MAC

seeker333

This info perhaps too late, but OP should know traditional brake housing incorporates an internal spiral, flat steel wire. Once you've cut housing to length, you need to file the corner off the steel wire (it'll stick out a bit) for a neat 90 degree end so that housing seats properly.

An easier and lighter solution is kevlar brake housing, which replaces the steel wire with kevlar threads, so no difficult cutting or filing required. Jagwire has made this for over a decade, it used to be called Ripcord. Nashbar used to sell a rebranded Ripcord for 1/3 the price of Jagwire, I've bought and used many of these and they work well, never had a problem. Ripcord weighs perhaps 1/3-1/2 the weight of traditional steel core brake housing. Also, you can use kevlar brake housing for both brake and shifter housing, although Jagwire does sell brake and shifter specific housing.

djb

if you are deceased, it's highly unlikely you'll be able to use a keyboard, so its a moot point.
We may still have a Ouiji board somewhere, so I'll dust it off and await your posthumous report and then will fill in here.

one of my bikes has v brakes and I find them to be more "on or off" compared to cantis or discs. More powerful than cantis, but mine are harder to modulate at the point of really hard braking. I have pitched myself over the bars on that bike once on pavement a long time ago, reacting to a dangerous car situation and throwing out the anchors full stop--so at least do some hard braking testing and get a feel for them in case they are similar. My bike had an aggressive 90's low handlebar position, so that didnt help body weight wise, forward and down.

macbobster

Well now I'm worried, my favorite big time descent is blacked out for cell phone coverage so they may have to call in the coast guard for an air rescue. Found some JagWire Ripcord, might as well stock up on supplies. If my old shool V/U brake setup is too much I can always go back to a canti on the front. I'm getting close to 10 posts so I can show you all my antique trail bike.

djb

I've heard the comment about them being more *on off* from others, but you'll have to see how the front is for you.
In any case, with some panniers and perhaps not a low straight bar combined with an aggressive mtb front end from the 90s, ie low down, it's not a big deal imo.
Just be aware and do a bunch of emergency stop tests and you should be able to get a feel for it.

stardognine

Cutting those steel inner housings is a royal pain, unless you have the right tool for the job. 😉 I used to have some nice Klein cutters, that got stolen, and have some others now, really old with no name, but maybe just as good as the Kleins. Even if I screw up the end of the metal (not likely) on the initial cut, it's super easy to just trim that little nub off. I consider good cutters as necessary weight, especially while touring. 👍

Tourist in MSN

MacB.., I assume you have a good quality cable cutter. If not, that can come in really handy for cutting outer housing, you might want to get one.

I think mine is a Sram one, it has an awl built into one handle so I can use that to open up the end if the end of the housing gets crimped after cutting.

I hope you have better luck than I did, on my last tour one of the brake cable housings punched through a ferrule, needless to say my brake did not work so well after that.

djb

I agree that it's worth saving up and getting a really good housing and cable cutter, totally worth it in the long run--but taking it touring?
that just doesn't make sense.