safariofthemind

One alternative you did not mention is buying a used cyclo cross bike and adding a rack. They have the right geometry and many have the right braze ons. Check on a used Surly Cross Check for example. A used older mountain bike with a rigid fork can also be had for under 200 dollars and easily modified to do the job plus it has the right gear ratios already. I recently reconditioned an old Jamis Diablo for less than that for off road touring. Don't let the equipment choices stop you.

safariofthemind

I agree with mulveyr. There is a point of diminishing returns where you trade big dollars for small weight gains. If you visit the backpacking forums you'll notice experienced packers don't do that because it is too costly. They work on the principle of "good enough" and making do. They also trade dollars for comfort sometimes, such as using a tarp versus a tent. That is a very personal choice. Minimalists may even just carry a bivy sack and a camping hammock. It is wise to start small, then add what you need if you want more comfort IMO.

h_curtis

I do have a tent, bag, thermorest already. They are light, but not the extreme light. My tent sleeps two and I agree, I really didn't want a tiny tent. I might want to sit up and have a bit to eat if it is raining like crazy, or stay there until I am ready if bad weather is going on.

nun

Lightweight can be expensive, but some lightweight stuff is really inexpensive eg cooking stuff and my tent cost $199 which is cheaper than many tents. You don't need to spend lots of cash to reduce your load the most important factor is to change you assumptions and mindset and pack sensibly. Racks and panniers are heavy in themselves so by keeping the big 4 light and small in volume you get the added benefit of being able to use lighter, smaller bags too. Clothes are also a place where people over pack.

I'll only give up 95% of my comfort so I chose my tent to be lightweight and single walled, but I had to be able to sit up in it and it had to have a vestibule. The Contrail fits the bill nicely.

indyfabz

1. You can ship a B.O.B. for very little money. Shipped my entire bike UPS from the east coast to Missoula, MT for around $45 one way.

2. Not sure what you are talking about with putting part of the front panniers on the back. The front bags in my setup have more weight in them than the rear. With the tent and heaviest part of the human body on sitting on the back of the bike, this balances the load better. Throw too muich weight on the back and you needlessly stress your rear wheel. You might also find yourself popping wheelies on steep grade. And what you are looking at isn't a whole lot for a week-long trip where rain, snow and cold temperatures were distinct possibilities. While I carry a few kitchen items that most probably wound't because I like to cook more elaborate meals on tour when possible, they add very little to the volume. Clothes-wise, I carry pretty much the bare minimum except for maybe an extra set of riding clothes, which is something some people do without.

nun

Amen!

cappuccino911

One option to you since you are new to this and probably want to make alimited investment is the Nashbar Touring bike. I can already see myself doing that as my next project. they ahve the frame for $99 and the fork for $70. And it's nashbar so you know that there is always going to be some sort of sale to give you 20% off that. It has 132.5mm dropouts so you can go with MTB or road hubs in the back. There is a thread on here of someon who ddid a gorgeous build with one.

Carbonfiberboy 

Agree with nun. He doesn't know it, but he was my guru is deciding how to go. Rear panniers are plenty. Bar bag if you have a bike with the geometry to make it safe and comfortable. Easy to get 40 lbs into two rear panniers, and you only need 20-25. Then you can run a carbon fork, the greatest innovation in modern biking other than tires.

Bike Nashbar frames are great and very comfortable. Barcons will keep the weight and cost down. Get a triple for the front. 12-34 is great for the rear, but hard to find and it depends on who you are and where you ride.

Yes, always a tent one person larger than the party size. The comfort is worth the tiny added weight.

zeppinger

I have crossed several countries with this setup but now use a typical four panniers method so I can bring along a few luxuries. I don't really notice if it slows me down much. I am usually having too much fun riding to worry about it!

h_curtis

Great picture. Nice set up. I think I am going for a little lighter set up. I travel light even when I am in a dumb car. Just don't like too much stuff.

jharte

The absolute best thing about touring is how personal it is. I read CC touring threads and sagged touring threads with intrigue. I've actually never gone on tour without my bags loaded. I'm sure I'll try it some day and probably like it.

My last trip was a little over 1000 mi/ two weeks of pure work/joy. When I left home my bike weighed 92lbs. It probably weighed more when I got home because I bought some stuff on the way. I carried everything I needed for a typical solo loaded touring trip. The bike was heavy but rode smooth as glass. MY favorite way to travel.

Personally I don't disagree with any touring setup if it works for the rider. It's all part of the fun of learning what one likes and what works for the rider. For me the bike and gear is the transportation and freedom to get me somewhere. Hell, I don't even care WHERE that somewhere is!

Jerry H

jharte

So far one of my favorite trips. KCMO to Marietta, GA. Sun drying my clean clothes on the back.

Jerry H

skilsaw

Learn by doing. Listen to what people who have done it have to say, then do it yourself. Real personal experience is a better teacher than all the opinions in the world.

chasm54

Pretty much everything depends on how much you are carrying. If the total weight is under about 30 lbs I'd be prepared to go with rear panniers only. More than that, and I find the bike handles much better with some of the weight low down at the front. I like my creature comforts - two man tent to give me some room, a couple of changes of clothes if I decide to stop in a town and explore for a day or three, and so on - so my total load for an extended tour is usually about 50 lbs, and at that weight a four-pannier set up works best for me. I absolutely accept that this means I go slower, but the difference is less than one might expect and hey - I'm touring, not riding a brevet.

staehpj1

Just a few comments on some of what has been discussed here...

First, you can go pretty light and still keep costs down on at least some items. A few things that come to mind are

• Panniers - Nashbar or Performance waterproof ones are inexpensive and much lighter than most while still being durable enough.
• Stoves - Pop can stoves are essentially free and very light. The fuel is heavier per BTU, but that isn't so much of an issue for bike touring since you can carry less of it and restock frequently. A Pocket Rocket is light and pretty cheap.
• Pots and Pans - These can be very light without going high dollar especially if you limit yourself to one very thin gauge pot. We carried one pot for the three of us on the Trans America and managed some fairly elaborate meals.
• Tents - just going with a smaller tent can get the weight pretty low. For example the Eureka Solitaire can be found for $50. Higher end tents can be found on sale at close out prices if you watch for them.
• Sleeping Pads - Inexpensive foam pads work in a pinch and are light weight. That said this is an area where I splurged and bought a NeoAir which was obscenely expensive but is extremely light, packs tiny, and is very comfortable.
• Sleeping Bags - I managed to finish the TA with a $70 Slumberjack SuperGuide. It weighs a fairly light 2 pounds 9 ounces and Campmor now has it for $50. the rating is a bit optimistic, but with the addition of some clothes piled on top of my body inside the bag, I was comfortable down to 30 F or so. It isn't my first choice of bags and I have since replaced it with something more expensive, but it was OK.

Also you can go lighter just by skipping some items completely. If you look at some packing lists you can get by without more than half of the stuff on them.

Something was said about needing more for longer tours. I don't find that to be the case. I need the same stuff for a few days as I would for 3 months.

Oh and the comments about space in the tent... Just me, but I prefer to leave anything I don't need in the tent on the bike and in the panniers. On a rainy day I might sleep in late or read for a while, but get up and move on after a bit. I am more likely to try harder to camp somewhere that I am under a roof like a picnic pavilion or whatever and am also more likely to get up and go to a diner for breakfast if it is raining and there is one within an hour of riding or less.

h_curtis

Thank you all for so much great advice. I envisioned myself riding down the road with a rack on the back of my bike with a big blue floating bag that has what I need and a handlebar bag for quick get stuff. Maybe a front rack with some stuff on that. Still might go that route, but I probably need to get the gear together and see how small I can go. I have a tent (Kelty two person dome) that I do like. I can hang out in that tent and not feel like I am in some tiny cocoon. Have a sleeping bag that is light, but not that tiny. Thermarest that works. well enough. I want to be able to sleep in some comfort. I am 45 years old, not 25 when I slept on a floor for a year. Hope I can do this trip very cheap. My goal is as cheap as I can and document the expense of the trip, so people that are really on a budget can see how cheap you can do it. I suspect food will be the biggest expense, but I hope to eat at grocery stores most of the time. Probably always have peanut butter and bread on hand. Cheap and good fuel. Cliff bars come to mind as well.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, absolutely assemble the gear and then decide how to pack it. Volume may be a greater concern than weight. We put everything made of fabric in waterproof compression sacks, like these:
https://www.rei.com/search?query=compression+sacks

We used the Sea to Summit. One 14L held our tent and sleeping bag. The others were 6L.

A 1-2 day resupply at grocery stores doesn't add too much weight or volume. Way to go. Eat fruit, better than Clif bars. Day-old coffee cake is great. Makes a wonderful no-cook breakfast, then up the road.

h_curtis

Those sacks are better than what I have. Might have to splurge on one of those. Thanks. I don't think I will have cooking gear at all. I don't really care about hot meals and figure so many grocery stores have a readymade food section. Lots of times you can get chicken thighs for very cheap and a couple of sides. Dinner only. Breakfast, lunch and snacks will be cold food. I don't really need more than that even when I am at home living normal.

chasm54

OK, but hot drinks can be nice, especially if you're some distance from civilisation and it's cold. I use one of these. Not the cheapest, but packs fairly light and small (the burner and fuel canister pack inside the pot) and brilliantly efficient.

kerrysco

You sound like a pioneer. Don't trust the proven lore. Load your gear high and behind you to reduce wind drag. Go with light backpacker gear. Then be sure and create an account on Crazy Guy and write about your experience. Maybe we will all learn the error of our ways. Be sure and include the weight of your kit and how "backpackers" don't need to carry tools for their mechanical steeds. Or extra tubes, spokes, etc. Also let us know how that high load affects you when in a 30mph side wind. Include what happens to stability when you fly down a big hill at 40mph. Let us know your impressions when you pass by a small mom and pop diner, getting a wiff of the food, while contemplating a freeze dried dinner or power bar. We can probably all learn a lot.

nun

It's nice to have cooking gear. After I've pitch the tent and have a shower I brew some tea. Take a look at the Trangia mini and the cook sets at Antigravitygear.

https://wheelsofchance.org/2010/05/26...-one-day-tour/

Bekologist

the bikes handling will be best with the loads closest to the axis of the wheels.

desire to do the trip total dirtbag style, going on the cheap, who even needs panniers? just wrap everything in a big blue tarp and bungie cord it to the top of the rack, add some boards in the roll to lend support, and go!

you'll have a great time discovering your ideal packing method.

methods I have used, from ultralite, to light, to fully loaded with winter camping equipment, skis and ski gear.

LeeG

sounds like an NRS dry bag with shoulder straps. No you aren't out of your mind, you're applying your experience to a new challenge. You may find that a big blue bag loaded up full and placed on the rear rack will be an ungainly load to secure and it will move your cg to far back. The other problem is that for the same rims, spokes and number of spokes front wheels are stronger than rear wheels so putting too much weight on the rear wheel negatively affects handling and overly stresses the rear wheel to failure.

LeeG

Wind resistance isn't much of a factor when your average speed is 10-12mph. If you're averaging 15+ then it does make a difference. So first off you'd have to have the motor and lungs to average that speed and fortunately if you carry very little gear it's easier to maintain a higher average speed. Once you put on 30lbs of gear and there's any incline you can pretty much throw the need for speed out the window.

I can notice wind resistance with low riders, especially on a 26" wheeled bike from the ground effect but If I'm carrying so much gear that I start screwup up handling by overloading the rear wheel then moving some of that weight onto the stronger front wheel makes sense. Using low riders you put the weight in line with the steerer tube which doesn't affect the steering adversely compared to putting it up above the front wheel.

So basically if you're concerned about wind resistance then you're riding a very light rig and are fit enough to maintain a high average where wind resistance becomes signficant. You could put a couple small stuff sack in line on the rack and a small bag on the handlebars and other parts of the frame.

But if you're carrying 30lbs worth that can fit in your big dry bag you aren't going fast up any incline, your speeds downhill won't change your average for the day compared to uphill speed and spreading that load low and not just on the rear wheel makes your rear wheel last longer and bike handle better.

My $.02 is get a bike that can carry your max anticipated load then experiment with trips starting with the lightest load that meets your desire for least wind resistance and max speed then try different combinations as you increase the load to what you would carry in that big blue dry bag.

I've set up a Cross-Check with a similar criteria. Small front rack, narrow rear rack with medium sized panniers. I can strap small dry bags on the front rack or medium compression sack on top with the rear panniers and tent on rack. Reduced wind drag isn't the motivation as much as a rig where I'm not expecting to carry more than 25lbs. and I want some of that weight forward. Once the weight goes up I'll want more on the front wheel and I'm not going fast.

When I was young and fast I toured with 10-15lbs of gear where it didn't rain in the summer.

btw, regarding aerodynamics all this is assuming you're in an aero position with drop bars 3" or so below your seat height.

safariofthemind

+1 on the wind resistance. It's over hyped for touring speeds. Same with tire rolling resistance and carbon anything. Your own fitness level and the comfort of your riding position will have a far greater impact on your ability to tour given properly maintained equipment.