nayr497

Yelling at someone is worse than choosing to pass so closely that one small deviation from the motorist or cyclist could result in serious injury or even death?

Not in my book. I have zero patience for motorists who don't respect the lives and space of non-motorists.

MattTheHat 

The yelling sounded fairly extreme if the poster's throat was sore the following day. I don't like close passes either, but when it's all said and done, the driver did not hit him. And "close pass" is in the eye of the beholder. I know for myself, when I zone out and a car passes me when I'm not really thinking about it, it always seems closer than it is.

Now if the driver appeared to purposely swerve, that's a different story, and one in which a complaint needs to be filed.

If I came home to find a man screaming at my wife...for a close pass or any other reason...I would not be happy with said man. Yelling "TOO CLOSE" as he rides by...fair enough. Anything more aggressive is not okay, in my opinion.


-Matt

Spoonrobot 

Here's my original post, since you are using it to create a situation that did not occur. It was not a close pass.

A close pass is not in the eye of the beholder. It is statutorily defined in Georgia, as the road I was on was 11 feet wide, her car (a late 90s Caramro) a little less than 7 feet wide, there was no legal way to make the pass. Her clearly communicated intent was to use her motor vehicle to threaten me. Her actions were well past the threshold for what Georgia requires for filing of a charge of simple assault. In this case I made a judgement call that her eventual apologetic tone and the long response time for a non-emergency (dispatch quoted as 1 hour), that this incident could be concluded without a police report. I still have the option to file a report as I have her information and reports for motor vehicle violations and misdemeanor assault have very low evidentiary thresholds due to their low enforcement/penalty status.

As always:

adablduya

nice ! my years-ago anecdote went like this: as i ready to turn right onto a 4-lane divided street to start my ride, a car passes by with 2 "youngsters" who felt it appropriate to yell whatever derogatory-isms at me. they drive on down the street toward a red light intersection, at which they had to stop. well, i catch up to them causally, and stop right next to the passenger side window. the 2 kids were stone-faced, facing forward, not moving a bit, apparently knowing i caught up to them. i tap on the window. no reaction. i tap harder. nothing (as i check their seats to see if they are pissing on themselves...). once more, i knock a bit harder on the window. nothing but fear in their faces ! green light, they speed off as i move along, laughing my ass off. hoping they learned a lesson.

MattTheHat 

Okay, I apologize, I missed the part where she honked and shouted obscenities. Honestly I did. Had I been on the receiving end, I would likely have filed charges.

-Matt

adablduya

a close pass is somewhat subjective, of course. anything more menacing or appearing to be deliberate, that's something else entirely. now, if anyone behaved threateningly towards me on my bike, i may well react as harshly as the poster of that response. now, if you arrived on the scene and witnessed me berating your wife, with all due respect, i would not care whether or not you were happy about it.

MattTheHat 

I'll step away from the thread at this point.


-Matt

I-Like-To-Bike

Bottom line for this thread:
Harassment of a bicyclist is defined as whatever action a bicyclist says it is; any response that the "harassed" bicyclist thinks is an appropriate way to respond is considered appropriate by many BF posters; law enforcement officials as well as the alleged harasser may not share that view and may counter-respond in ways that the bicyclist may not like.

t_e_r_r_y

i was track standing at a stop sign on a surface street in my town waiting on traffic of a pretty busy cross street this morning, when i noticed someone pull up behind me. they were revving their engine and i could hear them saying something, but it didn't really register it was all directed at me until traffic cleared and i started to cross. he was in an old open-top jeep and turning onto the street i was stopped at and yelling profanities and telling me to get off the street. i offered up my middle finger and politely invited him to eat my butt hole and i could nearly see the steam shooting out of his ears. he was all over the road (due to looking back over his shoulder at me) and trying to get me to turn around and, i assume, have a more personal discussion about how he doesn't feel bicycles belong in the street, but i just laughed and went on my merry way to work.

this area is pretty rural and has a really bad meth problem. i'm not trying to make assumptions about the guy, but he looked like someone who could have used once or twice (a day), and i'm not really much of a fighter, so it's probably a good thing i kept going. it does, however, have me thinking. i'm wondering what i should do to protect myself in the future. i do lots of trail and single track riding out in the sticks around here, and plan on some weekend or longer bikepacking trips soon - while bears aren't really something to worry about in my area, i'm thinking it might be a good idea to have some bear spray on a quick release strap on my bars, just in case.

also thinking about dropping some money on one of those tail light camera jobs posted above. hmm

Rollfast

That explains Mongols on elephants alright.

livedarklions

Why don't you enlighten us with what you do or don't consider harassment and how you do or don't respond to it instead of engaging in your umpteenth "tsk tsk" post? Frankly, I have no idea why you think your observations of what's wrong with BF posters is supposed to interest anyone, it's just basic trolling without purpose.

I-Like-To-Bike

Read post https://www.bikeforums.net/21064868-post111.html for enlightenment if you should so choose; or continue to snipe/snark away at posters who don't meet your approval, or at posts in which YOU claim YOU are not interested.

livedarklions

No, you're doing the exact same thing you do with the Walmart bike bit. I just asked you to actually contribute something informative about harassment instead of yet another "BF posters" whine, and you respond by just linking back to the "BF posters" whine. If you remember the Walmart thing, I suggested to you that maybe you should say something about how to tell a good cheap bike from a bad one, and all you did was continue with your usual "bike snobs" whine. Basically, you're just whiny.


You are, however, an excellent troll. I will give you that.

Brocephus

^
BAZINGA`!!!

350htrr

OK, I did not read through this whole tread, since I had a thread about this same subject 5 or so years ago.... and... this is my SOLUTION... every time someone does something you think is in-appropriate/dangerous to you personally, passing you too close, cutting you off, opening the passenger door to scare you, or even just passing you within a foot and leaving a foot or two towards the centre line... I say this to myself... I Hope you have a bad day, (to myself) like we both would have had, if you would have miss-judged your maneuver, just a little bit/a weeee bit to much and bumped me into the ditch... I say that EVERY time someone pisses me off/scares me...

BUT guess what... I also say (to myself) things like I hope you have a great day, I hope you have a great holiday, or I hope you have a great week, … and I end up having a good ride 99.99% of the time because the good always outweighs the bad... IN MY EXPERIANCE, anyways...

Jim from Boston

Your approach is remarkably similar to mine that I have posted on a few threads, including earlier on this one:

Daniel4

Don't respond to harrassers. Don't feed the trolls. They'll only come back with snarky remarks making them sound like a broken record.

Meanerspice

I usually just put headphones on and whenever they try to honk or say something I just pretend like I can't hear them.

Retfor

the other day, someone honked at me, so i slowed down and made them miss the light. if they had just been patient, i wouldve been out of their way soon and they wouldve made it.

Paul Barnard

Although I do sometimes have something to say to mouthy drivers, for the most part I just let the verbal harassment go. Buzz me or endanger me, and I will engage you. I have motioned for people to come back to discuss their actions with me. Only one ever took me up on it, and he apologized. Make no mistake about it, I am not a badass. I have had 5 shoulder surgeries and have half an artificial shoulder joint right now. Combing my hair is a challenge. I just don't suffer threats casually.

I rarely have any issues though. I ride respectfully and choose my roads and my times on those roads carefully.

Paul Barnard

I will continue to break traffic laws when it serves the greater good of my safety and overall traffic flow. I don't feel any duty whatsoever to appease law breaking motorists by not breaking the law. Drivers steam about our mere presence on the road. They steam about our "Spandex." They steam about riders wearing jerseys with logos. They steam about us riding outside of the door zone of parked cars. They steam about us not paying taxes even though we do. They steam about all kinds of nonsensical crap that has nothing to do with them. There is something about cyclists that just causes motorists to steam, and I'll be damned if I am going to cater to their pettiness.

I absolutely work cooperatively with traffic when I bicycle. There are times I'll pull off the road to let traffic by if I need to. I am always looking to mesh with motor vehicle traffic as seamlessly as I safely can. I do it when I drive too. I even do it when I walk.

Milton Keynes

Luckily I've never had much problem with harassment. I live in the Midwest in a rural area, and you'd think that the guys driving jacked-up pickups with huge mud tires would have little regard for cyclists. But generally everyone who passes me gives me plenty of room.

Only once would I consider myself to ever been "harassed," and that was once near the 4th of July when a couple of kids in a pickup threw a firecracker at me. Don't know if they were trying to scare me into wrecking or what, but it'll take a little more than a firecracker to make me lose control.

downhillmaster

On the flip side I always make sure to give a nice little thank you wave to drivers who acknowledge me and wait to pull out from a side street in front of me.
Not the drivers that do weird **** just because they see a bike though. Just the courteous ones with what you can tell is a little extra bicycle awareness

Koyote

Like downhillmaster, I wave, smile, and mouth "thank you!" to drivers who go out of their way to be courteous to me. And most motorists are reasonable and even courteous. I have also, on one or two occasions, chased down a motorist in order to apologize after I've done something boneheaded. I think we need to help create positive feelings towards cyclists.

I have only been harassed once or twice; more common is the motorist who endangers me through inattention or the mistaken belief that cars always have the right-of-way over bikes and even pedestrians. With such people, I'm not sure that calm logic will ever make a dent.

I did once chase down a woman who, in just one intersection, managed to endanger my wife twice while executing a turn. After catching her in her driveway, I explained just how much she'd be liable for in the event of a wrongful death lawsuit -- basically, the present value of my young (and very well-educated) wife's lifetime earnings stream. After running through the 'back of the envelope' calculations aloud, I asked if she had a couple million bucks in the bank - or at least that much insurance coverage. "Well, no...." was the answer.

adablduya

i had a very similar incident years ago. 2 punks thought it would be funny to shout insults as they drove by. i caught them 1/4 mile up the street at a red light. pulled up to the passenger window (it was rolled-up now...). tapped on it a few times. no reaction from either kid. tapped again, a little harder. again, nothing (i was looking for wet spots on their pants at this point...). i never said a word, just letting my menacing presence scare the crap out of them. very amusing !