Nick Bain

I just slammed the seat forward on both bikes so my knee is over the spindle also bought a zero setback to acheive this on one bike. My calfs do not like this at all and I do feel slower and like not riding after the first half hour. I am wondering if Moving the cleats back all the way would help. Also I am 6'1'' and am contemplating trying a 54cm size as I have a 56 and 58 but if I move the seat back to where its more comfortable I would have to put a 80mm stem on which makes handling too twitchy.

achoo

KOPS is crap.

Why does your knee have to be in ANY relation to the pedals? Do the knees of recumbent riders spontaneously explode because the crankset is out in front of them?

Spoonrobot 

I'm not here to help you, I'm just waiting for the inevitable temper tantrum when you don't get the advice you want.

bianchi10

thats a completely different riding position. Your knee SHOULD have relation to the foot placement. some just prefer it to be more for or aft. I like to have my knee over my spindle but thats what works and feels best for me. if it feels best for you to not have your knee over your spindle then dont. I started cycling on a 55 and went to a 54. I'm 5'10" and a 54 feels just right. I prefer a slightly smaller frame. I feel better fitting "on" the bike vs "in" the bike. Try a smaller frame if you have the ability to. you might like the feeling as I do.

pdedes

incremental changes are best to allow your body to adapt. all this slamming will cause you extreme discomfort. it takes a while for your body to become accustomed to any changes. patience is your friend.

or perhaps you have a very irregularly shaped body. surgery might be necessary.

SCochiller

Mine is KOPS, or slightly forward, not that it matters.

datlas 

KOPS is a general rule. It's a good starting point. Not dogma. Tweak incrementally per your preference.

BTW I ride KOPS and it seems to be a good fit.

grasse

KOPS is a good start but not exact science... https://sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

ultraman6970

Right now I cant tell you, changed the saddle for a wider one (same model but wider) and still cant find myself in the darn bike But im about KOPS almost all the time.

Dean V

54 is quite small for someone that is 6'1". What is your inseam or saddle height? I am 5'11" and ride a 56 with a 110mm stem. Saddle 3 1/8" behind BB and 30 3/4" high.

Nick Bain

31'' saddle height from the spindle on 175 mm cranks.

After 4 anti kops posts you can figure out why I would get surly. I did not even ask whether or not anyone agrees with kops. Yes I have read the kops articles.

To those who are runnning kops any idea why my calfs would be acting up?

part of the reason I am running kops is so can utilise a long enough stem.

RedViola

I've never adhered to KOPS, but isolating the problem(s) will be more difficult if you alter multiple factors simultaneously.

As long as the saddle forward position is only inducing muscle fatigue and not actual pain, I say give it a bit more time to before adjusting cleat position and/or frame size, if need be.

lazerzxr

Werkin

One of my knees is in front of the spindle, and the other over.


A good starting place is ball of the foot ahead of the pedal spindle, https://www.d2shoe.com/home/cleatplacement.html. For many shoes that means moving the cleat all the way rearward. If you've experienced toe numbness definitely move the cleats back.


Pedaling toe down, heal up, when not accustomed can tense the calf muscles. Perhaps you were pedaling heel down with the seat positioned further back and now have changed? I tend to push with heel down from the back of the saddle, and spin toe down when on the nose. A large change in seating position can require an adjustment period for some people.

Campag4life

Sounds like your fit is off across the board. I am 6'1" on a 58 with 140mm stem and a fair amount of setback...a bit over 100mm. How can you create any power riding in that position? KOPS is crap as mentioned by many.
As to calve pain...moving cleats back generally will help because it promotes less ankling and reduces leverage to the achilles. I ride with about 13mm aft of the ball of my foot.
Good luck in your search for a good fit...something we all try. A consideration is throw out everything you think you know about your fit and framesize and plug your nos. into the Competitive fit on line calculator. I bet it will give you a very different fit scenario than you are attempting on a small frame with short stem.

slowandsteady

I change the fit of my bike my mm. There is no slamming, no plumb bobs, levels, strings, or rulers. If a body part hurts, I make a minor tweak to my fit. If it doesn't hurt I leave it alone.

UCIMBZ

Behind.

Trucker Dan

Your seat is too high. If your leg doesn't have enough bend at the 3:00 position, you're have to slam your saddle forward to get to kops.

tagaproject6

When you change the dynamic of the way you pedal and apply force to your calves in a manner that it is not accustomed, you will be informed by way of your calves "acting up".

Bacciagalupe

If your knee is too far back on the downstroke (3:00), you will put additional stress on the patella tendon.


Recumbent fitting is a completely different ball of string. But yes, you can still get knee problems as a result of a poor fit on a recumbent.

Bacciagalupe

As usual, I think you'd benefit from working with a good fitter.

If you can't figure out whether to use a 54, 56 or 58 bike, I think you will really benefit from a fitter who can do your measurements, observe your pedal stroke, and identify issues. In most cases, the fit you get on one bike can be transferred to another, or the fitter can tell you how to set up the other bike.

pdedes

do you have lobster arms?

Campag4life

Bacci,
Can you sight your reference for this assertion? I am hard pressed to understand why any knee problems could accrue due to fore/aft rider position.
I will give you anecdotal reason why. There is major difference in rider fore/aft orientation of a road bike...or even a cruiser with massive saddle setback compared to a TT bike. This doesn't affect knee health.
Saddle distance from the crank is pretty critical of course due to knee bend...but would sure like to see an explanation based upon bio mechanics for what you say is true.
Also...define 'too far back' if you would.
Thanks

Nick Bain

Yes both in length and in color.

Update: started a ride on tuesday, 2nd one with seat slammed, the first being on sunday, and knees were hurting above the knee cap in addition to calves and feeling slow. So I put the seat in the middle of the post. Now I feel like a pro. SO I can safely say kops was not working for me and I prefer the knee behind by about 1 inch. Just to shut out any doubt, in a kops fit would there be other factors that would stimulate knee and calf pain? the only other thing I can think of is cleat fore and aft.

Next I will try moving they cleats all the way back as that would move my foot forward and counter act the forward knee position.