krispenhartung

This is what I gag down every day:

GNC Beta Alanine (before workout...lactic acid buffer)

GNC Creatine (before workout and sometimes after)

GNC Mass Builder (after workouts about 600 calories per scoop, has both protein and carbs...I tend to consume 50% of the calories I burn in a workout for recovery, restore glycogen in the muscles, etc)

Egg white protein + hemp protein (60-70g sipped throughout the day with digestive enzymes, GNC greens, fruit, carrot juice, etc....read up on the enzymes, they will increase your absorption rate)

I sometimes put the GNC BCCAs in my water bottle during training.

Vitamin D4

GNC Mens Sports Vitamin

Tart Cherry Juice (in smoothies, daily...helps me sleep, plus is supposed to help with recovery)

GNC Triple Strength Fish Oil and Instaflex Advanced (anti-inflammatories....I suffer from degenerating lumbar disks and achy knees)

GNC C4 (only before high intensity workouts, and only in the morning, otherwise I'm up all night!)

Beet Juice Extract (this is a vasodilator and increases endurance) and 200mg of Caffeine (before races)...I start the beet juice 5 days before race day

The research on Beta Alanine, Creatine, and Beet Juice Extract is fairly solid, some legit studies with control/experiment groups, etc.

I don't eat grains or dairy....I eat chicken, fish, lots of veggies and fresh fruit, 2-3 smoothies of day packed with greens, berries, protein, etc. The basic idea is I maintain a continuous "drip" of protein throughout the day, mainly because your body can only absorb roughly 15-20g of protein in 1.5 hours, a bit more with digestive enzymes...so anything above that, you are crapping the remainder out and wasting your money. Unlike carbo-loading, you can't "protein load" :-)

I cut the grains out 6 months ago, after struggling with delayed recovery times. From what I can tell, I've been able to increase my training load with less soreness and fatigue. I can't cite all the research here, but it has to do with energy required to digest complex carbs vs. simple carbs, and interference with protein absorption. Also, we weren't eating modern grains 25K years ago, yet our digestive systems haven't evolve much since then. I'm also now very fanatically focused on consuming carbs and protein within 30 mins of my workouts. The lack of simple carbs in my system was partially responsible for the delay in recovery time.

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Baby Puke

Wow.

Morelock

my only caution on supplementing (especially from big box stores like gnc/vit world/etc) is if you are going to be tested. I'd be very cautious taking anything that wasn't NSF certified nowadays... cross contamination is a real problem.

Agree Beta Al, Beet juice and creatine show (in many studies) actual improvement. So does baking soda, although it's pretty redundant to take baking soda and beet juice.

Examine.com is a great website/resource if anyone didn't know about it. Easy search bar that brings up most of the studies done on whatever supplement you search for.

tobukog

I'd be shaking in my boots taking all that stuff. I used NSF certified Creatine out of competition (4 weeks) last year but I decided it's not worth the risk.

topflightpro

I wouldn't touch anything with a GNC label on it, or really anything from GNC. GNC is well known for selling stuff that will get you popped on a doping test.

I've got whey protein that I purchase form Costco - NSF certified. I've also used BCAAs. They really helped me get through the DOMS when lifting - I no longer need them after every lifting session, just when I have extended breaks from lifting due to illness or injury.

I've done creatine on and off for many years. I'm not sure I experience much of the benefit.

krispenhartung

Very interesting, and good to know. I'm not willing to take the risk, especially with my first road race coming up in 40 days. Thanks for pointing that out. Although, after a quick search, I was not able to find a source citing a positive doping test by an athlete from taking a GNC product...but a lot of articles and forums with anecdotal information regarding banned substances, a lawsuit, ingredients in their products not in the label, etc. Is there a specific case?

SyntaxMonstr

I take Nitrotech protein (with creatine included) before gym sessions and either ON's Whey Isolate, BCAA's or Casein after, depending on the session and timing. I tried beet juice during my rugby days but didn't see any real benefit. Just started on Nitrotech so I don't know if there are any actual benefits to the creatine or whether my strength block is just going well, haha.

topflightpro

I can't point to anything. I have just heard many times that going to GNC is a good way to get popped due to cross contamination with banned stuff.

Despite not having good evidence to back this up, I'm of the opinion that there is enough anecdotal comments to not bother with their stuff. I don't want to be one of those people trying to fight a positive test because I took something that seemed OK but was contaminated. I also couldn't really afford the legal or lab fees to fight it.

carleton

@krispenhartung, Watch this PBS Frontline documentary (54 minutes) and your opinion will likely change: Supplements and Safety | FRONTLINE | PBS

Dietary Supplements are a largely unregulated market.

Here's one scenario:

- Guy creates "Steve's Super Vitamins" using legit ingredients.
- Nobody buys them because the market is saturated.
- Guy adds Chemical X to the Super Vitamins V2. (Chemical X is banned in sport. But, 99.99999% of consumers will never be tested)
- Super Vitamins V2 works like crazy. Forum chatter is nuts. "IT WORKS!! I'm ripped and feel AMAZING!!"
- Bodybuilding bros eat it up.
- PROFIT.
- Athlete reads the stellar reviews and the ingredients list and is like, "All natural, all gains, nothing that will get me banned. SWEET!"
- Takes Steve's Super Vitamins.
- Wins
- Gets drug tested and they find Chemical X in his system.
- Athlete is confused af...and pissed.


There was a masters trackie that got popped maybe 5 years back for taking something from GNC ("Jack3D", from GNC maybe? That name is in my head with this story.) and won at track nationals, got tested, got popped and was embarrassed.

krispenhartung

This is why I basically come back to these main supplements: Beta Alanine, Beet Juice Extract, Creatin....oh, Sodium Bicarbonate. But I plan on going back to the original manufacturers I bought these from, which have been accepted and vetted by the cycling industry. I was very comfortable with Endurance 360s supplement, which includes beta and creatine. I was getting Beet Juice extract from Red Rush. All the GNC stuff is going in the trash today. ;-)

carleton

To clarify, I'm not commenting on any particular products. Just the market in general.

Personally, when I take supplements, I stay away from premade "stacks" and "roll my own" with products that are only 1 thing. So, instead of buying "Super Stack Whatever with Creatine and Beta Alanine...." (and god knows what else). I'll buy products that are (claim to be) purely creatine and beta alanine separately. That's not a perfect solution. But, it's how I do it.

The supplement store folks love pushing stacks. Especially GNC who seem to staff more bodybuilder and workout bro types. Vitamin Shoppe usually has more just warm bodies with no opinions that will ring up your order.

topflightpro

IIRC, Vitamin Shoppe is very prominent on the NSF list.

700wheel

Kaiser Permanente (KP) has a comprehensive site that includes effectiveness and lists of USP certified products.
Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database Consumer Version

As a member of KP I can talk to pharmacists and dieticians at no or minimal cost.

Morelock

personally, I got turned onto Thorne Research supplements a few years back. They're the only one's I trust now. (although there are some other's that do pretty heavy testing as well, Thorne has a good history of it)

krispenhartung

I read a study that showed that dark chocolate, already known to be a vasodilator, was more effective than beet juice. I can't find the original study, but here are two studies on dark chocolate itself, one focused on cyclists using 20 min 80% Ftp and 2 min time trials.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4678700/ - cycling
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17984375 - vasodilation measurement

One more: https://www.nutraingredients.com/Art...ce-study-shows

Excerpt

Results
DC (dark chocolate) consumption increased GET (gas exchange threshold) and TT performance compared to both BL (baseline) and WC (P < 0.05). DC consumption increased V.O2max by 6 % compared to BL (P < 0.05), but did not reach statistical significance compared to WC (white chocolate). There were no differences in the moderate-intensity cycling for V.O2, RER, BLa and heart rate between conditions, although, V.O2 and RER exhibited consistently lower trends following DC consumption compared to BL and WC, these did not reach statistical significance.

Conclusion
Chronic supplementation with DC resulted in a higher GET (gas exchange threshold) and enhanced TT performance. Consequently, ingestion of DC reduced the oxygen cost of moderate intensity exercise and may be an effective ergogenic aid for short-duration moderate intensity exercise.

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krispenhartung

I'll check them out. Endurance 360 has a good reputation. They have a product that is very popular with athletes that has both beta alanine and creatine in it, with a few other things they call out on the label.

https://www.endurance360.com/blogs/e...ping-testing-1

I just returned back to it and have a monthly subscription.

https://www.endurance360.com/product...lete-endurance


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Altimis

@krispenhartung

wow that's impressive lists!

That's very interesting idea of Mass Gainer usage I really never ever thought of Mass Gainer in the way like that before. I usually (try to) gorged down foods to hits macros I needed after training session and find that my body are not handle it well... end up bloated and felt guilty (lol).

Mass Gainer usually have big loads of nutrition (and calories to put on mass) I think I will try it sometimes. For easier on stomach and macro.

I am full aware that I better eat well first (and balance, ofc) before turns the head to food supplements but sometimes its sucks... my body just sucks like this since birth unable to handle nutrition properly or something. Like proteins will be put into fat storage right away as soon as I put it in the mouth, hah.

krispenhartung

I guess maybe we should consider a mass gain not from GNC, based on the discussion here! :-o

I basically switched to my prior mass gainer before I had bought the GNC stuff a few months ago. It's a lot more simple and doesn't have a list of ingredients a mile long. Here it is, formulated for approx. 600c of recovery, both protein and carbs, non-dairy.

- 1 scoop of organic egg-white protein
- 3-4 tablespoons of organic 100% hemp seed (or hemp protein)
- 2 scoops (about 4-10 tbsp) of 100% Dextrose (it doesn't get any more basic than this, when it comes to carbs)
- 8-12 oz of almond milk or Silk almond/cashew milk
- A few handfuls of frozen blueberries, berries, or your choice of fav fruit)
- 2 capsules of digestive enzymes

Hemp protein is pretty amazing stuff. It has the essential fatty acids omega-3 and omega-6 in a 3:1 ratio, plus 20 essential amino acids. Plus it has magnesium, iron, potassium, and calcium. And it digests and absorbs efficiently.

It has everything you need in there for muscle repair and glycogen replenishment in the muscles, plus it's absolutely delicious. :-)

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Altimis

@krispenhartung

Thank you very much, I am really appreciated your input will try your formula sometimes.

So far so good, I got BCAAs (with appropriate workout plan) and Whey isolate for recovery, its seems works well for now. Next time I may try something new. Thanks again!

krispenhartung

Or you can just eat a peanut butter and jelly, with banana, sandwich! ha ha

southernfox

FYI, you often don't know what goes into GNC products...and it's a good way to get popped for doping unintentionally.

carleton

Yup. And Honey is as good a gel as any $2/packet gel on the shelf at the bike shop.

Keep a plastic bottle of honey in your gear bag for the track and you can buy boxes of single serving packets (or get free packets from Starbucks) for your road rides

taras0000

If you're in North America, then look into supplements manufactured in Canada. Supplement companies up here have to abide by the same regulations and protocols that govern the pharmaceutical industry. WAY LESS chance of contamination/cross contamination.

SyntaxMonstr

https://www.hammernutrition.com/products/hammer-flask/

Or use this for your road rides.

krispenhartung

Definitely no reason to buy those expensive gels. Same for electrolytes. People spend thousands on that stuff and you can make it in your own kitchen with salt and lemon/lime juice. For in-race fueling (not just recovery), I know many guys on the road side who just use dextrose, which I mention above as a simple sugar that absorbs quickly. I have a hard time eating and breathing on the bike, so I tend to just put my fuel in my water. I do the math on what my carb needs will be and put that much dextrose in my water. Honey is good too, which is a combo of fructose and dextrose (which converts to glucose in the blood). So dextrose is your most efficient "main line" carb to restoring glycogen in the muscles. You can buy these little squishy, re-usable bottles that will hold about 5oz of liquid and put both honey and dextrose in them. Bam! There you go.