styggno1

According to @CyclesMakaron suggestion and after much research on my own - I have edited my first post. It now says (edits in red colour):

Z 1985
A 1986-7
B 1988-9
C 1990-1
D 1992-3
E - as in "E"dit - as there are no E-serials found.
F 1994-5
Years are to be concidered approximate.

It is and has to be approximate as there are no five digit numbers. I have never seen one. My theory (and CyclesMakaron: s) therefore being that they turned to a new letter prefix when reaching 9999 (in contrary to what is put forth at the above mentioned site – that the prefix letters might have something to do with which Merckx catalog that was current). Hence not calendar correct by letters but by reaching 9999 and then starting over with a new letter – whatever time of year it was. The serial numbers do not follow the model of frame but are for all models in a common sequence – a Corsa Extra MAX frame can have the serial C1234 and the next following number can be a Corsa in SLX tubing.

styggno1

It is a pity this frame has lost its original fork - it would have been interesting to know if it had a plain "MAX" crown or a Merckx crown. (Currently for sale on ebay and I have nothing to do with the sale or the seller)

CyclesMakaron show a MX-Leader "D 875" some posts above. This one is a full MAX frame at "D 856". Close in numbers but very different as frames.

Fastback-style seat stays



CyclesMakaron

CyclesMakaron

The famous frame described by the seller as 1998 This is the last version of Corsa Extra Max (should be with Mx Leader fork)... During this period (beginning of 1992) 2-3 versions of Max/Mx Leader were built simultaneously...

weeredok

How can I show you one to add to you knowledge base?

Purchased recently July 2020. Australia

TT c2c = 56cm

ST c2c = 57cm

1 owner since new, paid >9000AUD

DA7400 groupset inc wheels, but he re-rimmed it to replace the tubular rims with clinchers.

8Sp DA shifter

Frame serial D2496. and an 'L' or '7' on the non drive side.

plain decals

MXL tubes and fork crown.

Hope this helps someone,

Damm. cant post photos unless I have 10 posts.......

D2496 MXL. DA7400 series groupset and wheels

weeredok

drive dot google dot com slash drive slash folders slash 1on9RgesI7HX8ADhsLqvRXeaDukF787Pd? usp = sharing



Google drive images, hope this works ok.

weeredok

The catalogue above 1991 shows a MAX frame with the Ovalized TT vertical at the HT junction.
Most all the Merckx MXL frames I have seen, which are later than this image the Ovalized TT has the oval Horizontal at the TT/HT junction and vertical at the TT/ST junction.
My D2496 and F3695 have Vertical TT /ST and Horizontal at TT/HT junction.
My KOTTER MAX has TT/ST as Horizontal and TT/HT as vertical like a number of other frame makers. Even a Team Telecom LOW PRO has TT/ST as Horizontal and TT/HT as vertical

Maybe Merckx revised this later after 1991 to give more compliance to the front end?

CyclesMakaron

L D2496 Mx Leader was built in summer 1992 - does your frame have BSC thread?
F3695 - this is dangerously close to a series of frames built in 1994 for the Motorola team (for the 1995 season) - any details?
What you describe in relation to top tube is the fundamental difference between Corsa Extra Max (90-92) and Mx Leader (92-04?).

weeredok

Thankyou for the detailed clarity. to answer your questions
1) D2496 Mx Leader - "does your frame have BSC thread?" - not sure. It is fitted from new with FC-7403 groupset. Unusually to me the lockrings are not silver but look to be a green metal like magnesuim. Once I can add images I will (10 post minimum required)
2) F3695 Team Telecom colours, came fitted with Time fork but has a spare MXL fork not in Team colours. SIze is c2c - 53TT. 52ST. 11HT. DuraAce Headset. Its a small frame.

I hope that helps

CyclesMakaron

In this situation, the photos will indeed be necessary... we are waiting for the 10th post

Paul J

If you go to the Introductions Forum you can welcome a few new folks to the Bike Forums and quickly get your post count to the 10 required to post pictures. https://www.bikeforums.net/introductions/

Seanaus

Greetings styggno1 and CyclesMakaron from South Australia. I appreciate both of your work in regards to the dating and heirachy of Merckx frames especially the Max and MXL lines.
I see C1920 being mentioned as the first known Max frame. Is this frame a Telekom team frame at all? I have C1928 here which is a Max lo pro in Telekom colours, and was wondering if Merckx possibly made a batch of frames for Telekom at that time. I also have a G series MXL , but the lo pro is more interesting.

CyclesMakaron

Your frame is the oldest CE Max I know... (instead of 1920 it should be 19xx)
Dating is easy, the frame was built in summer 1990 (frame C2110 built for Steve Bauer July/August 1990 confirmed by EMC)
C1928 can be built for Team Telekom...
...are there any factory markings left on the steering tube?

weeredok

This path can be used to access the photos.
method
Copy the path into your browser URL path then:

1. Remove all spaces as you go
2. replace the dot with .
3. replace slash with /
4. you should end up with a working URL

drive dot google dot com slash drive slash folders slash 1on9RgesI7HX8ADhsLqvRXeaDukF787Pd? usp = sharing

Seanaus

Only the serial number, and a V stamped down near the crown race, which could be an alignment mark. It is clear to see where a label once was.....

The interesting thing is that though you'd call this a Corsa Extra Max, as far as I can see it was never branded as a Corsa Extra. No sticker on the top tube, and no damage to the clear coat if it had been removed, and no X on the bottom bracket shell. The only bb stamping at all is the serial number. It also has only 1 set of bidon cage mounts. I have seen on the net what appear to production versions, but they are branded Corsa Extra and have double cage mounts.

CyclesMakaron

This is a unique frame, perhaps one of the first to be built in EMC from Columbus Max tubes - this means that there were no 'schemes' such as a uniform frame marking with the 'Corsa Extra' sticker (by the way: the X marking was only used for SLX/SPX tubes - Columbus Max had no 'own' marking)
The second cage holder is an option on request
Besides, it was the Chrono version, and they were slightly different from the standard frames

Seanaus

Once I get the post count up a bit I'll post up some pictures.. How many frames do you have in your data base these days? Also, are you interested in details of some of my other Merckx in the decoding Merckx thread? Cheers.

CyclesMakaron

Over 1600...
Of course I am interested in every EMC frame - more photos and information, more fun

weeredok

Originally Posted by weeredok View Post
Thankyou for the detailed clarity. to answer your questions
1) D2496 Mx Leader - "does your frame have BSC thread?" - not sure. It is fitted from new with FC-7403 groupset. Unusually to me the lockrings are not silver but look to be a green metal like magnesuim. Once I can add images I will (10 post minimum required)


D2496 I expect Italian thread but hard to tell as cannot see the stamping on the BB adjusters

Aside from the seat this is as bought new. Oh and replacing the tubular rims with Campag clincher rims. DA 8sp


F3695

As it was before I bought the frameset

One of the versions I have done over time


2) F3695 Team Telecom colours, came fitted with Time fork but has a spare MXL fork not in Team colours. SIze is c2c - 53TT. 52ST. 11HT. DuraAce Headset. Its a small frame.

CyclesMakaron

compare seatstay caps
"red" is ver.3 Mx Leader
"Telekom" is ver. 4 and final...
Beautiful bikes

Seanaus

Here we have C1928... I guess you'd call it a Corsa Extra Max even though it's not branded as such. I'm interested to know what year this is also if possible. I'm wondering if this was possibly made in 1990 for Stuttgart Merckx Mercedes, and then had a factory repaint to Telekom when the sponsorship changed at the end of 1990.. It does still have a Suntour headset.
What do you think gentlemen? Thanks, Sean.

CyclesMakaron

Nothing can be excluded
- it can be a prototype used (the photo would be priceless) or not by the Stuttgart team
- it could be a frame that "waited" for its painting at EMC for a few months
I use the name Corsa Extra Max, because it appeared as early as 1990 - this model is really Chrono, and sometimes they had a golden sticker, and sometimes they didn't - if he got a sticker, it would definitely be a golden "Corsa Extra".

coreylee

Does anyone know how each variation compares in terms of best to worst (least best)? If someone has a link to that info, that works too.

CyclesMakaron

Since constructions are modified to improve them (although sometimes this does not work...) it can be said that "the later the more refined".
As far as I know, there is no comparison of the "driving experience" of the 3 CE Max and 4 Mx Leader versions...

Seanaus

Greetings styggno1 and CyclesMakaron , I thought this may be of interest to you. Ebay seller pacific-coast-cycles currently has this for sale (picture from their listing). According to the seller, the frame number on this is D7, which I believe is very late for Corsa Extra Max. Ebay listing is https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165292055236 I'd guess this would have had the external crown MX Leader style fork originally. Best regards from Australia.

Fivethumbs

I'm always suspicious of a frame being sold without a fork. Head on crash?