View Poll Results: Do you consider riding on the MUP/bike path to be road cycling?
Yes
66
47.83%
No
72
52.17%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll
Does MUP cycling = Road Cycling?
09-29-18, 06:01 PM
#51
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Must be a lot of us sitting in front of our computers with nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon other than debate this?
I don't care
I don't care
09-29-18, 06:07 PM
#52
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I do, but my assertion is conditional. I don't know what MUPs are like in other parts of the country/world. In SoCal, the big three are the Santa Ana, Los Angeles, and San Gabriel River Trails (SART, LART, and SGRT.) They are all Class I bikeways, that often cover vast distances with no entrance exit. In the northern 10 miles of the SART, there's only maybe 7-8 places to enter or exit the trail. Walkers/joggers are rarely encountered, and the typical speed is +17mph, many moving much quicker. The river trails here are freeways for bicycles. There are people I see on the SART that I've never seen anywhere else-- hell, I'm on the SART at least once a week, and will often just use it for a few miles as a shortcut between where I am and where I want to be.
Cycleways like this (I used to ride the SART) seem to be like roads - just special roads for bicycles. Hence, it is possible to engage in an activity that is basically road cycling.
OTOH, the crowded little paths with a bunch of walkers, joggers, dogs, and babies - paths where high speed efforts are not possible - do not seem to invite road cycling.
09-29-18, 06:24 PM
#53
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A quick browse of this thread reveals that we're discussing vastly different things when it comes to local MUPs
09-29-18, 06:43 PM
#54
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People who ride on the MUPs would be called "The Moops". Who, coincidentally, are also the same people that invaded Spain in the 8th century!
09-29-18, 07:15 PM
#55
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09-29-18, 07:30 PM
#56
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Since I'm pretty sure this question is based on a comment of mine from yesterday in another thread, ill chime in with obvious bias.
riding mups, bike trails, and anything else that is paved should be considered road riding if you want it to be.
why should i have to literally be on a road for it to be road riding? Its a paved surface which means it isnt mountain biking and isnt gravel biking.
riding a protected paved trail thats 20' off a 5 lane 50mph road is simply smarter than riding on that road.
earlier this year I did a 62mi ride with 3000' of climb. 10mi was road and 52mi was on paved trails. I got a good workout, rode on pavement, climbed a decent bit, and had fun. In the strictest sense, no it wasn't road riding. In a practical sense, I did what I do on roads so there isnt a difference.
if I ride 2mi of side roads, 5mi of paved trail, then 25mi of roads and return home, I ride 39mi in total and 10 of it was path to get out to county roads. That is road riding, right? I did 10mi of paved trail though...oh the horror.
I ride a lot of roads- paved and gravel. I prefer road riding to riding on paths, but im not sure why subkecting yourself to vehicles should be what decides if something is road riding or not.
decades ago there was no extensive network of beautiful paved bike paths. Road riding was only on roads because that was the only option.
the meaning of words is fluid and as paved trails have become more mainstream, what constitutes road riding has changed.
good stuff.
riding mups, bike trails, and anything else that is paved should be considered road riding if you want it to be.
why should i have to literally be on a road for it to be road riding? Its a paved surface which means it isnt mountain biking and isnt gravel biking.
riding a protected paved trail thats 20' off a 5 lane 50mph road is simply smarter than riding on that road.
earlier this year I did a 62mi ride with 3000' of climb. 10mi was road and 52mi was on paved trails. I got a good workout, rode on pavement, climbed a decent bit, and had fun. In the strictest sense, no it wasn't road riding. In a practical sense, I did what I do on roads so there isnt a difference.
if I ride 2mi of side roads, 5mi of paved trail, then 25mi of roads and return home, I ride 39mi in total and 10 of it was path to get out to county roads. That is road riding, right? I did 10mi of paved trail though...oh the horror.
I ride a lot of roads- paved and gravel. I prefer road riding to riding on paths, but im not sure why subkecting yourself to vehicles should be what decides if something is road riding or not.
decades ago there was no extensive network of beautiful paved bike paths. Road riding was only on roads because that was the only option.
the meaning of words is fluid and as paved trails have become more mainstream, what constitutes road riding has changed.
good stuff.
09-29-18, 08:11 PM
#57
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I do, but my assertion is conditional. I don't know what MUPs are like in other parts of the country/world. In SoCal, the big three are the Santa Ana, Los Angeles, and San Gabriel River Trails (SART, LART, and SGRT.) They are all Class I bikeways, that often cover vast distances with no entrance exit. In the northern 10 miles of the SART, there's only maybe 7-8 places to enter or exit the trail. Walkers/joggers are rarely encountered, and the typical speed is +17mph, many moving much quicker. The river trails here are freeways for bicycles. There are people I see on the SART that I've never seen anywhere else-- hell, I'm on the SART at least once a week, and will often just use it for a few miles as a shortcut between where I am and where I want to be.
When it comes to the splitting of hairs about whether someone who drives to the trailhead and rides up and back then drives home, is that road cycling? I kinda wanna say no... but he's on a road bike, riding on tarmac. The north trailhead is 8.5 miles from my house, and I've never driven to it. A ride to the beach for me is typically 73 miles, about 25 of that on surface streets, and 48 on the SART. I would still classify it as a "road ride," because big chunks of it are on, you know... the road. But if the guy who just does out-and-backs on the river trail isn't "road cycling," what's he doing? Trail riding has a whole different connotation.
When it comes to the splitting of hairs about whether someone who drives to the trailhead and rides up and back then drives home, is that road cycling? I kinda wanna say no... but he's on a road bike, riding on tarmac. The north trailhead is 8.5 miles from my house, and I've never driven to it. A ride to the beach for me is typically 73 miles, about 25 of that on surface streets, and 48 on the SART. I would still classify it as a "road ride," because big chunks of it are on, you know... the road. But if the guy who just does out-and-backs on the river trail isn't "road cycling," what's he doing? Trail riding has a whole different connotation.
S Cal is blessed with a lot of repurposed access roads along flood control levees. These are bike freeways. I can do an out and back century with only 12 miles of road and only two street crossings to deal with once I hit the trail system. The SGRT also dumps out onto the start of one of the premier climbs in the continental US, Hwy 39 and there are lots of potential linkups with minimal riding in traffic. (LA River, Coyote Creek, Rio Hondo, San Jose Creek)
There are a couple of other trails that are probably more characteristic of MUPs elsewhere, LA River to the SGRT thru Long Beach, Whittier Greenway and the Claremont to San Bernardino rails to trails.
Those are ones you are only going to do once, or if you have to. Frequent street crossings so it isn't any different than stoplight to stoplight and lots of pedestrian and dog traffic if you pick the wrong time of day.
The one drawback is that the north/south river systems have trails with only a few short exceptions, even though there are several east/west flood control channels that could easily be upgraded.
09-29-18, 08:19 PM
#58
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Why do we call them paths instead of trails?
09-29-18, 08:25 PM
#59
Non omnino gravis
According to Caltrans,
Class 1 bikeway: Path
Class 2 bikeway: Lane
Class 3 bikeway: Route
Class 4 bikeway: Track
Kinda like how the Inuit have dozens of words for "snow."
But really, I think in government nomenclature, trail implies non-paved.
Class 1 bikeway: Path
Class 2 bikeway: Lane
Class 3 bikeway: Route
Class 4 bikeway: Track
Kinda like how the Inuit have dozens of words for "snow."
But really, I think in government nomenclature, trail implies non-paved.
__________________
09-29-18, 10:40 PM
#60
Senior Member
FWIW, a large chunk of the Greenway is not a 'MUP' in its fullest sense -- it is labelled as for roller-skaters and bikes only. From recollection, this area extends from roughly the 60s/70s thru to downtown Manhattan. This is presumably because running parallel to the Greenway along this stretch, there are plenty of pedestrian paths or sidewalks only yards away that bikes are not allowed on. That said, this section is oft frequented by joggers, skateboarders and peds. Unfortunately, the parks dept is unwilling to monitor and police the situation.
I rode almost the entire trail today and was able to exceed 25mph in a few spots, but mostly around 20 is the top speed, and in the crowded sections I just took it easy. Every one of the 43 miles that I rode today went into my log.
09-29-18, 10:48 PM
#61
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Only if the MUP has lane markings and those cute little stop signs.
09-29-18, 11:17 PM
#62
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09-30-18, 05:12 AM
#64
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Yes, sadly it's a byproduct of rails-to-trails conversions. Train track routing was surveyed to avoid an steep grades.
09-30-18, 06:22 AM
#65
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Or they are ever so slightly downhill. The North/South County trail in NY runs from The Bronx up to Brewster NY, and slopes from Brewster down to the city just enough that you feel like Superman as you ride in that direction. No perceptible hill, you just feel like you are having a really good day. I've only ever done the entire trail in that direction, never the other way, not because of the slope but I only do it as a way to escape the long car ride home from my in-laws. My wife drops me at the trail head and I ride the 70 or so miles home from there knowing it'll be easy.
09-30-18, 02:00 PM
#66
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For most people in large, congested cities they are the only way to cycle long distances non stop. I can cycle 100km on paved MUPs with just a few km of on-road low speed limit biking. I much prefer it to sharing the road with bike lanes or sharrows. I can maintain 40kmh on all of them barring any traffic. They have a center line and are wide enough for three abreast.
Not sure why cycling on a paved surface shared or not shared by cars would not be considered road cycling. Are we trying to split hairs and feel some degree of self imposed superiority because road asphalt and mup asphalt is somehow different?
Not sure why cycling on a paved surface shared or not shared by cars would not be considered road cycling. Are we trying to split hairs and feel some degree of self imposed superiority because road asphalt and mup asphalt is somehow different?
09-30-18, 02:13 PM
#67
Senior Member
I don't believe MUP/paths riding is the same as road riding and I do 100 mile long rides almost strictly on MUP/paths at an average speed is 16 MPH. I prefer dealing with pedestrians and other cyclist than cars.
09-30-18, 02:16 PM
#68
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The steep roads are always there for you, if that's what you like. I use our local MUP as a route to reach some of the bigger, steeper climbs up-Valley. On other weekends I put the kids in the trailer and my wife and I ride up the MUP to a nice playground with a good coffee shop next door. The kids love it when the train goes by. All those miles go on my Strava. They all count, because they're all me riding my bike.
09-30-18, 02:58 PM
#69
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nothing wrong with that. Trains struggle to deal with steep grades. The plus point of that is it's easier to persuade non-cyclists, beginners, family members etc to come out for a ride with you on a segregated bike path that never gets excessively steep. Bike paths/mups are there to persuade non-cyclists to start cycling in a safe, comfortable place.
The steep roads are always there for you, if that's what you like. I use our local mup as a route to reach some of the bigger, steeper climbs up-valley. On other weekends i put the kids in the trailer and my wife and i ride up the mup to a nice playground with a good coffee shop next door. The kids love it when the train goes by. All those miles go on my strava. They all count, because they're all me riding my bike.
The steep roads are always there for you, if that's what you like. I use our local mup as a route to reach some of the bigger, steeper climbs up-valley. On other weekends i put the kids in the trailer and my wife and i ride up the mup to a nice playground with a good coffee shop next door. The kids love it when the train goes by. All those miles go on my strava. They all count, because they're all me riding my bike.
09-30-18, 03:56 PM
#70
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For most people in large, congested cities they are the only way to cycle long distances non stop. I can cycle 100km on paved MUPs with just a few km of on-road low speed limit biking. I much prefer it to sharing the road with bike lanes or sharrows. I can maintain 40kmh on all of them barring any traffic. They have a center line and are wide enough for three abreast.
Not sure why cycling on a paved surface shared or not shared by cars would not be considered road cycling. Are we trying to split hairs and feel some degree of self imposed superiority because road asphalt and mup asphalt is somehow different?
Not sure why cycling on a paved surface shared or not shared by cars would not be considered road cycling. Are we trying to split hairs and feel some degree of self imposed superiority because road asphalt and mup asphalt is somehow different?
The claim was
Road cycling, to me, means paved riding. I think thats a pretty common view.
And then this thread emerged.
So far, according to the poll it would appear that at least 41% of people that can be bothered to respond on this road cycling forum think it's road cycling, which may be significant enough to constitute a common view if said view can decide on what constitutes the MUP in question. This thread illustrates there are some significant differences in MUPs.
I've been on a dozen MUPs in the US, a dozen or so in Korea, and a few in Denmark, and none of them would equate to road cycling as you're having to go 10 mph nearly always to dodge the non-cycling traffic.
Apparently there are different MUPs that don't deal with that, however.
09-30-18, 06:45 PM
#71
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I would hazard a guess that if one typically rides in, or leads group rides, on regular roads where there is traffic and cars, that one might be uncomfortable riding in a group, or following a group leader, who has only ever ridden on MUPs.
09-30-18, 07:51 PM
#72
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If it's smooth enough and wide enough where it's safe to go 20+ mph while passing people walking puppies on long leashes, I'll count it as "road" riding. But you might as well call that a road. I haven't seen any MUPs like that. There's only one MUP around here that I use, and only when noodling to a store for groceries and coming back with them - that is, @ 10 mph or slower. It's pretty narrow and bumpy and there are usually a few people walking on it.
Having said that, I do have a KOM on that MUP, despite the fact that I think it's hazardous to have Strava segments on MUPs. I had only gone to that store to return bottles that time, didn't have any groceries for the trip back, knew it was usually a very low-traffic time of day for that path, and also knew the KOM was pretty low-hanging fruit, so I turned on the Garmin and went for it. Didn't see a soul on it that day except a chipmunk that got out of the way quick.
Having said that, I do have a KOM on that MUP, despite the fact that I think it's hazardous to have Strava segments on MUPs. I had only gone to that store to return bottles that time, didn't have any groceries for the trip back, knew it was usually a very low-traffic time of day for that path, and also knew the KOM was pretty low-hanging fruit, so I turned on the Garmin and went for it. Didn't see a soul on it that day except a chipmunk that got out of the way quick.
10-01-18, 12:24 AM
#73
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I would hazard a guess that you'd be hard pushed to find a group ride anywhere, the members of which have only ever ridden on MUPs. And if you do ever find such a beast, I'd further guess that the ride you're considering joining them on, takes place entirely on a MUP, so why worry?
10-01-18, 04:27 AM
#74
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Depends. How many KOMs do you have on the most crowded parts of the MUPs where you have to dart between city bikes, joggers, dogs, kids and old folks on walkers and canes?
10-01-18, 12:06 PM
#75
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No speed limits on the MUP where l live and I was cruising this morning at around 20-22 mph sustained for a while. The paths are always pretty quiet in the mornings and mostly used by cyclists. I used to ride the LA River path when I lived near it and that is technically a MUP but there are race teams out there in the mornings drafting in groups. I don't particularly agree with that because it's not wide enough to safely ride 2 wide even if you are very experienced but people do it there every day and probably cruising above 30 mph there. So I guess not all MUP are created equal
