Gresp15C

My spouse has a nearly new Surly Straggler with 650b wheels. It had "Surly Knard" tires on it. She decided that she wanted to try tires with a smooth tread. The shop recommended a pair of Compass tires, which they ordered for her. First of all, the old tires were very difficult to remove. I could barely get my tire levers under the bead with the tires fully deflated. Installilng the new tires was even more difficult. I got the front tire on with a lot of effort and a Kool Stop Bead Jack. However we can't get the rear tire all the way on, no matter how hard I try.

I've been maintaining my own bikes for 45 years, and have never had so much trouble with tires. I've had tight tires that were installable with the bead jack. There is no way that my spouse could change one of these tires by herself, either on the road or at home -- her hands are just not strong enough.

We're going to take the whole bike back to the store tomorrow, and ask them to remove the tires for us. I'm not sure what we're going to do with the bike after that. There seems to be a very limited selection of 650b tires.

What's going on with tires?

cpach

It's because they're tubeless ready rims--they rely on tight fit of the bead to the rim. I feel like you may not be using the correct technique. You need to push the tire bead into the center channel of the rim to free up the space you need to either get them off, or to seat the last bit of the bead.

dsbrantjr

I cannot comment about tires, some tire/rim combinations are tighter than others, but if your rims have thick cloth rim tape like Velox, you could try replacing it with something thinner like Continental Easy Tape or a couple of layers of filament-reinforced packing tape or Kapton tape. The thinner, slicker tape will give you more room to get the bead down into the rim, which will make tire mounting easier. Perhaps if you try another brand they might be easier to mount. I run Michelin Protek in both 700c and 26 inch, which also come in 650b x 35(only), and have not had problems mounting them by hand.

cpach

Good point, you need to use tubeless tape using tubeless products even if there's a tube in there.

Gresp15C

The tape that was in there, is fairly thin but not tubeless ready. It has no adhesive. We had to replace it in the rear, because the tape was bunched up and didn't cover the spoke holes, and we can't flatten it. So maybe cloth tape is a problem in the rear -- hopefully the shop will have new tape for us.

Pushing the bead into the center channel has worked on other wheels in the family fleet, but just not these. In fact, even with the bead fully within the center channel, I could barely get my tire lever under it.

Hopefully the shop will make it seem easy tomorrow.

I have a large roll of Kapton tape that I bought for a failed electronic project. It's 2 inches wide, but I can slit it down to width. Is one layer enough?

Gresp15C

Didn't take long to try the Kapton. Tires still no fit. I can't get the rear one on at all. I used soap water on the front, but at this point don't want to get the tires all soapy in case the shop wants to re-sell them.

jideta

For my difficult rims I used hand sanitizer as a lube.

Miele Man

I learned that if a tube and clincher tire is a really tight fit and very hard to get on, that it's best to get something else that fits a little looser so that I can get the tire off to repair the tube if I puncture on a ride. Imaging being at the side of the road in the riain or high heat with a flat tire that you can't repair or change the tube on because you can't get the tire off. That'll be the time you can't get cell phone coverage either.

Cheers

cpach

That's surprising. My honest impression of the Compass tires I've had is that they're not an especially tight fit.

dsbrantjr

+1, it always seems to happen near the end of a ride when you are tired and it's getting dark...

freeranger

I haven't run into that problem, but if I did, think I'd try a hair blow dryer (or maybe a heat gun on a low setting) around the bead to see if it might make it a little more supple. Never tried it, but sounds like it might be worth a try.

Gresp15C

That's the plan. Unfortunately, there's not a huge selection of 650b tires out there. The interesting thing is that the bike accommodates 700c wheels, and an option is to build a set of wheels that will take more normal tires, rather than letting 650b turn into a money pit.

masi61

I’ve been using the flat Schwalbe tire levers that someone else suggested. They are more low profile than your typical Pedro’s/Park Tool thick type.
Also, I like to insert 2 levers (about 1” apart) under the bead opposite the valve then lever them with the back of my hand then insert a 3rd tire lever where it will fit. This is for removal.

For the install, the same tire levers combined with snug fitting leather work gloves really gives you the ability to roll a tight bead up and over that last section of rim sidewall.

davidad

I had a set of Marathons that were almost impossible so I bought the tire jack and decided to never buy another pair. I use Panaracer Paselas and don't have much trouble mounting or removing them.

Retro Grouch 

You might have better luck starting at the valve stem for removal. The inner tube is a little thicker where the valve stem is attached. That keeps that part from settling quite as far into the low part of the rim. Installation, of course is opposite - save the valve portion of the tire for last.

Another trick I sometimes use is, after loosening the bead all the way around on both sides, to hold the wheel vertically, valve stem down, in front of me. Grab the tire at the 3:00 and 9:00 positions and try to push it straight down into the floor. That bottoms the beads opposite the valve stem into the low portion of the rim. When I had my shop and was doing a lot of tire work I seldom had to resort to using tire levers while using that trick.

zacster

Another trick is to put the valve stem at 90 degrees and also make sure the tire is in the center channel, this way the valve stem doesn't interfere with the tire in the center channel when trying to get that last bit over.

squirtdad

man if a kool stop tire jack won't do it.....I would say probably not a combination i would ever want for fixing a flat on the road.

hokiefyd 

It may be the wheels more than the tires, especially if two sets are particularly difficult.

I have a set of wheels like this, Trek Vapor wheels/rims on a 1997 MultiTrack. I can't get any tire to fit and seat on them properly except for a set of Continental Speed Rides. These are folding tires, and seemed to mount the easiest. And by "easiest", I mean at all. I've had other tires physically mount, but they just wouldn't run straight. Mind you, these are tires I've had on other wheels (I tend to swap stuff around every now and then). These Vapor wheels are, by far, the most difficult I've ever owned.

My latest set of wheels is a pair of 584mm ("650b") SX19s from WTB, on which I have a pair of Vittoria Terreno Zeros. I'd say they were "moderately" difficult to mount. I think I had to use the bead jack, but I don't remember. These, too, are folding tires, and I've found that folding tires tend to be easier to mount to difficult wheels than wire bead tires.

rumrunn6

did you change the wheels? my Wife has a Straggler as well. I'll have to look at her wheels & tires. I thought they were the standard 700c wheels/tires

J.Higgins 

I'm with you, man. No way would I want to change a flat out on the road with a set of tires that tight. I'm assuming that the OP's rims have bead-hooks.A lot of rim manufacturers are trying to tell us that hookless rims are better, and by doing so, cut their manufacturing costs, but at the same time they must tighten tolerances to allow for proper tubeless fit. I'm also thinking that The OP's rims may be of the "new and improved" variety of tubeless-ready.

Always something.

ThermionicScott 

Looks like the Alex Adventurer 2 rims spec'd on that bike use bead hooks *and* a humped rim bed for tire retention. No wonder they're so hard to work with!