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Bike lanes and group rides.

Old 05-20-20, 12:35 PM
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Notso_fastLane
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Bike lanes and group rides.

When I ride, and there are clear, mostly clean, bike lanes along the road, I tend to stay in them.

Several of the roads in this area have full 12' bike lanes (as wide as the traffic lanes), and while there are occasionally vehicles parked in them, it's uncommon.

I was driving (hauling stuff to my new house) down this road yesterday, and there was a group of 5 riders. Of the 5, 2 were riding almost right on the fog line, and the other 3 were out in the traffic lane.

Why would someone do this, other than to be a jerk? Is there some point they think they're making? If they were moving back over (and there is plenty of room to do so) when traffic came up behind them, I could at least chalk their behavior up to maybe trying to make sure they're seen, but they didn't even do that.

As a cyclist, I find this even more annoying, because I know a lot of drivers paint us all with the same brush.
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Old 05-20-20, 01:02 PM
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From Google street view there are cars parked in this so-called bike lane every few hundred yards, alone or in a small group I would ride fairly close to or at the fog line to not get pinned between other traffic with poor lane awareness and avoiding a parked car or truck. That seems safest to me for this road. Utah roads are usually pretty wide (comped to some other Western states) and passing safely shouldn’t be an issue.
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Old 05-20-20, 01:05 PM
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I don't think it's particularly unique to cyclists. Most people live inside their very own personal reality bubble, in which no other people exist. They're not going out of their way to inconvenience others-- it's just how they are.
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Old 05-20-20, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
When I ride, and there are clear, mostly clean, bike lanes along the road, I tend to stay in them.

Several of the roads in this area have full 12' bike lanes (as wide as the traffic lanes), and while there are occasionally vehicles parked in them, it's uncommon.

I was driving (hauling stuff to my new house) down this road yesterday, and there was a group of 5 riders. Of the 5, 2 were riding almost right on the fog line, and the other 3 were out in the traffic lane.

Why would someone do this, other than to be a jerk? Is there some point they think they're making? If they were moving back over (and there is plenty of room to do so) when traffic came up behind them, I could at least chalk their behavior up to maybe trying to make sure they're seen, but they didn't even do that.

As a cyclist, I find this even more annoying, because I know a lot of drivers paint us all with the same brush.

The reality is that it took right next to no effort on your part to go around them. That needs to be an important part of our advocacy effort. That is to get motorists to deal with the reality that in most cases even if cyclists are being rude, they don't cause much of an issue at all. Motorists have to deal with far greater issues than the occasional rude cyclist.
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Old 05-20-20, 01:23 PM
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You need to blast out a recording of Jake Brakes, followed by an air horn blast

They'll get the idea.

Last edited by CliffordK; 05-20-20 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 05-20-20, 01:35 PM
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On rural roads, I ride the fog line, but move over when traffic comes up behind me.

The primary reason is to minimize exposure to glass, gravel, and debris.

For group rides, it would depend on the road, traffic, conditions, and group. Side-by-side?

Still, if it is truly a full unidirectional traffic lane path that is clean, there is no reason not to be several feet into the middle of the lane.



Approaching critical intersections that could have right hooks?
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Old 05-20-20, 01:53 PM
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Not a fan of group rides, or big groups in general. They tend to become a swarm that pays zero attention to anything but themselves more like a herd than anything else and that can't be safe. Thankfully I don't come across it much just occasionally on bike trail.
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Old 05-20-20, 02:13 PM
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From what I see on Google Street View, that lane is not designated as a bike lane. It appears to be a parking lane from the curb markings and signage and from the positioning of the parked cars and trucks, the lane is not wide enough to accommodate cyclists outside of the door zone. It would depend on the lane condition and traffic, but I would likely ride within that lane close to the traffic lane, but move over well before any parked vehicles. The center lane gives everybody sufficient room to pass.
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Old 05-20-20, 02:15 PM
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In Illinois, a "lane" like that is really a parking area, not a bike lane. Personally, I would ride in it if I didn't have to swerve frequently to avoid parked cars AND ( that's a big and ) the lane had a clean, reasonably ridable surface.

Last edited by Recycle; 05-20-20 at 02:17 PM. Reason: correct english
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Old 05-20-20, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
From what I see on Google Street View, that lane is not designated as a bike lane. It appears to be a parking lane from the curb markings and signage and from the positioning of the parked cars and trucks, the lane is not wide enough to accommodate cyclists outside of the door zone. It would depend on the lane condition and traffic, but I would likely ride within that lane close to the traffic lane, but move over well before any parked vehicles. The center lane gives everybody sufficient room to pass.


I would be well to the left of the fog line at this portion of the road. I will not ride in the doorzone, regardless of how they paint the lines.
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Old 05-20-20, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post


I would be well to the left of the fog line at this portion of the road. I will not ride in the doorzone, regardless of how they paint the lines.
There are definitely a few stretches like that. For instance, there's a MUP crossing about 1 mile from my house, and people park there along both sides of the street, for about 1/4 mile in each direction.

But most of it, especially through just the neighborhood areas, have very few cars parked in that lane. That's where I saw this particular group. I wonder if it's more of a group dynamic thing or not. Single or even pairs of riders often ride along this stretch of road, and are easily within the parking/bike lane. It is designated as a bike lane with signs in a few places.
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Old 05-20-20, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
There are definitely a few stretches like that. For instance, there's a MUP crossing about 1 mile from my house, and people park there along both sides of the street, for about 1/4 mile in each direction.

But most of it, especially through just the neighborhood areas, have very few cars parked in that lane. That's where I saw this particular group. I wonder if it's more of a group dynamic thing or not. Single or even pairs of riders often ride along this stretch of road, and are easily within the parking/bike lane. It is designated as a bike lane with signs in a few places.
Can you describe for us the difficulty you had in going around them?
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Old 05-20-20, 04:02 PM
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We are traffic and traffic takes the lane. Passing in opposing lane when safe. Motorcycles found out the hard way. We should emulate....

The "magic protective paint" of the fog line/bike lane must be made of latex because, just like a condom, it gives you a false sense of security while getting screwed!
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Old 05-20-20, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post

I was driving....

....As a cyclist, I find this even more annoying, because I know a lot of drivers paint us all with the same brush.
Drive your drive. Ride your ride.

You can’t control others behind the wheels or behind the handlebars.

-mr. bill
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Old 05-21-20, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
Not a fan of group rides, or big groups in general. They tend to become a swarm that pays zero attention to anything but themselves more like a herd than anything else and that can't be safe. Thankfully I don't come across it much just occasionally on bike trail.
What? Group rides arenít safe?
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Old 05-22-20, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
What? Group rides arenít safe?

Like lemmings, off a cliff.

Lemmings don't really do that either, btw.
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Old 05-23-20, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
When I ride, and there are clear, mostly clean, bike lanes along the road, I tend to stay in them.

Several of the roads in this area have full 12' bike lanes (as wide as the traffic lanes), and while there are occasionally vehicles parked in them, it's uncommon.

I was driving (hauling stuff to my new house) down this road yesterday, and there was a group of 5 riders. Of the 5, 2 were riding almost right on the fog line, and the other 3 were out in the traffic lane.
908-936 N Fairfield Rd
908-936 N Fairfield Rd, Layton, UT 84041
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bWc1jm9ivC9VTj6d8

12 feet???

It looks like a bike lane in between a parking lane and the travel lane.

That middle lane isn't 12 feet wide.

The parking lane isn't 12 feet wide (though, it's wider than the middle lane).

The right-most lane isn't a bike lane (it has cars parked in it).

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-23-20 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 05-23-20, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
Single or even pairs of riders often ride along this stretch of road, and are easily within the parking/bike lane. It is designated as a bike lane with signs in a few places.
This is nutty.
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Old 05-23-20, 08:50 AM
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I clicked in here because I really wanted to see a 12' wide bike lane. My weekly 50k route has it all-- some sharrows, a smattering of bike lane, a while trapped in the door zone, a 3-mile stretch without any shoulder whatsoever... but at no point is any bike lane wider than 3'.
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Old 05-23-20, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I clicked in here because I really wanted to see a 12' wide bike lane. My weekly 50k route has it all-- some sharrows, a smattering of bike lane, a while trapped in the door zone, a 3-mile stretch without any shoulder whatsoever... but at no point is any bike lane wider than 3'.
The 12, even 14 foot bike lanes are generally share with busses. (And yeah, Iím an anachronism.)


Anyhow. Ride your ride.

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Old 05-24-20, 09:02 AM
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The OP never did tell us how it was so difficult negotiating the rude riders that he just had to rush to the keyboard to complain about it. I have found that his mindset is just like that of the most vocal anti-cycling motorists I have talked to. If you can get them to have a discussion they almost always admit that it really isn't an issue sharing the road with cyclists. Just hurt feelings.
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Old 05-24-20, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post


I would be well to the left of the fog line at this portion of the road. I will not ride in the doorzone, regardless of how they paint the lines.
As someone who has been "doored", I would prefer being in the lane where approaching traffic can see me in front of them, rather than in the parking / door zone where oblivious occupants are likely to open their door without checking their mirror.

When I got doored, I swerved but wasn't able to fully dodge the door in time. My shoe caught the edge/corner of the door, and got torn opened from pinky-toe to heel section of the shoe. Fortunately for me my foot was ok. The driver just said, "Sorry" and walked off while I sat there stunned.

Door zones are more dangerous than lanes. Are you advocating for riders to choose a more dangerous position on the road? Let me repeat this point: Door zones are very dangerous to cyclists. I don't think anyone who cares about human life would knowingly want cycles to ride in a more dangerous position on the road.
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Old 05-26-20, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
This is nutty.
Yeah, but it's still better than lots of places I've lived. Parking is actually pretty uncommon along here (Gordon ave) except in a few areas (like around the entrance to the MUP).

Most of the time, there's basically just a full width lane that's used by bikes. It's easily wide enough to ride 3 wide with room to spare. I've often passed other riders with both of us well within the bounds of the lane (and that's in my velomobile).

I just wonder sometimes why our fellow riders do what they do.... But then, people.
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Old 06-01-20, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by daoswald View Post
As someone who has been "doored", I would prefer being in the lane where approaching traffic can see me in front of them, rather than in the parking / door zone where oblivious occupants are likely to open their door without checking their mirror.

When I got doored, I swerved but wasn't able to fully dodge the door in time. My shoe caught the edge/corner of the door, and got torn opened from pinky-toe to heel section of the shoe. Fortunately for me my foot was ok. The driver just said, "Sorry" and walked off while I sat there stunned.

Door zones are more dangerous than lanes. Are you advocating for riders to choose a more dangerous position on the road? Let me repeat this point: Door zones are very dangerous to cyclists. I don't think anyone who cares about human life would knowingly want cycles to ride in a more dangerous position on the road.
Just to the left of that fog line would be fine for me. From experience on a lot of very similar roads, that gives me enough perspective to see if anyone is on the driver side of the vehicle. I'd also pop right back to the right of the fog line as soon as I passed that group of cars.
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Old 06-01-20, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Just to the left of that fog line would be fine for me. From experience on a lot of very similar roads, that gives me enough perspective to see if anyone is on the driver side of the vehicle. I'd also pop right back to the right of the fog line as soon as I passed that group of cars.
People have well-intentioned suggestions, but often fail to recognize that roads are not simple one-size-fits-all. This is why laws typically say that the cyclist should remain as far to the right as is safe and practical, but that if it is not safe and practical to ride to the right, they can take the lane. If cars cannot pass to the left of a cyclist while maintaining a 3-foot buffer, they're going to need to change lanes. If changing lanes isn't an option, they'll have to wait until the cyclist finds a safe area to move to the right and allow them around.

If a cyclist were seven feet wide instead of 30 inches wide, so for example if we were slow moving vehicles towing a utility trailer, the expectation would be for approaching traffic to slow down, and pass only when it is safe and legal to do so. In this case, cyclists have the same right.

If someone wants to change these laws, start a petition, get the required signatures to get it on the ballot, and let the vote happen. It will not pass. But at least it's pursuing the appropriate avenue rather than just making assertions are contrary to the laws, that cyclists need to get off the roads.
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