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Will my classic frame fit a Campi groupset?

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Will my classic frame fit a Campi groupset?

Old 05-21-20, 04:41 AM
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Cattmann
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Will my classic frame fit a Campi groupset?

Hi all, this is my first post in a forum of any kind, so fongers crissed it works out!

I recently bought a Dutch made Fongers steel competition frame from a reputable dealer in Germany. The plan is to build it up from scratch. I would like to fit it with a Campi gruppo as I want quality and a nice aesthetic that will go well with the chrome of the bottom triangle and fork. I found a classic Chorus gruppo on Ebay that say it comes with a cartridge 'Bottom bracket English thread 1.37x24T, 68 mm'

As per the specs below, the bottom bracket of my new frame is British 68mm. My question is, would the above mentioned bottom bracket fit with my frame even though it is Italian made?

Here are the specs of my frame:
seat tube: 57.0 cm (Mitte-Oberkante / center-top)
seat tube 55.5 cm (Mitte-Mitte / center-center)
top tube: 55.0 cm (Mitte-Mitte / center-center)
head tube: 13.4 cm
fork shaft: 17.0 cm
front spacing: 100 mm
rear spacing: 120 mm
seat post: 27.2 mm
bottom bracket: BSA (68 mm)
tubeset: Ishiwata CrMo 022
dropouts: Shimano SF
weight: 2.677 kg


Also, the rear triangle is has 120mm spacing. I would like to cold set it to 130mm to accommodate a larger cassette. Is it possible to stretch it out this far?
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Old 05-21-20, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Cattmann View Post
I found a classic Chorus gruppo on Ebay that say it comes with a cartridge 'Bottom bracket English thread 1.37x24T, 68 mm'

As per the specs below, the bottom bracket of my new frame is British 68mm. My question is, would the above mentioned bottom bracket fit with my frame even though it is Italian made?
An English-thread bottom bracket will fit into an English-thread shell regardless of where either of them were made.

Also, the rear triangle is has 120mm spacing. I would like to cold set it to 130mm to accommodate a larger cassette. Is it possible to stretch it out this far?
That's at the high end of re-spacing, but if you're careful it ought to work.
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Old 05-21-20, 06:45 AM
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Does your frame have a rear derailleur hanger?

What about cable stops for the shift cables (front and rear) and cable guides either above or under the bottom bracket?

If not, there are ways around that, but you may find several things about the build suboptimal.
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Old 05-21-20, 06:50 AM
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Yes, you can definitely re-space the rear dropout. People here (myself included) do it all the time, whether it's 2 or 10mm differences. Some folks act like it's a big deal but it's not... You're moving each set of stays 5mm in one direction. Don't worry about making that happen, but of course be careful during the process to try to keep them even on both sides. Welcome aboard!

-Gregory
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Old 05-21-20, 07:21 AM
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I would add to Kilroy1988's post that when cold setting you should clamp the stays at the brake bridge to ensure that the bridge doesn't separate from the stay. Also, you will need to realign the dropouts to parallel so that clamping a wheel in doesn't put stress on the dropouts (which can crack the dropout or dropout brazing) .
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Old 05-21-20, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Cattmann View Post
Also, the rear triangle is has 120mm spacing. I would like to cold set it to 130mm to accommodate a larger cassette. Is it possible to stretch it out this far?
It is, but you might want to look at two things (I just had to stretch a vintage Peugeot in two separate moves because the entire rear triangle was shifted and twisted)...

1. Are there any 126mm wheels/cassettes that might be a better bet...?
2. You may wish to stop at 126, and simply spread the rear when you plop the wheel in. More likely to stay parallel and ensures a snug fit.
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Old 05-21-20, 10:17 AM
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Cattmann , If you're going to spread the seat/chain stays, you'll need to make sure you check the frame alignment before and after. You check it before in case the stays are already offset. You want the stays to be centered on the head-tube and seat-post. You also want to do it in a controlled manner to avoid over-bending and then having to reverse the bend. I made this simple jig that I attached to the floor so that the frame doesn't bounce around while setting the stays...







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Old 05-21-20, 11:04 AM
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That right there is the right way to do it!
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Old 05-21-20, 11:32 AM
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Welcome, Cattmann ! Nice! I'm assuming you actually mean the Competition model, which would have been the second model in the line-up, right behind the Professional, and a sibling of the equivalent Batavus Competition. Originally it would have been equipped with Shimano 600 arabesque, I believe.
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Old 05-21-20, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Does your frame have a rear derailleur hanger?


What about cable stops for the shift cables (front and rear) and cable guides either above or under the bottom bracket?


If not, there are ways around that, but you may find several things about the build suboptimal.

Wow! Thanks for all the help, everyone who posted a reply. I definitely wasn't expecting so much, so soon. I feel very welcome.


It is indeed the competition model. There is a rear deraileur hanger - shimano SF it says on it. Is it possible to hang a campi deralieur on a shimano hanger?


There are guides for the shift cables but no cable stops (I assume this is where the down tube shifters would normally be). There is something you can attach round the frame to replace this though, right?


Good advice about the cold setting guys. I will take that all into account, especially clamping the brake bridge and stopping at 126mm.


I'm also concerned about the caliper reach. Would campi brakes from the 90 reach the rims? Is there a way I can tell this without putting a wheel and a brake on and seeing if it works?
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Old 05-21-20, 01:24 PM
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The classic French derailleur hangers are the oddballs. At some point Campagnolo was using 10mmX26TPI while everyone else was using 10mmX1mm, but they are close enough not to be a problem (snug fit). I'm not sure when that was changed. Anyway, you should be fine with the derailleur hanger design and threads.

You should be able to calculate your brake reach by measuring from the dropouts to the brake mounting bolt, or perhaps if you used a string cord between the dropouts, add 5mm for the axle radius.

Your 700c wheels will have a BSD diameter of about 622, or radius of about 311mm (to the bead seat, lowest part of your brake shoes, a couple mm more to the middle of the shoes).

27" wheels will have a BSD of 630mm, or radius of 315mm (plus a few mm to the middle of the shoe).

I'm not sure where you find the specs on vintage brake calipers.
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Old 05-21-20, 04:32 PM
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The Chorus monoplaner brakes have a reach of 40-51mm, according to Velobase, i.e. pretty short.
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Old 05-21-20, 04:37 PM
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BTW, would this be the frame?

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Old 05-21-20, 04:48 PM
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FWIW, I spaced my Motobecane from 120 to 128, mimicking the intermediate spacing found on production frames of the late 80's, early 90's. 126mm and 130mm wheelsets each fit easily.
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Old 05-21-20, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
BTW, would this be the frame?



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