Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
Reload this Page >

Ask your small, random, track-related questions here

Notices
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Ask your small, random, track-related questions here

Old 09-25-19, 11:02 PM
  #5626  
brawlo
Senior Member
 
brawlo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,055
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by KrispyK View Post
1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.
Nice concept on the lockring tool. Their gear looks to be pricey and only getting your hands on some will tell you if it's worth it. In saying that, there's damn good quality gear out there for cheaper, but it's your money so do what you want.

Originally Posted by KrispyK View Post
2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
Before I immersed myself with the sprinting side of things, I found the speed endurance sessions from Upupup to be particularly beneficial. I was combining those with shorter ~1.5hr high intensity road rides 2x per week. That workload was enough to get me very competitive in our local club A grade despite my hefty size
brawlo is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 12:17 AM
  #5627  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,766
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1292 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by KrispyK View Post
Thanks for all the advice and great reading that has been on here as I get into track racing. Loved my first race I did last week.

Couple of questions though.

1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.

2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
I'm glad you are loving the sport!

As far as trainer workouts go, you can use any workout plan that a Road Criterium Racer would use. That would provide a great aerobic foundation. Those programs are easy to find for free. Here are some on Bike Forums: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-b...cipe-book.html

You don't need a power meter. You can use a basic heart rate monitor to determine your FTP:

carleton is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 07:11 AM
  #5628  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,627
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1408 Post(s)
Liked 124 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by Clythio View Post
Considering you don't use that special pair of "race wheels" too much, how long can be the glue service - traditional stuff like Conti Carbon or Mastik-1 - be considered reliable?
What would be a recommended time - in years or months - to remove, clean excess and glue again, if the tire is good and everything is looking good?
Having cleaned glue off rims before, if you can avoid it, that is best.

I had a tubular tear on me once, so I had to clean the glue off to get the tire off. Once started, I had to go all the way until the rim was completely clean. It was a lot of work. There are plenty of solvents out there, but they soften the glue. There is still plenty of elbow grease involved to get it off.

Then you have to make sure the rim is clean of those solvents.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 07:55 AM
  #5629  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,147

Bikes: Tsunami Bikes

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Several questions, all pertaining to 500m TT:

1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.

2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?

3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).

4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.

5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.

6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.

7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.

8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 09:10 AM
  #5630  
Morelock
Senior Member
 
Morelock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 508
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
Several questions, all pertaining to 500m TT:

1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.

2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?

3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).

4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.

5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.

6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.

7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.

8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
1.) weight should have very, very little impact (almost nil) on a flat track. Peak power for another second however... likely means you are accelerating (standing start is where you'll hit peak power) considerably faster, which will have an impact.
2.) The last few years they have been pretty lax with the jig. That said... you should at the bare minimum contact them and get the head comm's opinion. Quite a few bikes without a uci sticker get used... but it can change on the whim of an official.
3.) To my knowledge, so long as front/back are the same size, you're good
4.) *rough guideline* it comes out a wash. People thought similarly in regards to aerodynamics... smaller leading edge *should* be more aero (vs a 700c wheel) but to compensate you have a longer head tube, again basically a wash.
5.) ride discs when you can. Indoors in a TT, that's always.
6.) when aerobars are legal, you should use them (assuming you have an optimized position, etc etc)
7.) you get to choose one exemption, no questions asked (they don't measure you on the bike, just the bike) - with aerobars it's either a.) at least -5cm saddle to bb and up to 80cm reach, or b.)at most 0cm saddle to bb and up to 75cm reach. There is an extra 5cm reach available to people over 6ft (I can't remember exactly how tall you have to be, again, check out the uci technical guide)
8.) run what you have... again assuming it checks out ok.
Morelock is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 10:45 AM
  #5631  
tobukog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 210
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
2) Bikes no longer have to be UCI compliant at Masters Nationals. Of course, this may change.

4) 24" wheels will also usually have better aerodynamics because of lower rotational drag. However this is probably offset by the higher rolling resistance of smaller wheels. Rotational drag is hard to test, and I can't think of anyone who has current rolling resistance data of 24" tires.

Another issue is that it's really challenging to find good fast tires at 24" since it's such a rare rim size.
tobukog is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 04:17 PM
  #5632  
Clythio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
Several questions, all pertaining to 500m TT:

1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.

2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?

3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).

4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.

5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.

6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.

7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.

8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
1 - AC model works well if peakpower time is corrected, they use sec 4 I think, and reality is maybe 7 or 8 after the time start. Model is maybe 0,5sec faster because its model is for pros position/equipment. 1kg + gives 0,1sec worst time. I'm afraid the model is for a 333 track, it also affects results. How is you measuring the power data you're using at the model?
2 - Believe that anything with 2 triangles, 3:1 rule ok, etc., would be allowed to start.
3 - If faster, someone were using it, those 24" wheels.
4 -
5 - Really fast guys use front discs - but only indoor, of course.
6 - Same with me - I'm 61 and race 500m TT. Checked first lap top/ave power with both configs, and as I don't loose anything with clips, decided to keep it in order to go faster on the final 300m. From pro women videos, you can see bigger riders go on clips, smaller on handlebars, and smoother riders go on clip, the more "explosives" prefer handlebars, each one looking for best suitable setup. Or, finally, "it depends"...
7 - Bontrager Hilo RXL for me. I'm large, heavy, need good support, and a like a front long flat nose with little ramp on the rear part of this seat.
8 - Tested a lot, and for the standing start, better high for side handles is not too low..
Clythio is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 07:55 PM
  #5633  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,147

Bikes: Tsunami Bikes

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanks for all the responses. I'm at work 12 hours tomorrow so will not be able to respond further for a bit, just got back home now.

I'm a shorter rider with a long torso (road bike is 40 cm ST, 56.5 cm TT). I don't think I qualify for any morphological exceptions except possibly my quads are so short that it might do something (I vaguely recall something about that, but I will look at it later). My torso is long enough that I'll be pretty stretched out if I use aero bars.

Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
1.) weight should have very, very little impact (almost nil) on a flat track. Peak power for another second however... likely means you are accelerating (standing start is where you'll hit peak power) considerably faster, which will have an impact.
2.) The last few years they have been pretty lax with the jig. That said... you should at the bare minimum contact them and get the head comm's opinion. Quite a few bikes without a uci sticker get used... but it can change on the whim of an official.
3.) To my knowledge, so long as front/back are the same size, you're good
4.) *rough guideline* it comes out a wash. People thought similarly in regards to aerodynamics... smaller leading edge *should* be more aero (vs a 700c wheel) but to compensate you have a longer head tube, again basically a wash.
5.) ride discs when you can. Indoors in a TT, that's always.
6.) when aerobars are legal, you should use them (assuming you have an optimized position, etc etc)
7.) you get to choose one exemption, no questions asked (they don't measure you on the bike, just the bike) - with aerobars it's either a.) at least -5cm saddle to bb and up to 80cm reach, or b.)at most 0cm saddle to bb and up to 75cm reach. There is an extra 5cm reach available to people over 6ft (I can't remember exactly how tall you have to be, again, check out the uci technical guide)
8.) run what you have... again assuming it checks out ok.
My thought on the smaller wheels was more geared toward acceleration, i.e. they should be much easier to accelerate up to speed. They'd require more work to keep going, and they'll have higher rolling resistance.

My concerns include spares (no one has any), and investing in a custom frame that may or may not have available wheels or even gearing. I'd have to run crazy big gears to make a 24" wheel work.

Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
2) Bikes no longer have to be UCI compliant at Masters Nationals. Of course, this may change.

4) 24" wheels will also usually have better aerodynamics because of lower rotational drag. However this is probably offset by the higher rolling resistance of smaller wheels. Rotational drag is hard to test, and I can't think of anyone who has current rolling resistance data of 24" tires.

Another issue is that it's really challenging to find good fast tires at 24" since it's such a rare rim size.
I didn't know Masters didn't have to follow UCI guidelines. It doesn't mean I'm going to go hogwild, it just means that maybe a non-UCI frame would work (guy that built my frames is not UCI certified).

Originally Posted by Clythio View Post
1 - AC model works well if peakpower time is corrected, they use sec 4 I think, and reality is maybe 7 or 8 after the time start. Model is maybe 0,5sec faster because its model is for pros position/equipment. 1kg + gives 0,1sec worst time. I'm afraid the model is for a 333 track, it also affects results. How is you measuring the power data you're using at the model?
2 - Believe that anything with 2 triangles, 3:1 rule ok, etc., would be allowed to start.
3 - If faster, someone were using it, those 24" wheels.
4 -
5 - Really fast guys use front discs - but only indoor, of course.
6 - Same with me - I'm 61 and race 500m TT. Checked first lap top/ave power with both configs, and as I don't loose anything with clips, decided to keep it in order to go faster on the final 300m. From pro women videos, you can see bigger riders go on clips, smaller on handlebars, and smoother riders go on clip, the more "explosives" prefer handlebars, each one looking for best suitable setup. Or, finally, "it depends"...
7 - Bontrager Hilo RXL for me. I'm large, heavy, need good support, and a like a front long flat nose with little ramp on the rear part of this seat.
8 - Tested a lot, and for the standing start, better high for side handles is not too low..
I'm not sure what you mean by "sec 4" vs "7 or 8". Could you explain?

I'll add 0.5 sec, or make my aero drag significant, to give me a more realistic prediction.

I'm using an SRM (Cannondale SI model, not sure how precise it is, wireless) to measure power. I was using my best recent 35 second power number as an average, and my best recent 2 second number for 2 seconds (both numbers hit in one effort). I'm not that fast so the AC number didn't make sense to me.

I don't understand the second bit. Are you saying that it's better that the base bar handles not be too low? I was thinking it would be good to match my drop position (BB->Drops relationship) as that's what seems to determine stability under acceleration. I experimented with sprint position on the road and found that having the bars a certain relationship to the BB was the best. Higher up, further forward, or even further back, not as good. On the other hand I have never ever done max effort standing starts so there's that. Only standing starts I've done were for regular long time trials, 16-65 minutes long, so I started pretty gently relatively speaking.

Time for bed, thanks for giving me all these things to think about.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 11:40 PM
  #5634  
Clythio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post

I'm not sure what you mean by "sec 4" vs "7 or 8". Could you explain?

I'll add 0.5 sec, or make my aero drag significant, to give me a more realistic prediction.

I'm using an SRM (Cannondale SI model, not sure how precise it is, wireless) to measure power. I was using my best recent 35 second power number as an average, and my best recent 2 second number for 2 seconds (both numbers hit in one effort). I'm not that fast so the AC number didn't make sense to me.

I don't understand the second bit. Are you saying that it's better that the base bar handles not be too low? I was thinking it would be good to match my drop position (BB->Drops relationship) as that's what seems to determine stability under acceleration. I experimented with sprint position on the road and found that having the bars a certain relationship to the BB was the best. Higher up, further forward, or even further back, not as good. On the other hand I have never ever done max effort standing starts so there's that. Only standing starts I've done were for regular long time trials, 16-65 minutes long, so I started pretty gently relatively speaking.

Time for bed, thanks for giving me all these things to think about.
"Time in which power is maximum"... they use 3,7 as default - reality for me is 8 to 9 sec - play with that and check how it changes result.
I use "Time period" 38, if result is slightly lower like 37,6. etc. no that 50" default - this 50" brings time 2 sec down and wrong - I play it in an iterative way until both numbers converge - estimated time and "Time period".
Using my Mexico 2018 Pan numbers (I rode a decent 37,6 sec - WKO image below) I got very near results - 37,5 and 37,8, just playing with 8 and 9 for the peak power time.
Clythio is offline  
Old 09-26-19, 11:43 PM
  #5635  
Clythio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Clythio is offline  
Old 09-27-19, 04:05 AM
  #5636  
Morelock
Senior Member
 
Morelock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 508
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
@carpediemracing

The only morphological exemption that still exists (again, in my above post, anyone can choose the one regarding saddle position/reach "for free") is that you gain an extra 5cm reach (for a total possible 85cm bb to extension tip) - but only if you are 190cm or taller. Otherwise, nothing special for body type.

Here is the updated UCI technical document. Be sure to check it out.
Morelock is offline  
Old 09-29-19, 07:00 PM
  #5637  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,147

Bikes: Tsunami Bikes

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Clythio View Post
This makes sense. My peak power is pretty peaky, I was using 2s for peak power time, not much longer, but I'll play around a bit. I think one factor is that pretty much every effort I make is from a rolling start, aka pretty fast, so my rpm is higher. I haven't made any 0 rpm starts. I imagine my initial power will be lower, and my peak may not be as peaky because it'll take me time to get into any kind of decent rpms. Thanks.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 09-29-19, 07:12 PM
  #5638  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,147

Bikes: Tsunami Bikes

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
@carpediemracing

The only morphological exemption that still exists (again, in my above post, anyone can choose the one regarding saddle position/reach "for free") is that you gain an extra 5cm reach (for a total possible 85cm bb to extension tip) - but only if you are 190cm or taller. Otherwise, nothing special for body type.

Here is the updated UCI technical document. Be sure to check it out.
I've been looking at this document because it seems to simply things, at least for me:
http://usac-officials.org/Download/U...nt%20Guide.pdf

It mentions saddle position exceptions that would apply primarily to shorter riders (aka me). I have very short quads, to the point that I have very little setback. I moved my saddle back a bit to attain 0 cm setback (well, 4mm to be precise). I think I got more of it back going to an ISM saddle, but where I need to put the saddle depends on me choosing aero or drop bars.

I realize I need to do some more experimenting on the bike and do some research off of it. Thanks for your help so far, it has clarified a lot of my thoughts.

The bike measurement "free exception" is something I had no idea existed until you mentioned it in your response.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 09-29-19, 07:26 PM
  #5639  
Morelock
Senior Member
 
Morelock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 508
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
^that document is outdated. The one I linked to is the current ruleset.
Morelock is offline  
Old 09-30-19, 01:34 PM
  #5640  
jods
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
True.

My guess is that their is either some marketing gamesmanship going on or production holdups.

Recall that we didn't see the GB bikes until the London Olympics. The Felt TA FRD was only introduced like 3 months before the Rio Olympics.

Wheels are much easier to copy than bikes. It is reasonable that Zipp may be keeping their designs close to the vest for as long as they can to avoid competitors having time enough to copy them. Keep in mind, they may be unveiling wheels for the other Olympic cycling events which may all be of this new generation.
I'm sure there is a new regulation somewhere that will mean that instead of seeing all the new equipment in Tokyo, it'll have to make an appearance in competition 6months prior. I can't find the exact rule on this, but I'm lead to believe, for the eagle eyed among you that this years world cup season may be a great hunting ground for new tech. So eyes peeled, and who knows the new Zipp wheels may turn up there
jods is offline  
Likes For jods:
Old 09-30-19, 07:07 PM
  #5641  
Baby Puke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kanazawa
Posts: 1,571

Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF4, Intense Pro24 BMX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Not quite sure where to put this, couldn't find a track wheels thread that seemed relevant:

I just came into an older Campy Ghibli disc, the one with the alloy rim, black sides with the white five-pointed star. It's a gorgeous wheel, but the axle is very short. I've only got maybe three threads engaged with the nuts on each side. Is this normal? Seems like the axle is sized for thin track ends like on an old school steel frameset. If I order a new axle will it be the same length?
Baby Puke is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 03:17 AM
  #5642  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,766
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1292 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by jods View Post
I'm sure there is a new regulation somewhere that will mean that instead of seeing all the new equipment in Tokyo, it'll have to make an appearance in competition 6months prior. I can't find the exact rule on this, but I'm lead to believe, for the eagle eyed among you that this years world cup season may be a great hunting ground for new tech. So eyes peeled, and who knows the new Zipp wheels may turn up there
Interesting. Thanks!
carleton is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 03:23 AM
  #5643  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,766
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1292 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Not quite sure where to put this, couldn't find a track wheels thread that seemed relevant:

I just came into an older Campy Ghibli disc, the one with the alloy rim, black sides with the white five-pointed star. It's a gorgeous wheel, but the axle is very short. I've only got maybe three threads engaged with the nuts on each side. Is this normal? Seems like the axle is sized for thin track ends like on an old school steel frameset. If I order a new axle will it be the same length?
There are some generations of Zipp discs like that, too. Like you say, they are made with thin steel track ends in mind. I can't recall the model, but it was the first generation that was black with the modern white "Zipp" stickers on it.

Not sure what your options are. Maybe ask over in bike mechanics who may be more familiar with dealing with specs on parts. Or they might be able to point you to a catalog with specs.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/


...or you can simply use it exclusively on your NJS bike
carleton is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 05:28 AM
  #5644  
ruudlaff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by jods View Post
I'm sure there is a new regulation somewhere that will mean that instead of seeing all the new equipment in Tokyo, it'll have to make an appearance in competition 6months prior. I can't find the exact rule on this, but I'm lead to believe, for the eagle eyed among you that this years world cup season may be a great hunting ground for new tech. So eyes peeled, and who knows the new Zipp wheels may turn up there
I believe the rules are being interpreted that the constituent parts of the finished track bikes for the Olympics don't have to be getting run together to count.

Also, not everyone in a team needs to be on them for it to count either, I'm lead to think.

It'll take eagle eyes to spot who is running the new frames/bars/wheels etc.
ruudlaff is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 07:45 AM
  #5645  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,627
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1408 Post(s)
Liked 124 Times in 87 Posts
New frames and wheels would have to go through UCI approval.

They've posted lists of approved equipment, though I do not know how frequently it is posted. In the past, that list has indicated when frame updates are coming.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 07:47 AM
  #5646  
Baby Puke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kanazawa
Posts: 1,571

Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF4, Intense Pro24 BMX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
There are some generations of Zipp discs like that, too. Like you say, they are made with thin steel track ends in mind. I can't recall the model, but it was the first generation that was black with the modern white "Zipp" stickers on it.

Not sure what your options are. Maybe ask over in bike mechanics who may be more familiar with dealing with specs on parts. Or they might be able to point you to a catalog with specs.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/


...or you can simply use it exclusively on your NJS bike
Sadly I had to leave the Panasonic in the US. But actually I think I found a "long" option replacement axle from a Japanese supplier.
Baby Puke is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 08:29 AM
  #5647  
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,550
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Not quite sure where to put this, couldn't find a track wheels thread that seemed relevant:

I just came into an older Campy Ghibli disc, the one with the alloy rim, black sides with the white five-pointed star. It's a gorgeous wheel, but the axle is very short. I've only got maybe three threads engaged with the nuts on each side. Is this normal? Seems like the axle is sized for thin track ends like on an old school steel frameset. If I order a new axle will it be the same length?
you can order a new axle - and it doesn't even need to be from campagnolo. as long as the threading is the same, you can get it as long as you want, cut it to length, clean up the threads, and thread your hardware and wheel on to it.
queerpunk is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 01:25 PM
  #5648  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,766
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1292 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by ruudlaff View Post
I believe the rules are being interpreted that the constituent parts of the finished track bikes for the Olympics don't have to be getting run together to count.

Also, not everyone in a team needs to be on them for it to count either, I'm lead to think.

It'll take eagle eyes to spot who is running the new frames/bars/wheels etc.
Oh, that’s right!

I recall one of the new (at the time) LOOK L96 bikes was ridden by US Paralympian Jennifer Schuble before the London Olympics.

Basically, I think she received (and raced) her L96 before the London Olympics and Paralympics. I don’t think the bike’s existence was a secret. Baugé and others were seen on them. She had one of the first “commercially available” ones...in size EXTRA EXTRA small (seriously). No chance of that being raced against the French Olympians. Only Sandie Clair rides that size. Jenn kicked butt racing the French Paralympians, though!

Jen went from racing this:



To this:





Last edited by carleton; 10-01-19 at 01:42 PM.
carleton is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 01:48 PM
  #5649  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,766
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1292 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
And for those wondering, @jods OBE is no stranger to a podium:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jody_Cundy

(Let me know if I'm embarrassing you.)
carleton is offline  
Old 10-01-19, 02:21 PM
  #5650  
700wheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
you can order a new axle - and it doesn't even need to be from campagnolo. as long as the threading is the same, you can get it as long as you want, cut it to length, clean up the threads, and thread your hardware and wheel on to it.
If you know what threads you need then check out McMaster Carr; they sell metric threaded rods, both fully threaded and threaded both-ends, using high strength steel. You may find something you can use.
https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-rods
700wheel is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.