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CBD Oil

Old 01-01-20, 08:02 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I just took a Continuing Ed course on the Endocannabinoid system (ECS), the the network of receptors in your body which respond to THC and CBD. I have a 37-page slide show if anyone wants actual facts. I can't see any point in posting 37 pages here ... but anyone who chooses not to believe is free to ignore decades of pharmaceutical research and discovery.

An excerpt: "The endocannabinoid system is a widespread neuromodulatory system with far-reaching effects throughout the whole body, from the CNS to the periphery and all organs. it is comprised of cannabinoid receptors, endogenous cannabinoids (endocannabinoids--specialized eicosanoids that the body makes from lipids (fatty acid precursors)) and the enzymes responsible for the synthesis and degradation of the endocannabonoids."

The primary endocannabinoids include anandimide and 2-Arachidonoylglycerol (2-AG.) The body produces these naturally to regulate the ECS system.

CBD taken as medicine inhabits the reuptake and degradation of endocannabnoids and can have powerful effects on the body.

CBD can increase serotonin which could increase effectiveness but also the side effects of anti depressants. It is a PPAR activator---it can shrink tumors plaque associated with Alzheimers. CBD also increases the body’s insulin sensitivity---diabetes patients taking CBD might need less insulin. CBD also can inhibit the body’s ability to metabolize some drugs including NSAIDs, opiates, statins and warfarin, making these drugs effectively more potent and longer-lasting.

I am sure whenever some new medicine was discovered, there was some fool shouting “Snake oil!”.

Usually those were people not sufficiently concerned with facts to bother doing even basic research.

I think this is known in medical circles as “Old man yells at clouds” syndrome ……..

Interesting note for recreational cyclists: Moderate exercise increase serum concentration of endocannabinoids

Forced exercise is interpreted as stress and deplete ECS. Ride with a smile for maximum health benefits.
This research is all very interesting, but there's one thing I just can't figure out. What's the end result of CBD on one's cycling/training? How much, when, why? Yes, it does stuff, but what's the end result? Will it make me faster? Recover more quickly? Live longer? Those are the simple questions I ask about every supplement. I don't see any studies answering those questions. I really don't give a FF about the specific chemical reactions. I just want to know about the results.

I've tried some CBD and didn't notice anything. Nothing. OTOH since there's no content guarantee, it's impossible to know if I was even taking CBD. The DNA folks tell us that what's written on the outside of cannabis packaging seems to have very little to do with the contents. It's probably worse with CBD since one can't readily feel the effects. We all should know that when one does a study, there will be a ~40% positive effect rate just from the placebo.

For sure exercise makes one stoned. Everyone who's ridden hard knows that. But as you say, smiling also releases these same hormones. Not that many folks know that. Next time you're hurting on a big climb, give it a big smile. It works. Smiling isn't just a signal. This effect might be the reason that when one smiles, others smile back. "Yeah, gimme the drugs, now." Two stoned people are more likely to have a pleasant interaction.
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Old 01-02-20, 07:22 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
This research is all very interesting, but there's one thing I just can't figure out. What's the end result of CBD on one's cycling/training? How much, when, why? Yes, it does stuff, but what's the end result? Will it make me faster? Recover more quickly? Live longer? Those are the simple questions I ask about every supplement. I don't see any studies answering those questions. I really don't give a FF about the specific chemical reactions. I just want to know about the results.

I've tried some CBD and didn't notice anything. Nothing. OTOH since there's no content guarantee, it's impossible to know if I was even taking CBD. The DNA folks tell us that what's written on the outside of cannabis packaging seems to have very little to do with the contents. It's probably worse with CBD since one can't readily feel the effects. We all should know that when one does a study, there will be a ~40% positive effect rate just from the placebo.

For sure exercise makes one stoned. Everyone who's ridden hard knows that. But as you say, smiling also releases these same hormones. Not that many folks know that. Next time you're hurting on a big climb, give it a big smile. It works. Smiling isn't just a signal. This effect might be the reason that when one smiles, others smile back. "Yeah, gimme the drugs, now." Two stoned people are more likely to have a pleasant interaction.
CBD is not a supplement. It is useful for fighting pain and inflammation, creates calmness to some degree, (limiting the fight/flight reflex.) People generally use CBD oil-based creams or liquids as a topical pain medication, or for general pain.

A lot of manufacturers will not make any claims, and often will not even list CBD as an ingredient, because of the morass of Federal and state laws. For instance, even though anything containing less than 0.3 percent THC is considered legal, but some online stores (Amazon, particularly) won’t carry anything which contains any CBD or THC—they don’t want to take the risk of some random lawsuit, even if they are covered legally.

The pharmacist who gave the lecture online listed a few brands he had experience with and trusted, but I didn’t save the names. As for which brands you might use … ask the folks here who are using CBD. They have likely tried a few products and found the ones which worked best.

However, the idea that one cannot feel the effects is not accurate. If CBD didn’t lessen pain no one would use it as a painkiller. CBD is effective, and the science is well understood.

If you are looking for performance-enhancing effects, and taking it as a supplement, you are likely wasting money—if your ECS is not out of balance to begin with, taking more won’t help.

Also … we are not talking about endorphins. Yes, smiling, laughing, hugging, can all release endorphins. The ECS (EndoCannabinoid System) is a separate system within the body which is (to quote) “a master regulator of all systems in maintaining homeostasis, balance, or a stable equilibrium in the body.” It is “essential to life and health as it relays messages that affect how we relax, eat, sleep, forget, and protect.”

As many people here have stated, CBD is effective at topical pain relief, and is particularly good for chronic pain because it is not addictive and damaging as would be the case with opioids.
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Old 01-02-20, 01:30 PM
  #78  
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They don't list any claims because there's no research to back it up. For 100 years the government has banned the use, sale, and research of marijuana and all of its derivatives, while continuing to maintain there is no legitimate medical use for this substance.
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Old 01-02-20, 06:07 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
...I've tried some CBD and didn't notice anything. Nothing. OTOH since there's no content guarantee, it's impossible to know if I was even taking CBD. The DNA folks tell us that what's written on the outside of cannabis packaging.. seems to have very little to do with the contents. It's probably worse with CBD since one can't readily feel the effects. We all should know that when one does a study, there will be a ~40% positive effect rate just from the placebo.
Yeah, I thought the whole endocannabinoid system thing was pseudo-science promoted by the CBD industry and stoners, but after doing more reading I realized it's a real thing. Same with the opiate receptors in the body. Nature seems to have engineered us and our natural environment pretty well. Or those humans who didn't benefit died out, leaving mostly folks who do have those receptors.

And apparently many humans can self-medicate fairly effectively with physical activity. I know I experience a few hours of significant relief from chronic pain during and after light to moderate exercise. Beyond a certain level of exertion the pain all athletes experience at their extremes of effort tends to overwhelm the body's ability to moderate pain without outside assistance.

User anecdotes and some studies (see PubMed) indicate a small amount of THC needs to be present for CBD to be effective for some people. That was true for me. It doesn't even need to be as much as the 0.3% permitted by the FDA to be classified as CBD rather than a controlled substance.

I tried half a dozen brands and types that did nothing until finding one that did work. Some were CBD isolates, no THC, from reliable suppliers. Others were probably just hemp oil with terpene additives to mimic the odor and flavor of cannabis.

After reading a lot of user reviews and weeding out the hyperbole, I tried two that received consistently positive and credible reviews: Green Mountain (now renamed SunSoil -- the Vermont grower apparently had some conflicts with another business using Green Mountain as a brand name) and Lazarus Naturals. Both offered full spectrum CBD, meaning it contained THC within the permissible limit. Both worked for me. But Lazarus was less expensive and besides having the lowest price in the industry among reputable makers, they also offered generous discounts to veterans like me. So I've been using Lazarous for a year. It works. Try their full spectrum, high potency oil.

To describe the effect, the best analogy I can make is good CBD does what NSAIDs are supposed to do, but never do for me. For almost 20 years I took up to 800 mg or more of ibuprofen a day, with little effect. Diclofenac wasn't much better, but at least it's only one or two small pills a day. Aspirin and acetaminophen did nothing. For me a good CBD has an effect similar to a small dose of a low strength opiate like half a hydrocodone or Tramadol, or a very low dose of cyclobenzaprine -- without the drowsiness or sluggish sensation. It's good for pain up to around 6 on a scale of 10. Above that it only reduces the pain slightly and CBD was not effective for my worst pain after being hit by a car in 2018 (broken and dislocated shoulder), or frequent severe headaches. But it's great for daily moderate chronic pain.

Some folks may experience mild reactions to the small amount of THC in the high potency versions. That reaction may happen on the first time or two. Studies show the human body adapts very quickly to the psychoactive effect of THC, while the benefits continue without needing larger doses -- relief from pain, anxiety and nausea, etc.

Check out Lazarus Naturals and Sunsoil. Both are worth a try.
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Old 01-02-20, 09:09 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Doesnt everyone know that rubbing some amazing stuff on your skin is akin to snake oil.

Your skin that keeps things from leaking out does not let things leak in.
You need to look up a thing called “absorption”. It it the reason you need to wear PPE when working with chemicals.
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Old 01-02-20, 11:35 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post





Check out Lazarus Naturals and Sunsoil. Both are worth a try.
Not that your input and recommendation on this topic aren't valid (I know you suffer from chronic pain) but the only problem with the suggestion is that each individual responds to relief differently.

Now if these remedies were covered by insurance that would be different. But this would be something I'd have to pay for out of pocket, and going through all the different types, formulas and potencies would get real expensive real quick.

On the other hand, if someone was already going to purchase one, these suggestion would narrow the field. I keep getting regulars ads from my nutritional websites and this month there is a "new formula" CBT where the price has gone up to $70 a bottle! My biggest fear is that I'll spend hundreds of dollars testing these formulas and still not get any relief.

I guess I'll just have to continue to suffer until some kind soul that has already purchased the product gives me one of their pills and then I can make my evaluation -- will it even work on nerve pain? All this in addition to my regular supplement purchases trying to stay in front of the all the other ravages of Father Time.

Reminds me of the old muscle building packs/formula potions which turned out to be nothing more than very expensive vitamins.
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Old 01-03-20, 12:18 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
<snip>Check out Lazarus Naturals and Sunsoil. Both are worth a try.
Took a look. $12/g is pretty pricey. What do you do with it? External, under tongue? What's your application method and how much do you use?
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Old 01-03-20, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Took a look. $12/g is pretty pricey. What do you do with it? External, under tongue? What's your application method and how much do you use?
I have no idea of the concentration of CBD in those products. If it anywhere near the level of THC in 1970s hash oils, $12/gram is a bargain. A gram of hash oil went a long way (or made for a ridiculous high).
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Old 01-04-20, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Took a look. $12/g is pretty pricey. What do you do with it? External, under tongue? What's your application method and how much do you use?
Yup, no argument from me. CBD is expensive now, even with the generous discount I get from Lazarus -- up to 60% off retail for veterans, folks on disability (SSI, SSDI), or low income (documentation required, easy enough for veterans -- just a DD214).

I'm betting competition will force the prices down enough to make it affordable to almost everyone. The money will be in marketing, premium products and boutique items for folks who would otherwise prefer pricey coffee or craft beer. Some strains of cannabis have complex, even exquisite odors and the buds alone are almost works of art -- multi-hued, intricate shapes. Some folks will happily pay extra for that. But utilitarian cannabis for relief from pain and anxiety will be much more affordable. It'll be the Folgers of hemp.

For folks who respond well to aspirin, acetaminophen or ibuprofen for minor to moderate chronic pain, those are better values. But I get zero relief from OTC analgesics and anti-inflammatories. This dates back decades, many injuries, many headaches.

Opiates and prescription muscle relaxers do work but I dislike taking those. They make me sluggish. I had to take a muscle relaxer on four days out of the past week and that's extremely unusual for me. A 30 pill prescription of muscle relaxers and hydrocodone or Tramadol usually lasts me a full year. I take them only when nothing else works. That's how bad my neck spasms were the past week. I still exercised at home and rode my bike, but I felt wooly.

CBD has been an effective substitute for OTC NSAIDs and analgesics, but *not* for prescription pain meds. It's good, but not *that* good.

Dosage depends on individual tolerance, which seems to be primarily related to THC rather than the non-psychoactive CBD. For some people 10mg or less of CBD isolate (no THC) or full spectrum (0.3% or less THC) is enough. My tolerance is pretty high so I use the high potency stuff, 50mg per serving -- that's either 1 ml in a dropper, or a capsule filled with powdered CBD/THC or oil.

I prefer the dropper and oil because I can start with a low dose and wait 15 minutes to decide whether to take more. I usually start with 1/4 of a 1 ml dropper, approximately 12.5mg, in my first cup of coffee. I like the Lazarus chocolate mint flavor and it doesn't detract from the flavor of my coffee. I'll also apply it sublingually, under the tongue, and hold it for about a minute. But that isn't critical. The body absorbs some chemicals pretty quickly under the tongue. Usually I'll feel relief within 15 minutes. If not, I'll take another 1/4 dropper and wait again. Same at night. If I wake up in pain, I'll take 1/4 dropper, read for awhile, and drift back to sleep.

The pill versions -- gel caps with powder, softgels with oil, etc. -- tend to take longer to have any effect and then dump the entire effect quickly. When I take a 50mg capsule it takes an hour or so to take effect and does so very quickly, making me feel a bit sluggish. Same reason I dislike taking my prescription pain meds. Occasionally I'll keep a bottle of the capsules around for really bad days when I don't plan to go out. But I don't take them often.

I find the oil and dropper works quicker and is easier to adjust to suit how I feel that day.

Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I have no idea of the concentration of CBD in those products. If it anywhere near the level of THC in 1970s hash oils, $12/gram is a bargain. A gram of hash oil went a long way (or made for a ridiculous high).
Very low. Currently the FDA regards 0.3% or less of THC to be acceptable for CBD. It's such a small amount that only the most sensitive people will feel any psychoactive effect. Lazarus lab results show their products generally contain less than half of that, so it's well within the limits and should be acceptable to any state or municipality that's concerned about the gray zone for deregulating hemp/cannabis.

There aren't many definitive studies yet, but anecdotes from users indicate similar experiences -- it takes only a tiny amount of THC to enhance the pain relieving effects of CBD. Beyond that amount, including concentrating THC in liquid for vaping, it's less effective for pain and anxiety.

That's true for me -- more THC is not better in terms of pain relief. Before my injuries and illness in 2018, I hadn't used any cannabis since i was a teenager in the 1970s. It wasn't a big deal to me then and I wasn't even much of a beer drinker. From my misspent youth, but I recall that it did nothing for pain. I recall a couple of times when I had a severe headache and friends suggested reefer. If anything it made my headaches worse, or possibly the psychoactive effect of THC made the pain seem more intense and focused. I dislike that effect of THC -- the tunnel vision or blinders effect, the tendency to narrow thoughts down to a single issue. It's one reason why stoners are often the brunt of jokes and stereotypes.

I'd had severe headaches since childhood (variously diagnosed as migraine, cluster headache and trigeminal neuralgia -- neurologists are mostly just guessing about most maladies under their purview). Nothing helped. Fortunately as a kid they happened maybe once a year. By the time I was in my 20s I was getting them about once a month. By my 40s I was practically crippled by almost daily severe headaches with dizziness, nausea, retching -- the whole shebang. The only medicine that worked was an injection of Imitrex, a triptan that's now more mainstream. SSRIs were also tried to prevent them or minimize frequency and severity, but those didn't help much. After age 60 the headaches eased a bit in frequency and severity -- maybe once a month now, sometimes less often.

After my shoulder and neck injury in 2018, and subsequent problems with dysfunctional thyroid and cancer, I was often in so much pain I was willing to try anything. So when friends offered a puff from a THC vape pen I accepted. There was that immediate and unforgettable effect of being stoned. But no significant pain relief. A high concentration of THC wasn't effective for my pain. And it had that same old psychoactive effect that I became bored with very quickly. The effect would last for hours, but I was bored with it after 30 minutes.

CBD would be the least cost effective way to get high, if that's what someone wanted. It would take an entire bottle of oil or pills to get anything close to the high from hash, THC oil or potent reefer.
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Old 01-10-20, 07:44 AM
  #85  
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My conditions, especially muscular ones, are self-limiting.

And it should be noted that the plural of anecdotes is not "data." Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But until some good science-meaning multiple placebo controlled, double blind and replicated studies-we honestly do not know. What is the dose? What are the side effects and interactions with other medicines?

Let's follow the science for a while and not just take the word of some dude selling it. You wouldn't do that for any other product...I hope.
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Old 01-10-20, 08:37 AM
  #86  
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Here's a good summary of what we actually know about CBD: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...-2018082414476
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Old 01-10-20, 08:57 AM
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See also: https://www.wsj.com/articles/cloudy-...ks-11578574807
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Old 01-10-20, 02:14 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by bblair View Post
My conditions, especially muscular ones, are self-limiting.

And it should be noted that the plural of anecdotes is not "data." Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But until some good science-meaning multiple placebo controlled, double blind and replicated studies-we honestly do not know. What is the dose? What are the side effects and interactions with other medicines?

Let's follow the science for a while and not just take the word of some dude selling it. You wouldn't do that for any other product...I hope.
To be fair "the word of some dude selling it" does not negate its effectiveness. And yes, anecdotes is data. Cannabis is a perfect example of this.
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Old 01-10-20, 06:41 PM
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That Harvard blog entry is superficial, not much more than dozens of similar piling-on articles on Buzzfeed and other pop culture magazines. And the WSJ article only confirms what we already know about the FDA -- the agency's mission is to take an extremely cautious position. Lack of evidence about how and why it works is not proof that it doesn't work.

There are many more detailed studies on PubMed and other sites. It'll take awhile to chew through them but few researchers dismiss the claims for relief from pain and anxiety as mere placebo effect. The main specious claim they do dismiss is that cannabis "cures cancer." That claim appears to derive from careless interpretations by laypersons (or clickbait by unscrupulous health gurus) about cannabis being useful for helping restore the appetite in cancer patients, relieving nausea, and enabling them to eat a good diet, which can help with recovery.

And there are studies of the effects on relief from pain and anxiety, but inconclusive. Researchers agree that patients report relief from pain and associated anxiety. But they haven't quite pinned down why cannabis works. And some report that subjects in studies experienced a rapid adaptation to the psychoactive effects of THC, feeling less "high" with repeated use, yet also reported no decrease in pain relief.

One possible risk, not yet definitive, indicates that massive amounts of CBD may be associated with liver damage. IIRC, that's one study.

I'm usually very cautious about supplements, especially those derived from "natural" sources and concentrated as if more than we can get from a normal balanced diet is supposed to be better. I take some supplements, mostly stuff suggested for athletes -- amino acids, etc. -- but always with a dose of salts.

But cannabis has a long history and enough anecdotes about desired effects and unwanted side effects to make it a safe bet. No different from alcohol, the use of which appears to have begun approximately one week after the dawn of man when his week-old fruit fermented. Research mostly added a sciency sheen over what we already knew about booze from thousands of years of experience. On the plus side, science did confirm that tobacco is, in fact, bad pookie and doesn't belong in the human body.
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Old 01-11-20, 03:48 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
To be fair "the word of some dude selling it" does not negate its effectiveness. And yes, anecdotes is data. Cannabis is a perfect example of this.
No....stories are not data. Maybe a good start. And interesting, but do not prove anything. Otherwise my grandmother's chicken soup is a sure cure for everything.
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Old 01-14-20, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bblair View Post
No....stories are not data. Maybe a good start. And interesting, but do not prove anything. Otherwise my grandmother's chicken soup is a sure cure for everything.
Incorrect. All scientific investigations begins with observation. Stories are most certainly data.
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Old 01-15-20, 10:23 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
<snip>Dosage depends on individual tolerance, which seems to be primarily related to THC rather than the non-psychoactive CBD. For some people 10mg or less of CBD isolate (no THC) or full spectrum (0.3% or less THC) is enough. My tolerance is pretty high so I use the high potency stuff, 50mg per serving -- that's either 1 ml in a dropper, or a capsule filled with powdered CBD/THC or oil.<snip>
I see. I was curious about what you did with the CBD. Studies say that very little CBD reaches the blood stream from oral ingestion, though under the tongue is slightly better. I know many people apply it directly to the skin for joint pain, though I haven't seen data for blood concentration vs. application quantity.
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Old 01-15-20, 12:32 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I see. I was curious about what you did with the CBD. Studies say that very little CBD reaches the blood stream from oral ingestion, though under the tongue is slightly better. I know many people apply it directly to the skin for joint pain, though I haven't seen data for blood concentration vs. application quantity.
There are some common differences of opinion between cannabis users and experts who write about cannabis. The administration route and effectiveness is one of the most common points of contention.

Generally smoking (or vaping nowdays) is considered most effective for quickly getting the effects of cannabis, whether THC or CBD. But some folks can't smoke or vape so that's not practical. Smoking makes my throat raw and aggravates my asthma. I tried vaping CBD and it wasn't any more effective for me than orally ingesting capsules or sublingual, holding the oil under the tongue.

Most experienced cannabis users know it's more effective when decarboxylated. This already occurs just by smoking it, so that's the easiest route and produces the quickest results.

There's a persistent myth that cannabis won't produce the psychoactive effects associated with THC unless it's decarbed. They'll claim eating raw dried cannabis won't work. I can say from experience in my misspent youth... that ain't true. It very definitely will work. It just takes longer -- an hour or so. But it's more effective decarboxylated, which is why edibles are usually baked.

But cannabis -- including CBD buds -- can be decarbed just by heating it properly. While some folks get pedantic about methodology, basically just lightly toasting it under a heat source such as a broiler without burning it is generally good enough. Nowadays there are ovens made specifically for decarbing cannabis.

I've swallowed CBD gel capsules (oil in gelatin) and capsules containing powdered CBD and these do work very well. Presumably the CBD is decarbed as usual for cannabis/hemp. As with the psychoactive cannabis, it takes up to an hour or so to be effective ingested this way. But the same dosage is still very effective.

Sublingual administration is a good compromise. Takes about 10-15 minutes to be effective -- slower than smoking/vaping, but much quicker than oral ingestion. But much of the sublingual oil is swallowed even after holding it under the tongue for a minute or two. And it still works, possibly more effectively because the sublingual route is quicker but the rest that's swallowed begins working later.

I've read the reports claiming oral ingestion isn't as effective, or not effective at all, and researchers have backed up their assertions with lab tests showing low levels for whatever components they tested for, based on the presumption that they're testing for the right ingredients. My guess is they haven't identified every component that makes cannabis effective, or haven't yet figured out exactly how it works. But almost any cannabis user who's used it for recreational or medicinal purposes can confirm that oral ingestion does indeed work.

Regarding topical application... I can only say it's not as effective for me. Any relief I experience in my injured shoulder and neck probably comes from the act of massaging the area with my hands or a percussion massager. Same as with 99% of the topical analgesics I've tried over the nearly 20 years since I was hit by a car the first time. The only topical analgesic I've tried that definitely produced lasting results was Ted's Pain Cream (which I've written about before -- check their website for theories about topical application of resveratrol).
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Old 01-15-20, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
That Harvard blog entry is superficial, not much more than dozens of similar piling-on articles on Buzzfeed and other pop culture magazines.
LOL! Yeah, a report from Harvard citing peer reviewed articles is just like a Buzzfeed article.

Life's easier when you know the answers in advance, isn't it?
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Old 01-15-20, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
LOL! Yeah, a report from Harvard citing peer reviewed articles is just like a Buzzfeed article.

Life's easier when you know the answers in advance, isn't it?
Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.

That's a blog piece, an opinion by a doctor, not a peer reviewed research paper. It takes no position, other than positing a vague skepticism that can be summarized as "I dunno."

It cites no peer reviewed studies. The links are either self-referential (to other Harvard blogs), links to mere definitions of terms, or some context to the non-opinions that the author doesn't actually take.

The author's personal history of overcoming substance abuse may tinge his motivation. As an addict in recovery, of course he's going to be skeptical about claims for substances that have been negatively (and often inaccurately) associated with drug abuse and addiction, however inappropriately.

Citing a doctor writing a non-committal opinion piece in a blog that bears the name of a prestigious institution does not strengthen your arguments for skepticism about claims for cannabis as a therapeutic adjunct.

Try again. And skip the adolescent mockery.

While we're at it, here's another tangent for a potentially constructive discussion about cannabis:
  1. Does THC and cannabis containing a significant amount of THC produce psychoactive effects?
  2. How do we know this?
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Old 01-16-20, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
....
You are nothing if not consistent. Post convincing non-anecdotal evidence, and I’ll be happy to have another option for pain relief, stress management, or anything else CBD should prove effective for. In the meantime, I’ll be opting to give greater weight to doctors and med school publications than I do to the local CBD vendor or strangers on the internet.

Enjoy your CBD.
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Old 01-16-20, 07:44 AM
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Dr.Oz recently had CBD oil as a subject of part of his show (don't judge!) A person (think it was a staffer of theirs) tried CBD in many forms--balm, drops, and tablets. The results were very varied. Dosage was unclear, or non-existent, so that contributed. And, according to the show, CBD manufacturers are requesting for some guidelines to be established. Imagine putting an otc painkiller out without any guidelines on how many pills to take, or any research into what dosage is safe. I believe it may have some merit, but I'm waiting for more info and guidelines to be established.

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Old 01-16-20, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
<snip>
While we're at it, here's another tangent for a potentially constructive discussion about cannabis:
  1. Does THC and cannabis containing a significant amount of THC produce psychoactive effects?
  2. How do we know this?
I've used some 10mg CBD/1mg THC under the tongue, no discernible effects at all from either substance. Of course this stuff in not assayed. None of it.

Those of us who came of age in the 60s have a good sense of what a psychoactive effect is. I wouldn't know about the rest of you.

Of course my experience is not a study and everyone's different. It would take a number of large double-blind studies with known substances to be able to say anything more definite. Even one study is not useful. Studies must be repeatable for different researchers to be valid.

Meanwhile, experiment all you want. Personal experimentation won't do any harm (except to your wallet) as long as one proceeds cautiously. Don't be like one rather famous NYT reporter and eat a whole 10-hit candy in a couple hours. She did not pass her mental stability test. No wonder her writing is so bad.
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Old 01-16-20, 02:27 PM
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I just ordered some CBD balm from a company I trust. Although I've read that full-spectrum works best, I need to use THC-free, for reasons. I am looking forward to seeing how it works.
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Old 01-16-20, 02:51 PM
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So many who are desperate, scared, and vulnerable, are being duped by frauds and quacks, with the latest and increasingly implausible panacea.

I really hope you don't get liver and kidney problems. Nothing comes for free.

At least, please tell your doctor that you're taking these products, and in what amounts. These products interact with other medications, which can be dangerous.
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