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Bicycle / Pedestrian Accidents

Old 12-16-19, 08:36 AM
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Bicycle / Pedestrian Accidents

I ride the MUP's a lot. It is shocking to me the number of runners i see do a u-turn and run the other direction with out first looking over their shoulder to see if a bike is coming. Of course they are also plugged in so any audible warning of my approach is not heard. I came with in a second of taking out a woman yesterday, i'm sure i would not have fared so well either.

So my question is this. How do you think the courts would see this type of accident? Who would be held liable? It is posted that bikes are to yield right of way to a pedestrian but of course there is no way that a cyclists can predict when someone is going to turn right into them.
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Old 12-16-19, 08:40 AM
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Pedestrian has the right of way would be my guess
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Old 12-16-19, 08:41 AM
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Not saying it's right or wrong, but most people who are not riders have a negative opinion of cyclists in general
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Old 12-16-19, 09:33 AM
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Most likely a court would side with a pedestrian and say that the bicyclist should have slowed way down when approaching/overtaking any pedestrian/runner on a MUP.

It might not be fair to the bicyclist but that's what I think would most likely happen.

Btw, I've had a few instances around here when a high-speed bicyclist on a rial-trail has caused another slower bicyclist to crash as the slower bicyclist tried to avoid the high-speed bicyclist.

Cheers
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Old 12-16-19, 09:37 AM
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We all know that pretty much zero cyclist ever obey the speed limit law on these MUPs, which is usually 10-15mph max. So how fast were you going?

And in the court, if it's just your words versus jogger's words, you'd most likely lose. Judge is not gonna be sympathetic toward a cyclist vs jogger, and frankly neither am I (and I'm a cyclist). I see more ahole cyclists on MUPs than joggers. That's just reality.
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Old 12-16-19, 09:54 AM
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To be honest, I've had far more trouble with bicyclists pulling crap like that than joggers. Joggers are easier to swerve around, but when a bike is turned into the path, it usually blocks the lane you'd need to swerve into.
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Old 12-16-19, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
We all know that pretty much zero cyclist ever obey the speed limit law on these MUPs, which is usually 10-15mph max. So how fast were you going?

And in the court, if it's just your words versus jogger's words, you'd most likely lose. Judge is not gonna be sympathetic toward a cyclist vs jogger, and frankly neither am I (and I'm a cyclist). I see more ahole cyclists on MUPs than joggers. That's just reality.
This trail actually does not have a posted speed limit. I was going about 13-14 mph into a strong wind. This particular trail is about 16 miles long. Only about 4 of those miles are heavily used by pedestrians. I make a point of not speeding through crowded areas. I concede your point about ahole cyclists and i do not think joggers that do u-turns are aholes, just dumb. That said if I don't have someone coming the other direction and only one jogger to overtake i don't slow down but i am rarely going over 18 mph. On an 8 foot wide trail slowing down in case someone is suicidal seems absurd.
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Old 12-16-19, 10:02 AM
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The cyclist should take the responsibility. When approaching any pedestrian, slow down, ring your bell or horn, give a wide berth when passing in case the pedestrian swerves or changes direction. Expect the unexpected and ride (or drive) as if everybody else on the road is an idiot.
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Old 12-16-19, 10:45 AM
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Most traffic rules state that the entity being overtaken has the right of way. If you are the one doing the passing and the passee does something stupid that causes you to cream them, expect the law to come down on their side and not yours.

We frequently walk together at a local park also known for its, er...energetic cyclists. During one walk I was on the verge of reaching for her hand for a friendly squeeze when one of those guys zipped right between us with no warning. No telling what damage could have occurred.
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Old 12-16-19, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Most traffic rules state that the entity being overtaken has the right of way. If you are the one doing the passing and the passee does something stupid that causes you to cream them, expect the law to come down on their side and not yours.

We frequently walk together at a local park also known for its, er...energetic cyclists. During one walk I was on the verge of reaching for her hand for a friendly squeeze when one of those guys zipped right between us with no warning. No telling what damage could have occurred.
Wow, i really don't see a lot of that here for some reason. The group riders i see on the MUP are generally older and more inclined to give right of way. The younger Lycra crowd mostly sticks to the roads although single riders will buzz by unannounced on occasion. I have 4,200 miles on my bike so far in 2019. 90% of that is on the MUP's.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:04 AM
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Yup, it is always the responsibility of the person/vehicle that is doing the passing to pass safely. Right of way typically goes like this, Walker - Runner - Cyclist. If there are horses allowed on the trail/road, they trump everyone.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:34 AM
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WI state statutes.
346.803 Riding bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device on bicycle way.
(1)Every person operating a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device upon a bicycle way shall:
346.803(1)(a) (a) Exercise due care and give an audible signal when passing a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device rider or a pedestrian proceeding in the same direction.
(b) Obey each traffic signal or sign facing a roadway which runs parallel and adjacent to a bicycle way.
(2)Every person operating a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device upon a bicycle way open to 2-way traffic shall ride on the right side of the bicycle way.
(3)Every operator of a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device entering a bicycle way shall yield the right-of-way to all bicycles and pedestrians in the bicycle way.
(4)Except as provided in ss. 349.236 (1) (bm) and 349.237, a person may operate an electric personal assistive mobility device, or an electric scooter at a speed not to exceed 15 miles per hour, upon any bicycle path.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:45 AM
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There was such a case in VA about 5 years ago. I searched a bit but could not find any details on the internet, though I think it was discussed here. My memory is that the cyclist had such an encounter with a jogger, fell, and was injured. The cyclist brought a lawsuit against the jogger and won a judgement.

Disclaimer: My memory is suspect so I would not be surprised if the above scenario went the other way round, i.e. the jogger suing the cyclist. I'll continue to see if I can find some details.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:59 AM
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Humans on any MUP wearing earphones are worse than squirrels. I'm gonna make my millions by designing a small, handlebar mounted bell that sounds like a train horn
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Old 12-16-19, 12:00 PM
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In Memory of Lauren Huddleston

I suggest you read this: https://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-...83145720231210

Whenever I venture out, regardless of mode, I say a little prayer and promise I will do everything I can so that no one gets hurt on my trip.
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Old 12-16-19, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by flangehead View Post
I suggest you read this: https://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-...83145720231210

Whenever I venture out, regardless of mode, I say a little prayer and promise I will do everything I can so that no one gets hurt on my trip.
How very sad. thanks for sharing.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
There was such a case in VA about 5 years ago. I searched a bit but could not find any details on the internet, though I think it was discussed here. My memory is that the cyclist had such an encounter with a jogger, fell, and was injured. The cyclist brought a lawsuit against the jogger and won a judgement.

Disclaimer: My memory is suspect so I would not be surprised if the above scenario went the other way round, i.e. the jogger suing the cyclist. I'll continue to see if I can find some details.
I seem to remember a posting like this. If I'm thinking of the same thing a jogger made a u turn in front of the cyclist causing her to fall and have a serious injury. She sued and won. Predictability trumped audible warning in this case.

It might be this, but not sure.
https://www.joshsilvermanlaw.com/blo...ccident-161409

Of course if you want to avoid injuries and the courts it's best to pass when it is safe and plan for unpredictable behavior.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
plan for unpredictable behavior.
How exactly would one do this?
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Old 12-16-19, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
WI state statutes.
346.803 Riding bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device on bicycle way.
(1)Every person operating a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device upon a bicycle way shall:
346.803(1)(a) (a) Exercise due care and give an audible signal when passing a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device rider or a pedestrian proceeding in the same direction.
(b) Obey each traffic signal or sign facing a roadway which runs parallel and adjacent to a bicycle way.
(2)Every person operating a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device upon a bicycle way open to 2-way traffic shall ride on the right side of the bicycle way.
(3)Every operator of a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device entering a bicycle way shall yield the right-of-way to all bicycles and pedestrians in the bicycle way.
(4)Except as provided in ss. 349.236 (1) (bm) and 349.237, a person may operate an electric personal assistive mobility device, or an electric scooter at a speed not to exceed 15 miles per hour, upon any bicycle path.

The speed limit applies to electric vehicles. There's no way that particular provision can be read to apply to a pedal-only bicycle. Note the difference between (1-3) and (4) in that regard.

Also note that pedestrians are not required by this statute to keep to the right of the path.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tombaatar View Post
How exactly would one do this?
Maybe I didn't state it clearly. If you are passing someone on a path don't assume they will necessarily hold their line (cyclist or pedestrian). Slow down while passing and be prepared to stop if they do a sudden move in your direction.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
Maybe I didn't state it clearly. If you are passing someone on a path don't assume they will necessarily hold their line (cyclist or pedestrian). Slow down while passing and be prepared to stop if they do a sudden move in your direction.
you made your point clearly enough, i just think in general the statement "plan for the unpredictable" is absurd.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tombaatar View Post
you made your point clearly enough, i just think in general the statement "plan for the unpredictable" is absurd.
Goodbye...not in the mood for a head ache.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:44 PM
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My rule for myself is to pass with more clearance as my speed increases. So 14 mph requires lots of space. A cyclist hit my mother in law as she raised her arm. The cyclist wanted to blame her for raising her arm, but come on. People will do what they will do, and you have to prepare for that.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:53 PM
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Just to reiterate. I was not asking for tips on how to avoid getting into an accident with a pedestrian. Nor was my intent to give people the opportunity for sanctimonious judgement of my riding behavior. It was to gain insight into the legal ramifications of such collisions.
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Old 12-16-19, 01:59 PM
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OP needs to change the thread title; replace 'Accidents' with 'Crashes'. I know, much too late. Accidents are fairly rare, where poop just happens and it couldn't have been avoided. Crashes are all too common, where at least one party did something dumb.

The one time I was hit by a car, it was entirely my fault for attempting to make a left turn out of a mall parking lot onto a very busy 4 lane road instead of just going 50 yards to the intersection; I was young and dumb. Good thing the driver was only doing 5 mph.
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