Strong mechanical disk brake?
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Strong mechanical disk brake?
Hello,
To replace a front Shimano Roller Brake to stop a cargo bike (total weight ~150kg/330lbs) in steep descents (~10%), I'm thinking of having the fork replaced so as to install a cable-actuated disk brake. I prefer 100% mechanical brakes to keep things simple and affordable.
What model would you recommend? I read that most are single piston, but models with dual pistons are also available.
Thank you.
To replace a front Shimano Roller Brake to stop a cargo bike (total weight ~150kg/330lbs) in steep descents (~10%), I'm thinking of having the fork replaced so as to install a cable-actuated disk brake. I prefer 100% mechanical brakes to keep things simple and affordable.
What model would you recommend? I read that most are single piston, but models with dual pistons are also available.
Thank you.
Last edited by Winfried; 04-05-23 at 05:38 AM.
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Good mechanical disc brakes are not exactly cheap. Here is a review
of Paul Klampers and Growtac Equal. He also reviews Yokozuna, which is a rebranded Juin Tech hybrid hydraulic brake.
I upgraded from TRP Spyres to Juin Tech R1 and never looked back.
Otherwise the common recommendations are Avid BB7 and TRP Spyre/Spyke.
Also pay attention to whether the levers are short pull or long pull.
If you run flat bars it may be better to just go with some full hydraulic MTB brakes.
Edit: I am a heavy rider myself, probably around 150 kg if with the bike and the gear. TRP Spyres were not good enough for me on steep descents, Juin Tech are good with any pads (stock ones, Shimano organic, metallic).
I upgraded from TRP Spyres to Juin Tech R1 and never looked back.
Otherwise the common recommendations are Avid BB7 and TRP Spyre/Spyke.
Also pay attention to whether the levers are short pull or long pull.
If you run flat bars it may be better to just go with some full hydraulic MTB brakes.
Edit: I am a heavy rider myself, probably around 150 kg if with the bike and the gear. TRP Spyres were not good enough for me on steep descents, Juin Tech are good with any pads (stock ones, Shimano organic, metallic).
Last edited by csport; 04-05-23 at 05:38 AM.
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We touring on a loaded tandem (210kg/460lbs) often on greater than 10% slopes in remote areas. 2 cantilevers and a rear disk. Heat dissipation is the concern. We switched from TRP Spyres to Klampers. The Klampers have no plastic parts and are noticeably stronger when braking. I like the dual pad movement of the Spyres, but that design for mechanical brakes compromises strength. I have disassembled both for cleaning, the Klampers are much easier in that regard.
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I tend toward full mechanical brakes because they're a no-brainer to install and maintain. Otherwise, I might as well go full hydraulic intead of hybrid, provided there's an offer that's solid (no bleeding every so often) while reasonably priced.
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My tour bike is 290 lbs. Front hub is a SA XL-FDD dyno DRUM brake. Set and forget for 30,000 miles in any weather.
Nothing is better or safer. Overheating is a laughable concept. The first tour I had a useless caliper on the back doing 3% at best. LOL.
My Rohloff14 has a cable TRP Spyre with SA levers set to long pull. Stops dead instantly, can't beat that. Resin pads only lasted 5,300 miles, but never squeaked. The gap is of little concern. My dropout is horizontal.
BB7 are dinosaur tech with one piston and 15 mm clunkier. LOL.
Nothing is better or safer. Overheating is a laughable concept. The first tour I had a useless caliper on the back doing 3% at best. LOL.
My Rohloff14 has a cable TRP Spyre with SA levers set to long pull. Stops dead instantly, can't beat that. Resin pads only lasted 5,300 miles, but never squeaked. The gap is of little concern. My dropout is horizontal.
BB7 are dinosaur tech with one piston and 15 mm clunkier. LOL.
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TRP Spykes on my cargo bike and they stop remarkably well. I run 203mm front and 180mm rear rotors. Haven’t had any issues which would decrease my confidence in the brakes so far.
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Hello,
To replace a front Shimano Roller Brake to stop a cargo bike (total weight ~150kg/330lbs) in steep descents (~10%), I'm thinking of having the fork replaced so as to install a cable-actuated disk brake. I prefer 100% mechanical brakes to keep things simple and affordable.
What model would you recommend? I read that most are single piston, but models with dual pistons are also available.
Thank you.
To replace a front Shimano Roller Brake to stop a cargo bike (total weight ~150kg/330lbs) in steep descents (~10%), I'm thinking of having the fork replaced so as to install a cable-actuated disk brake. I prefer 100% mechanical brakes to keep things simple and affordable.
What model would you recommend? I read that most are single piston, but models with dual pistons are also available.
Thank you.
I’m not much of a fan of the Spykes. Not because they don’t work well but the pad adjustment mechanism is very weak and easily damaged. It takes a 3mm allen wrench to adjust it but the adjuster is aluminum and fits too tightly into the caliper body. The socket strips out far too easily. They work well but maintain poorly.
In all honesty, the BB7 is probably the best bag for the buck. Relatively inexpensive…can be found for less than $50 per wheel…, works well, is easy to adjust, and stops just as well as the others.
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Also, hybrid or full hydraulic setup is better for the QR fork in the photo: when the wheel is inserted slightly differently (as it happens with the QR setup), the pads will just extend by a different amount according to the position of the rotor. This is not the case with pure mechanical brakes like TRP Spyres or Avid BB7.
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Also, hybrid or full hydraulic setup is better for the QR fork in the photo: when the wheel is inserted slightly differently (as it happens with the QR setup), the pads will just extend by a different amount according to the position of the rotor. This is not the case with pure mechanical brakes like TRP Spyres or Avid BB7.
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The pads of the mechanical brakes are centered on a fixed position w.r.t. the caliper, and it would need to be changed manually (as cyccommute said, it is a pain with TRP Spyres, I managed to strip an adjuster myself).
The smaller the gap between the pads, the more prominent this problem becomes.
Otherwirse the closed hydraulic system does not adjust for wear either, you need to manually adjust by turning a screw (pushing pistons further). This adjustment changes the gap between the pads to compensate for wear.
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I would not want cable actuated brakes for a cargo bike. I would go Magura MT5s or the TRP equivalent (c 1.2 or something). Longer cable runs lead to less braking performance.
If I absolutely was stuck on cable brakes I would go TRP Spyres or Spykes or Paul Klampers with Jagwire Elite Link Housing kit and the biggest rotors I can fit on the bike ideally a Magura MDR-P (which I would use on the hydro brakes as well) and would still want the hydraulics.
My Hydraulics don't require much maintenance really just the normal replacing pads and rotors when needed which you do on cable stuff and maybe once in a blue moon I might bleed them but in 4k miles I haven't had to do it and probably won't for another 4k miles and maybe another 4k after that too. I think people assume hydraulic brakes are harder to work with because...uhhhh...maybe the very occasional bleeding which a shop can handle quite easily if you don't want to do it and every few years or more is really not much I would likely be wanting to replace cable and housing every year or two years and may have to adjust things in between that.
If I absolutely was stuck on cable brakes I would go TRP Spyres or Spykes or Paul Klampers with Jagwire Elite Link Housing kit and the biggest rotors I can fit on the bike ideally a Magura MDR-P (which I would use on the hydro brakes as well) and would still want the hydraulics.
My Hydraulics don't require much maintenance really just the normal replacing pads and rotors when needed which you do on cable stuff and maybe once in a blue moon I might bleed them but in 4k miles I haven't had to do it and probably won't for another 4k miles and maybe another 4k after that too. I think people assume hydraulic brakes are harder to work with because...uhhhh...maybe the very occasional bleeding which a shop can handle quite easily if you don't want to do it and every few years or more is really not much I would likely be wanting to replace cable and housing every year or two years and may have to adjust things in between that.
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Thanks much for the infos.
If I go full hydraulic, what would be the best compromise in terms of 1) cost, 2) reliability 3) for use with that heavy bike in a hilly area (with the brake only installed in the front, since the rear can only take a Roller Brake)?
If I go full hydraulic, what would be the best compromise in terms of 1) cost, 2) reliability 3) for use with that heavy bike in a hilly area (with the brake only installed in the front, since the rear can only take a Roller Brake)?
Last edited by Winfried; 04-05-23 at 11:53 PM.
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Shimano deore 4 piston are not too expensive and they stop our tandem with a single finger on 20% grade and at about 400 pounds. I do have 203 rotors on it though.
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My Hydraulics don't require much maintenance really just the normal replacing pads and rotors when needed which you do on cable stuff and maybe once in a blue moon I might bleed them but in 4k miles I haven't had to do it and probably won't for another 4k miles and maybe another 4k after that too. I think people assume hydraulic brakes are harder to work with because...uhhhh...maybe the very occasional bleeding which a shop can handle quite easily if you don't want to do it and every few years or more is really not much I would likely be wanting to replace cable and housing every year or two years and may have to adjust things in between that.
Replacement of cable and housing brings up another issue related to hydraulic systems…replacement of housing or adjustment of housing length. If you have cables or housing that is too long or too short, it’s simple to cut new housing to the proper length. If you have hydraulic housing that needs length adjustment, you need something to cut the hose, barbs and olives, something to help install the new barbs, and you have to do a brake bleed. It’s far more complicated and, thus, more difficult. I can, and do, change housing and cable on mechanical brakes all the time. If it takes me 10 minutes to do a whole bike, it’s probably because I’m shooting the breeze with someone in the shop and not paying attention to what I’m doing. It would take me 10 minutes just to set up for a hydraulic housing swap and another hour or two to do the job.
It doesn’t matter if you use and like hydraulics, just don’t try to convince me or others that they are simple to maintain, especially when compared to cable brakes.
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I’m not much of a fan of the Spykes. Not because they don’t work well but the pad adjustment mechanism is very weak and easily damaged. It takes a 3mm allen wrench to adjust it but the adjuster is aluminum and fits too tightly into the caliper body. The socket strips out far too easily. They work well but maintain poorly.
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I found them to be too delicate even with a good wrench. I had an early pair that I couldn’t adjust from the factory because the adjuster was installed too tightly. I contacted TRP and was informed that it was a know issue and they were working on a fix. They are good enough to send me a number of adjusters to fix the problem. I did have a similar problem on a later set that had been on the bike for a while and had seen some winter use. I ended up swapping them for a set of Avid BB7 because of the issue. They are good brakes but the adjuster needs to be steel.
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You might want to look for a fork with a thru axle, there is a reason the standard for disc brakes has moved to thru axle.
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has the roller brake not worked well on 10% down hills?
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At the cost of stating the obvious:
Make sure the fork is strong enough to take a large disc (some forks are weak and will bend noticeably even with a 180 mm large disc).
A larger disc diameter gives you more leverage and greater stopping power with all else being equal.
And I second the Avid BB7 recommendation for the calipers.
Make sure the fork is strong enough to take a large disc (some forks are weak and will bend noticeably even with a 180 mm large disc).
A larger disc diameter gives you more leverage and greater stopping power with all else being equal.
And I second the Avid BB7 recommendation for the calipers.
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Thanks for the tip.
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Larger rotors and TRP spyres
I have TRP Spyres +185mm rotors + Discobreaks Copper pads on my MTB. Took a bit of efforts to install the breaks correctly, making sure they are absolutely in parallel to the rotors was the key for the best performance.
I can easily lock my wheels and skid, not sure if better breaks will stop the bike quicker though.
No issues with the breaks adjusters, all is fine.
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LOL my mind still has not wrapped around pedal assist being more common
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