🤔 Do I actually need to carry a repair kit? 🤔
10-25-20, 06:58 AM
#76
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,501
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2741 Post(s)
Liked 3,388 Times
in
2,051 Posts
Bike tires? Bunch of amateurs.
Likes For dedhed:
10-25-20, 07:07 AM
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
There's your answer.
When I lived in Northwest Indiana my next door neighbor and I used to ride 30 to 50 miles every Saturday morning without a repair kit of any kind and that was before the days of cell phones. I'm typing this from home so obviously we always managed to find a way back. We did have a few interesting adventures along the way but that's just part of the experience..
There have been a lot of threads on this topic through the years. I am amazed at the amount of tools and spares some riders claim to carry with them on every ride. Honestly, if you can handle your own punctures, you are at least 95% covered for mechanical issues on the road. There is a middle road between nothing and carrying a while bike shop with you. When Mrs. Grouch rides by herself, I always make sure she has a properly sized inner tube with her. That way, if she has a puncture, a good Samaritan passer by may be able to help her. Not only are such people out there, but there are a lot of them.
When I lived in Northwest Indiana my next door neighbor and I used to ride 30 to 50 miles every Saturday morning without a repair kit of any kind and that was before the days of cell phones. I'm typing this from home so obviously we always managed to find a way back. We did have a few interesting adventures along the way but that's just part of the experience..
There have been a lot of threads on this topic through the years. I am amazed at the amount of tools and spares some riders claim to carry with them on every ride. Honestly, if you can handle your own punctures, you are at least 95% covered for mechanical issues on the road. There is a middle road between nothing and carrying a while bike shop with you. When Mrs. Grouch rides by herself, I always make sure she has a properly sized inner tube with her. That way, if she has a puncture, a good Samaritan passer by may be able to help her. Not only are such people out there, but there are a lot of them.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Likes For CargoDane:
10-25-20, 07:15 AM
#79
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,501
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2741 Post(s)
Liked 3,388 Times
in
2,051 Posts
10-25-20, 07:19 AM
#80
Junior Member
10-25-20, 07:20 AM
#81
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times
in
222 Posts
BITD when it was a current issue, a couple of my classmates would say ”I don’t need to get a driver’s license b/c all my friends have theirs. There’s always someone who can give me a ride.”
Granted, it works for awhile.
Granted, it works for awhile.
Likes For dabac:
10-25-20, 07:22 AM
#82
Junior Member
But it's expensive. There are other similar multi tools for less money. IMO, a cheap multi tool is all you'll need because it should see infrequent use.
10-25-20, 07:32 AM
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,217
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18398 Post(s)
Liked 15,494 Times
in
7,317 Posts
You’ve been had.
Likes For indyfabz:
10-25-20, 07:41 AM
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: St Cloud Fl.
Posts: 1,945
Bikes: Only my riders left...
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 782 Times
in
389 Posts
I’m in the camp that likes to be prepared for almost any problem...from experience I know what can mechanically happen on a bike ride, short of an being in the “wrong place at the wrong time” scenario...most problems can be avoided by basic maintenance and oversight...
I can almost say that I enjoy fixing flats,view flats as part of bike riding...I am wholly prepared to fix my flat, someone else’s flat...
There a certain amount of satisfaction in being able to answer, “Thanks, I’ve got this...”, when another bicyclist asked if I have a problem...or if I get a “Wow. That was fast.”, after I fix someone else’s flat...or tightened a loosened bolt, or some other problem...
It is very easy to put together a small “bike shop” in a bag designed to carry everything you need for confident bike ride...
I’ve surprised fellow riders with the variety and amount of tools, supplies I have in my “behind the seat bag“,...there is just so many things that can go wrong with a bicycle...I ride a variety of different bikes and the bag is just moved from bike to bike and covers any possible, fixable problem...except crappy bikes that probably couldn’t have been fixed even in the shop!
That’s it! Coffee is gone. Going for a bike ride!
I can almost say that I enjoy fixing flats,view flats as part of bike riding...I am wholly prepared to fix my flat, someone else’s flat...
There a certain amount of satisfaction in being able to answer, “Thanks, I’ve got this...”, when another bicyclist asked if I have a problem...or if I get a “Wow. That was fast.”, after I fix someone else’s flat...or tightened a loosened bolt, or some other problem...
It is very easy to put together a small “bike shop” in a bag designed to carry everything you need for confident bike ride...
I’ve surprised fellow riders with the variety and amount of tools, supplies I have in my “behind the seat bag“,...there is just so many things that can go wrong with a bicycle...I ride a variety of different bikes and the bag is just moved from bike to bike and covers any possible, fixable problem...except crappy bikes that probably couldn’t have been fixed even in the shop!
That’s it! Coffee is gone. Going for a bike ride!
Likes For billnuke1:
10-25-20, 08:03 AM
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 776 Times
in
402 Posts
You just skip over the "you could have easily been prepared to handle the situation yourself" part. Personally, I'm going to get annoyed with someone whose plan A is to waste a bunch of my time because they don't want to bother with a very small amount of preparation. Something unforeseeable or difficult for the person to deal with themselves I'm happy to help, and I might pick up a newbie rider with a flat if they asked me once, but there won't be a second time. It's just too foreseeable and easy to deal with.
But didn’t you just the other day state that you were no longer going to read my posts
Hrmmm...
I didn’t skip over anything btw.
Nice try though
10-25-20, 08:14 AM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 776 Times
in
402 Posts
Maybe we read this in very different ways.
As I read it, @shelbyfv didn't suggest that each of us had to be total and complete experts at every aspect of every field of endeavor in which a human might dabble ... s/he said that people should take care of themselves "when you could have easily been prepared to handle the situation yourself?"
So sure, when I needed heart surgery I called a surgeon. When I needed a certified electrician to install a water heater and a certified inspector to inspect the work, I didn't go to school to learn to be an electrician, get certified, then go to school to get my county code inspector's license.
On another hand, I put gas in my car before I go driving. I don't call my wife to come and rescue me because I simply can't be bothered to fill my own car, or to check the gas gauge.
shelbyfv isn't suggesting we should tow oxy and acetylene tanks and reweld our frames if they break (assuming steel frames, obviously.) S/he is suggesting carrying a spare tube and a couple tire irons and a mini-pump. Inflating this to include asking for Any kind of help, and then attacking the notion that anyone who asks for any kind of help is weak, .... is weak. I guess that might be the "straw giant" fallacy?
I crashed on a downhill run and hurt myself and my bike so badly neither of us could continue. A friend I was riding with, brought his car as close as possible to the trail and I limped/struggles to get out with the bike and my battered/torn/swollen body.
I got run over by a semi-trailer. My leg doubled in size in a few seconds. Someone called an ambulance, and I figured, "Yeah, might as well.)
Otherwise, I have fixed my bike enough to ride, or walked. Some of those walks were pretty long, but some of the time I didn't have anyone to call, and in all cases, I figured I would rather walk than take up someone else's time.
If I were too hurt, or too far from home where walking would take more than a couple hours, I would call---probably an Uber, because my wife works long shifts and odd hours. I haven't had to, but I am not all self-righteous about it. I have been lucky and I know it.
But yeah .... if I neglected Simple, cheap, and easy preparations which caused me to be a burden to others .... that would indeed be a fault and a failing.
Similarly, when people here ask for info, other people google it , and the person complains it wasn't the right info .... but won't google it him/herself. What's wrong with that person? Selfish, willfully ignorant, immature.
Kind of wonder if some people spent way too many years living in mom's basement, having her do the cooking, cleaning, and laundry while they called themselves adults and played video games and complained all day.
I can tell you this .... a few decades ago, a person (particularly male) who could not change a bike tire or change a car tire was considered lacking. It was understood then that adults took care of themselves when they could, and helped each other when it was needed. It was equally understood that people who did not take care of themselves had issues which needed addressing.
People were willing to pitch in and help if someone needed help, because no one would ask unless they really needed it. None of this "I can't be bothered to dress myself, put my clothes on me " stuff.
Society has made a lot of progress in how it treats people (and needs to go a long way further) but in some respects has really declined. The lack of personal responsibility, the search for the easy way out, the infantile dependence on some other person to handle the basic stuff .... it has hurt this nation.
One guy carrying an inner tube or not isn't going to ruin the world or save it. But if people really cannot understand why they should take care of themselves .... well, here we are, and not many people seem to be happy with where we are, and a lot of people seem to be worried about where we are headed.
One poster mentions that if you called for help, you should lay some cash on the person who came. This, to me makes sense. Much better to take care of yourself, but if you cannot, then A.) pay the price so you remember to do better next time and B.) don't act like everyone owes you, and should come rescue you because you foolishly didn't take care of your own business.
The idea that the OP seems to have, that his/her life is more important than everyone else's, is a pernicious failing of morality which is sickening our society. Other people are living their lives, and aren't calling this guy for help when it really shouldn't be needed .... but he has no problem yelling for mommy when he fails to prepare. Yes, I see that as an ethical and moral failure.
Of course, this is probably just a troll thread, designed to keep us typing instead of riding. Whatever.
/rant off
As I read it, @shelbyfv didn't suggest that each of us had to be total and complete experts at every aspect of every field of endeavor in which a human might dabble ... s/he said that people should take care of themselves "when you could have easily been prepared to handle the situation yourself?"
So sure, when I needed heart surgery I called a surgeon. When I needed a certified electrician to install a water heater and a certified inspector to inspect the work, I didn't go to school to learn to be an electrician, get certified, then go to school to get my county code inspector's license.
On another hand, I put gas in my car before I go driving. I don't call my wife to come and rescue me because I simply can't be bothered to fill my own car, or to check the gas gauge.
shelbyfv isn't suggesting we should tow oxy and acetylene tanks and reweld our frames if they break (assuming steel frames, obviously.) S/he is suggesting carrying a spare tube and a couple tire irons and a mini-pump. Inflating this to include asking for Any kind of help, and then attacking the notion that anyone who asks for any kind of help is weak, .... is weak. I guess that might be the "straw giant" fallacy?
I crashed on a downhill run and hurt myself and my bike so badly neither of us could continue. A friend I was riding with, brought his car as close as possible to the trail and I limped/struggles to get out with the bike and my battered/torn/swollen body.
I got run over by a semi-trailer. My leg doubled in size in a few seconds. Someone called an ambulance, and I figured, "Yeah, might as well.)
Otherwise, I have fixed my bike enough to ride, or walked. Some of those walks were pretty long, but some of the time I didn't have anyone to call, and in all cases, I figured I would rather walk than take up someone else's time.
If I were too hurt, or too far from home where walking would take more than a couple hours, I would call---probably an Uber, because my wife works long shifts and odd hours. I haven't had to, but I am not all self-righteous about it. I have been lucky and I know it.
But yeah .... if I neglected Simple, cheap, and easy preparations which caused me to be a burden to others .... that would indeed be a fault and a failing.
Similarly, when people here ask for info, other people google it , and the person complains it wasn't the right info .... but won't google it him/herself. What's wrong with that person? Selfish, willfully ignorant, immature.
Kind of wonder if some people spent way too many years living in mom's basement, having her do the cooking, cleaning, and laundry while they called themselves adults and played video games and complained all day.
I can tell you this .... a few decades ago, a person (particularly male) who could not change a bike tire or change a car tire was considered lacking. It was understood then that adults took care of themselves when they could, and helped each other when it was needed. It was equally understood that people who did not take care of themselves had issues which needed addressing.
People were willing to pitch in and help if someone needed help, because no one would ask unless they really needed it. None of this "I can't be bothered to dress myself, put my clothes on me " stuff.
Society has made a lot of progress in how it treats people (and needs to go a long way further) but in some respects has really declined. The lack of personal responsibility, the search for the easy way out, the infantile dependence on some other person to handle the basic stuff .... it has hurt this nation.
One guy carrying an inner tube or not isn't going to ruin the world or save it. But if people really cannot understand why they should take care of themselves .... well, here we are, and not many people seem to be happy with where we are, and a lot of people seem to be worried about where we are headed.
One poster mentions that if you called for help, you should lay some cash on the person who came. This, to me makes sense. Much better to take care of yourself, but if you cannot, then A.) pay the price so you remember to do better next time and B.) don't act like everyone owes you, and should come rescue you because you foolishly didn't take care of your own business.
The idea that the OP seems to have, that his/her life is more important than everyone else's, is a pernicious failing of morality which is sickening our society. Other people are living their lives, and aren't calling this guy for help when it really shouldn't be needed .... but he has no problem yelling for mommy when he fails to prepare. Yes, I see that as an ethical and moral failure.
Of course, this is probably just a troll thread, designed to keep us typing instead of riding. Whatever.
/rant off
Nobody referenced heart surgery or anything near that.
Shelby made the unfortunate mistake of posting without thinking it through.
My point was quite clearly that damn near everyone asks for help at some time or another when they could clearly have done it themselves.
I specifically referenced computers as I know that is a very common example.
I am not an IT person by trade but well over 20 years ago I became proficient at building and maintaining home computers.
Just a lot of curiosity and trial and error.
Since then I have had countless friends, family, and co-workers come to me for advice and repairs and I was always more than happy to help.
Not once did I arrogantly proclaim to them that re-installing a driver or replacing a computer part is child’s play and they should learn it themselves or be
considered ‘entitled and ethically challeged’ as Shelby so cluelessly put it.
10-25-20, 08:22 AM
#87
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
And with that, I am putting you on my ignore list. I really don't remember you posting anything worth reading since the one funny line about the dangers of black bikes. I think that's about 2years ago. Bye!
Last edited by livedarklions; 10-25-20 at 08:27 AM.
Likes For livedarklions:
10-25-20, 08:37 AM
#88
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 24 Times
in
4 Posts
his/her life is more important than everyone else's, is a pernicious failing of morality which is sickening our society. Other people are living their lives, and aren't calling this guy for help when it really shouldn't be needed .... but he has no problem yelling for mommy when he fails to prepare. Yes, I see that as an ethical and moral failure.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not see asking a question about whether or not I should carry a spare kit an "ethical and moral failure." What is an ethical and moral failure, to me, is to take mean spirited jabs at a newbie who asks a question. Judgement and hate is certainly "sicking our society" right now more than the lack of repair kits ever could.
I've never learned how to change a flat, so it seemed like more of a PITA than it actually might be. I'm also getting the impression that flat tires are more common than I initially expected, even though I've never had one. I'm fairly new to the cycling world. Never heard of "the call of shame," nor have I ever had to make such a call. Big thank you to those that pointed out some potential issues constructively, gave tips, and reassured me that changing a flat wasn't a big deal. I agree that it's probably something I should know how to do. It takes far less time than I thought it did and I have to carry less than I imagined.
Likes For TortoiseAvenger:
10-25-20, 08:42 AM
#89
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,507
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3657 Post(s)
Liked 5,393 Times
in
2,738 Posts
10-25-20, 08:45 AM
#90
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Actually a "smart" person know when to get a professional. Too many will dig a hole, realize they are in trouble and then keep digging.
Likes For GlennR:
10-25-20, 08:47 AM
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
You don't need your own driver's license. One day while I was cleaning out our clothes dryer vent I found driver's licenses with my older son's name and birth day and my younger son's picture.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Likes For Retro Grouch:
10-25-20, 08:57 AM
#93
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
10-25-20, 09:05 AM
#94
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,507
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3657 Post(s)
Liked 5,393 Times
in
2,738 Posts
Because of a routine flat tire? YES! But as I mentioned, your short rides and inability to fix a flat may indicate a physical or other impairment. If that's the case then you have a special need, no cause to be defensive.
Likes For shelbyfv:
10-25-20, 09:33 AM
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 776 Times
in
402 Posts
Are you under the impression that he also has a physical or other impairment?
You directed your insult towards him so it would seem so.
God Bless and may he help you be a better and more understanding person.
I’m praying for you
10-25-20, 09:35 AM
#96
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Wow! Didn't realize me seeking out opinions about a potential strategy would cause such a dumpster fire!
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not see asking a question about whether or not I should carry a spare kit an "ethical and moral failure." What is an ethical and moral failure, to me, is to take mean spirited jabs at a newbie who asks a question. Judgement and hate is certainly "sicking our society" right now more than the lack of repair kits ever could.
I've never learned how to change a flat, so it seemed like more of a PITA than it actually might be. I'm also getting the impression that flat tires are more common than I initially expected, even though I've never had one. I'm fairly new to the cycling world. Never heard of "the call of shame," nor have I ever had to make such a call. Big thank you to those that pointed out some potential issues constructively, gave tips, and reassured me that changing a flat wasn't a big deal. I agree that it's probably something I should know how to do. It takes far less time than I thought it did and I have to carry less than I imagined.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not see asking a question about whether or not I should carry a spare kit an "ethical and moral failure." What is an ethical and moral failure, to me, is to take mean spirited jabs at a newbie who asks a question. Judgement and hate is certainly "sicking our society" right now more than the lack of repair kits ever could.
I've never learned how to change a flat, so it seemed like more of a PITA than it actually might be. I'm also getting the impression that flat tires are more common than I initially expected, even though I've never had one. I'm fairly new to the cycling world. Never heard of "the call of shame," nor have I ever had to make such a call. Big thank you to those that pointed out some potential issues constructively, gave tips, and reassured me that changing a flat wasn't a big deal. I agree that it's probably something I should know how to do. It takes far less time than I thought it did and I have to carry less than I imagined.
Trust me as possibly the worst mechanic in the world, I change a lot of tubes roadside because I ride in excess of 6000 miles per year. If I can do it, it's not hard at all.
Constructive advice-- I don't know if one would fit on your bike, but I've found the big frame pump to be the easiest thing to work with, and since it fits under the top tube, it's probably not using any real estate you'll want to use for anything else. I have a Zefal that works really well. If you want a smaller pump, I recommend the Topeak brand, I carry that on the bike I have that can't accommodate a frame pump. I don't use the CO2 cartridges, so I can't tell you the best set-up for that.
I don't think asking the question was any kind of moral failing, but I do think you should probably be warned that if you choose not to take care of your own roadside flats, the friends and family you're asking to pick you up might share similar opinions and be too polite to tell you.
I wish you well, and hope you're the blessed soul who never has to change a flat.
10-25-20, 09:45 AM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 776 Times
in
402 Posts
Don’t sweat it OP.
Most of the people that replied negatively probably sleep with their bicycle and quite obviously don’t have good friends.
Most of the people that replied negatively probably sleep with their bicycle and quite obviously don’t have good friends.
10-25-20, 09:48 AM
#98
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Likes For GlennR:
10-25-20, 10:07 AM
#100
jj
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 110 Times
in
78 Posts
I'm also getting the impression that flat tires are more common than I initially expected, even though I've never had one. I'm fairly new to the cycling world. Never heard of "the call of shame," nor have I ever had to make such a call. Big thank you to those that pointed out some potential issues constructively, gave tips, and reassured me that changing a flat wasn't a big deal. I agree that it's probably something I should know how to do. It takes far less time than I thought it did and I have to carry less than I imagined.
Swapping a tube is easier than doing the dishes. Patching a tube is a bit more of a pain than clipping your fingernails, but not by much.
Since you already carry a lock, you probably don’t want to be leaving much stuff attached to the bike when it’s locked up? Learning to use a CO2 inflator makes the whole repair kit fit in one small bag and quick to remove/replace at the parking rack (or just to have a permanent home in a backpack pocket). IME, having a cool RoadMorph pump stolen is a bummer. I haven’t had a old style full-size frame pump stolen yet and do leave mine on at some select shopping/eating places.