Daniel4

I'm in agreement with cyccommute. I did what you do once. Luckily it wasn't a busy intersection. I made the driver nervous because he wasn't sure what I was really up to being right beside him. If he wanted to change change lanes, he would have pushed me over.

Oh, I'm sure there'll be talk-backs over this but nowadays, I just line up like all the other cars. And when we finish our turns, I go to the right lane and the car in front of me can do the same without endangering or confusing anybody.

rumrunn6

a little more info. this intersection is unique. they have to move ppl & riders from a paved MUP across this big road, then down about 1/10 mile & back onto the continuing paved MUP, without using a MUP bridge over everything. as for being in front of traffic, I like it. it gives us first priority to get going & everyone sees us & knows where we are. we recently had a woman run over by a cement truck at another busy intersection on the other side of town. every year someone in Boston gets squished by a big truck. I didn't design it so I can't really explain it's features & benefits more, other than, as a user, it works just fine. here's a clip showing a car running the same red light (:44) even tho there is also a flashing strobe on top of the lite because of approaching fire trucks & chief's car? this clip also shows the MUP as we approach the intersection. that was a really long wait due to the fire trucks etc so I stopped the camera. it;s usually a much shorter wait


red line is path of old rail road
green lines show how we cross the intersection now
orange circle is the green box

mr_bill

Again, why do you cycle in counterclockwise circles? (Or anticlockwise circles across the pond. Wait, belay that, clockwise circles across the pond.)

In any event, once upon a time "serious cyclists" would exit at Mill Street and make a left turn onto Mass Ave. However, they made that right turn only.

So "serious cyclists" would abandon the bikeway and take Russel Terrace (sort of) to Mystic, right on Mystic, left on Mass Ave.

See the first picture below.

But before that. NOTE THE RED ARROW. It's no faster to make a left on Mass Ave from Mystic than it is to do the two stage turn, and often it's slower since you can get tangled up in traffic trying to make the RIGHT onto Mystic.

So, pics below:


The people have spoken, the people are not fraidy cats:

BTW, they put sharrows on ALL THREE LANES on Mystic.


None of which has much to do with Dutch style intersections, since you keeping whinging about Danish style intersections.

-mr. bill

cyccommute 

It may work but I'm still not a fan. Your video shows one of the problems I have with the "cross-wait-cross" method of turn, however. Although the bikeway doesn't continue on the side street (Mystic?), what happens to someone who might want to continue onto that street? If they are behind another cyclist, there it the potential that the lead cyclist will stop and turn in front of the through rider. The through rider has to ride around the stopped rider either in front or behind. The picture that genec posted illustrates this as well. People being people, someone is going to stop short in the bike lane to do a left turn and someone is going to plow into them. If 10 people reach that intersection at the same time...a distinct possibility...it's gridlock.

cyccommute 

What are you going on about?

I-Like-To-Bike

There must be something in the water in the Boston area that generates the need to make posts incomprehensible through cryptic references, bizarre formatting and/or OT snark.

mr_bill

First, it’s Pleasant St going forward.

Second, you are absolutely correct. We’ve been stacking people on bikes colliding with each other like cordwood.

(Again, critique OK. Blow it out your....)

-mr. bill

rumrunn6

the whole megillah, opening to opening. I've experimented with getting onto Mystic (but inserting yourself into that traffic to get into the left lane is not wise) & also what this couple does at the pedestrian corner on the other side. neither works as well as the green box. Jim those pics of the box crowded w/ cyclists was hysterical. it would have been interesting to watch them file off into the bike lane


I've also said "scr*w it" & just bailed left on the wrong side of the road in front of the cop. it only worked cuz very few ppl were on the road for the start of this snow storm. but this worked quite well w no traffic. however this intersection is not known for no traffic


coming back yesterday the bike lane was crowded & a cpl guys were going straight so they broke off

rumrunn6

not sure how I wold handle going straight (instead of turning left) but I would plow into anyone. I might pause at the other side to wait for a break before getting on that roadway

cyccommute 

I’m not from there and I’ve never bicycled there. The pictures posted have not had any reference to street name changes. Rather than get all huffy about it, you could just politely detail the name change.

Well I guess you just want to get all huffy about it. Nothing illustrates your point like hurling insults.

cyccommute 

Just to be clear, the intersection you are detailing isn’t like the ones genec was showing. You are coming off a bike path that is at an angle to the intersection. There doesn’t appear to be a way to get on to Mystic that wouldn’t involve crossing in front of traffic to do so. The situation would still be problematic if someone were continuing on to Pleasant Street as mr_bill so helpfully and politely pointed out. Cyclists turning left are going to turn slightly to line up with the left turn and could turn in front of a cyclist continuing onto Pleasant St. The possibility of a collision does exist.

Now take that picture of all the people lined up for a left turn and put that line of people on genec’s route. If I recall correctly...I’ve been to Seattle and been in the region of Second and Pike...there is a fair about of both bicycle and pedestrian traffic on those streets. If a line of cyclists were riding on Pike, for example, and someone in the middle decided to turn left on 2nd, the natural inclination is to come to a stop and turn so that they can set up for the left turn. Someone further back in the line might not know (or see) what happened and could run into the stopped cyclist. It’s not a good design for either safety or utility. In another discussion, I quoted someone who said you should trade one problem for another problem.

Looking at genec’s picture again, I wouldn’t use that bikeway anyway...at least not traveling the way the cyclist in the picture is traveling. Like our stupid 15th Street protected lane, it is on the wrong side of a one-way street. Riding so that you could use these stupid “boxes” would mean riding contra-flow to traffic and I just won’t do that.

It also presents another problem for using the boxes in the picture, a left turning cyclist would have to turn right (across the path of a cyclist traveling with traffic) to get into the box to wait for the light. Most people are just going to stop and turn their bikes to the left and wait for the light. They are likely to be just waiting in the crosswalk which, again, presents the possibility for collision.

brooksmurphyt

I love this idea!