mstateglfr 

So this is a very interesting, complex, and therefore difficult issue to resolve. It isnt a retailer specific issue, its a societal issue. With that said, each individual company regardless of size can help alleviate the problem as much as reasonably possible.
And now with that said, I had a mix of emotions reading this article. Sympathy, absurdity, confusion, and more.

I have not been in the position of facing imminent homelessness. I have been a poor college student and lived paycheck to paycheck after college like many others. So its tough to identify with some of the employee's concerns while others are easier to align with.
...then there are some that are just funny to me and I have no sympathy.


- First off, having 2 employees speak whose names are Ash and Alpine is just too REI cliche. Come on, thats funny!

- I agree that REI is viewed as a 'fair wage' employer by members and that most members would like it to be such an employer. The co-op certainly charges enough money for their products for most to think its a 'fair wage' employer.

“Due to local rents doubling in only five years time I suffered extreme hardship while working my job at REI,” she said. “In January, my family was homeless with a baby. Being unexpectedly displaced has been difficult for my family.”
- Local rents doubling in half a decade isnt REI's fault. And its unreasonable to expect a retailer to keep up with such inflation. It should be a goal for REI to pay rates which allow its employees to live near-ish to work. 'Near-ish' means sorta close as in 15-20mi or so? No defined distance or time. But you cant expect all retailers to pay wages which allow employees to live very close to their work across the country. Thatd be absurd and unsustainable.

“We have homeless and starving staff at the REI store in Seattle,” Kennedy said. “I’ve witnessed staff eating expired foods, I’ve witnessed people distressed over their food situation — many using credit cards to buy food. It’s time to do the right thing by these dedicated employees.”
- Extremely unfortunate if 100% accurate and its due solely to low wages and not lifestyle spending. I quoted this only because the complaint that credit cards being used to buy food is hardly something that should be mentioned. Thats done all over the country.

The company is currently planning to develop a campus in Bellevue over the coming years.
- Well that certainly wont make it any more affordable to live near work!

Employees want a better, more stable, scheduling system, more hours and better pay.
- Pretty reasonable. Not sure if its possible, but its reasonable. Thing is, retail employs people who often times want flexibility in their schedule. Tough to balance stability with flexibility.

Someone who has experienced such hardship is Ash Crew, an employee of REI since 2012, and a college student.

“Despite my dedication, my loyalty and my optimism for the co-op, I’ve been forced into chronic homelessness and living out of my car for over a year while I was juggling school and a second job,” Crew said.

“Something almost everyone in Seattle is aware of is that rent has doubled since 2013,” she said. “While living out of my car, I experienced traumatizing events due the vulnerable position of being homeless. These events catalyzed me into quitting school and getting a second job. In January 2016, I finally got back into school. But I could only get seven to 14 hours a week at REI with 30 per week availability. I was then forced to cash out my vacation time to get by.”
- The balance of work and college is something that is extremely difficult. Were there no other retailers offering employment for more than 7-14 hours per week in the Seattle area though? I have no idea, but it would surprise me if that was the case. If Ash was to go from 7-14 hours per week to working her max 30, wouldnt that mean a reduction in someone else's hours? Or even the reduction of 2 other employee's hours. Rough unintended consequence to put on REI's shoulders for blame.




Certainly no easy answer to all this. What I learned from that article is something Ive known for a long time due to family in Bellevue- The Seattle area is expensive and hourly retail employees will never get rich working in that area.

fietsbob

Well unlike a Worker owned and self managed Co Op, REI has executives with much more 'compensation' than the Working stiffs ,

so It's become More a Corporate structure with a Consumption Rebate for Shoppers based on what they Buy.



...

FrenchFit 

I lived there for three years, the value of my house about doubled in that time. You'd would think I made some money, but I moved back to a California house...which more than doubled.

Yeah, the backdrop to the conversation is many of REI employees want to be in it for a long-term, primary job; but managers and above are the ones compensated to be career employees, not the green vests. If REI were to compensate all of its retail employees as lifers, I doubt it could survive as we currently know it. Five or six warehouse stores, and 90% of its business on-line - perhaps, but 12,000 employees and 140 plush stores? No chance.

CliffordK

It looks like at least some of the Novara bottle cages got axed too

https://www.rei.com/product/746416/n...er-bottle-cage

I got a pair. I liked it, although I managed to lose one button on each cage.

And, the cage mount will work on my C&V bikes, unlike some of the other Stainless models available.

So, time to snag a couple more... and they're GONE

I'll probably have to move the Novara cages to a different bike.

jefnvk

Any news on what will actually be offered yet? Seems silly to me that they would wait until Spring to at least announce what they are bringing out.

I liked the single button ones, by far my favorite cage. Tried to snag some more when I realized they were going away, but no luck either

Rent costs are not in REIs control, and unfortunately for retail employees in high-rent areas, enough people aren't going to pay more for local shopping in an internet enabled world.

I'm 210#, and without any effort I can think of numerous people I personally know who make me look small. While you may personally shoot for 25# of gear, doesn't mean everyone does. That said, I'd probably ignore the weight limit without concern.

pdlamb

They didn't have the weight limit when I bought my Randonee, or when REI replaced it with a new one. I've cheerfully violated the limit for years. But it's something that would make me wonder if I were buying one now.


I'd wonder, is it unengineered, so it might break if I put another half pound of cheese on it? Or won't it hold up to a stretch of bumpy dirt road, and I'll get stranded in the middle of nowhere? Then I'd look at Surly - the LHT doesn't have a weight limit? Oh, but it might break if I put a kickstand on. Who else makes touring bikes? Trek or Fuji? Forget those fragile frames and go look at something that'll stand up to my riding!

fietsbob

Thought the OP bought one, So why are they worries that they may have been discontinues since ?

All the Parts attached to the frame are Normal Bike Parts..

dont Crash It and it will last until they're bored and want something else.

tyrion

I bet it's heavily into the "adventure bike" theme, which seems to be the hot trend and it fits nicely with their brand.



https://www.rei.com/h/co-op-cycles

First Look: REI CO?OP Cycles - Bike Hugger

GerryinHouston

The 2016 Randonee has a 250 lbs limit. I asked the tech about it and he is still laughing...

I am barely north of 250 and yesterday I checked the wheels for tension and trueness after 2000 mi. True to less than .5 mm and the tensions were similar to the ones the tech set when I insisted that he ups the tensions on the wheels when I bought it.

The Randonee is built like a tank! A 26 lbs tank...

Darth Lefty 

Yeah, based on their ad copy so far it's going to be gravel bikes and plus tire trail bikes. I'm sure they'll keep serving the recreation market and keep the carbon for flagship models.

AdvXtrm

Heads up for anyone interested. I have a 2016 Novara - Safari, and I love the bike. I was just visiting the REI page to double check some specs on it, and I was surprised to find they have the size medium available for purchase right now, and for only $713.83. I don't think you can get a bike anywhere near this good and well equipped for anywhere near that price.
Novara Safari Bike - 2016

FrankHudson

There are lots of good bikes out there even if the Safari is discontinued, but I sure like mine. I use my Safari as a pack horse when shopping and it handles loads well in excess of the 250 pound limit regularly for me--as me, a full water bottle and a gallon of milk are probably near that limit. Lots of rides too where it's unloaded, but the bigger tires and stouter wheels make the urban road irregularities easier to ride over at my Clyde weight. Nice on gravel as well, and comfy on longish rides.

If my Safari was wrecked or stolen I'd probably be looking at LHT or the like if REI doesn't have a comparable model going forward because I'm sold on bigger tires for all-round riding use. I also built up an older Randonee for my wife but she's never been able to come to terms with drop bars.

fietsbob

Maybe the loaded Touring Bike market, is too small to pursue, for the Product managers , eyeing sales figures .

They sell Surly (so do any shop with a QBP account) so maybe that will have to do.

we shall see in the spring, what the line up fills out to.

brady.gross

I have been saving up all Fall and Winter for a Trek 520 with all my intentions of purchasing one in the next month or two.

I saw this deal above on REI.com yesterday and about fell over. I hadn't considered this bike at all or even knew it existed really. So of course I hopped on Google and these forums to start doing ALL the research.

$713.83 vs $1,359.99 for the Trek was just too big of a difference to not consider a change of thought even though I have been drooling over the Trek for months. (I also live in Fairbanks, AK - and my LBS is a Trek dealer so that is why I originally fell that direction just FYI)

Anyways, I stopped by REI today and they had an XL Safari that I could at least look at so I could take a look at least at the components and such regardless of size.

I walked away, worried about a few things:
-Getting used to trekking bars since I have never used them before..
-Fit, since I can't test ride beforehand..

But, I confirmed REI's return policy, even with clearance items like this and that put my worries about fit to rest. Worst case scenario, it doesn't fit or I don't like it - I return it and lose out on the $75 shipping charge...

The trekking bars - I'm willing to take the chance and try em. If I don't like em, I'll switch it out to something else with the full knowledge that it might take some work to get it the way I want.. still cheaper and worth the savings overall.

The REI employee thought REI's online site was mistaken and didn't think there were any left... WELL I think he was wrong because I just pulled the trigger and the order went through without a hitch!

A Novara Safari 2016 in medium is on it's way! I read through a lot of your posts @AdvXtrm about the Safari, and I think some of the hiccups or upgrades that the bike may need, are still well worth the $700 price tag.

I'll probably be coming back to ask you some more questions as I do some of the same adjustments you have done!

Cheers and Happy New Year all!

brady.gross

The deal is still alive! I just pulled the trigger and got one myself. I'll be referencing lots of your post I'm sure to make some of the same adjustments you've done to you Safari over the last few months.

I have been saving up for a Trek 520 all Fall and was ready to pull the trigger in February, but this was too good to pass up. $715 vs $1350 for the Trek.

I'm obviously a little worried about fit, but a Medium looks to be as close to a 54cm sizing I would be looking at with the Trek. If all else fails and it just isn't working, I can return to my local REI store here no problem. (I confirmed twice actually)

Anyways! Super excited!

Cheers and Happy New Year!

AdvXtrm

I have no regrets on buying this bike whatsoever. I absolutely love it. This thing is built very tough. As with any bike, some adjustments and changes may be necessary to fit your specific body and needs. The 520 was also a bike I had as one of my top choices, but in the end I liked the geometry and overall build of the Safari better, and the huge money savings was just icing on the cake.

I've come to find that I much prefer the trekking bars over drops. I find them to be much more comfortable and usable overall. I've raised the bars, and I've lowered the gearing considerably. I've added a front rack, panniers, a trunk bag, a more conformable seat, and a fantastic suspension seat-post. These things have made the bike far more comfortable and capable for me. If you have any questions I can help you with please let me know. Please post back once you've had the bike for a while and had a chance to give a good ride.

FrankHudson

When you say you raised the bars, what did you do? What suspension seat post did you use?

AdvXtrm

I'm using this stem-riser, and it's been perfect. The stock bars are fantastic, and I have absolutely no desire to change them out for anything else.

Origin8 - X-Tra Lift Stem Riser

This is the suspension seat-post I have, and it works far better than I would have ever expected. I was very skeptical, and was concerned that it may be more of a gimmick than something really great, but I was wrong; it's fantastic!

Suntour - NCX P12 Suspension Seat-post

brady.gross

Wow thanks for posting these product links and photos. I'm definitely into checking these out too.

I think I also have been very skeptical about suspension seat posts as well. Cool to hear a good experience. I'll have to put some more research into them.

CliffordK

Well, looking at the REI website.

Very few Novara bikes up there now.
No new COOP bikes

This new Diamondback Haanjo looks interesting. $1899
https://www.rei.com/product/108760/d...rbon-bike-2017

3 x 9?
Bar End shifters?
I'm seeing notes saying 21 lbs without pedals. It appears to have rack mounts. Hopefully strong enough to actually be used.

DiamondbackHaanjo-1.jpg

AdvXtrm

I don't like carbon bikes myself. Steel is my material of choice, but to each their own.

From what I've seen, the new Co-Op line may be showing up this coming spring, but if not, I doubt we will see them any later than early summer. I'm really glad I got the deal I did on my Novara - Safari. I'll have no need for another bike for the foreseeable future, if ever.

FrankHudson

Thanks! I'm thinking about trying a suspension seat-post again next summer on my Safari.

tyrion

Yeah I don't get that "Shimano XT M772 Shadow, 9 Speed" - is this a current model? Is Shimano going back to 9 speed for some applications to allow for a beefier chain?

CliffordK

There has been a lot of debate about brifters vs bar end shifters for touring bikes, but that is an interesting choice too.

But, the TT market is driving continued support of bar end shifters up to 10s & 11s (sometimes with funky shapes).

Shimano claims their 10s and 11s chains are just as strong as the 9s chains. So far, I've broken a couple of greymarket HG73 chains, but never a 6800/HG700 chain (fewer miles, and easier riding). But, I suppose there is a first time for everything.

One issue is that one may be able to re-use chain pins in the HG73 style chains, but perhaps not with HG700, so it may be easier to recover on the trail from a broken chain with 9s.

However, I assume it is all about pricing, and they've made sacrifices to keep the bikes under $2K.

Some riders have also been slow to accept 1x and 2x gearing. So, it may be easier to market 3x9 than 1x11 or 2x10.

tyrion

I would have guessed these days it's easier to find 10-speed parts than 9-speed parts.