rEVOLVED

Hey, guys! I'm currently rocking my 57 Pista that I think is a size too small for me as my only functioning bike. Hoping to upgrade soon. I've had my eyes set on the new Wabi Road, but am now considering the All-City Nature Boy. I love that the Nature Boy can accommodate much larger tires, but I also haven't ridden enough to know my ideal tire size. I am planning to stick mostly to the local bike paths, but would definitely hop in the occasional gravel if I was rocking 32s or 38s.

I plan to stay fixed, and it seems that most CX bikes are sold as single speeds. Pardon my ignorance, but is it a lot of work to get a lockring and cog on in place of the freewheel? Does anyone besides Zach Gallardo ride a Nature Boy (or other CX) in the city? The geometry of the Nature Boy also seems more relaxed than the Wabi, which might be a good thing.

I've ruled out the steamroller due to aesthetic reasons that shouldn't matter but do, and I'm basically down to the Wabi or Nature Boy. I think the Big Block is too much of a track geo from what I've read. Thanks in advance for the feedback!

HTupolev

The hub won't have any reverse threading for the lockring. You'd have to basically get a new rear wheel.

IAmSam

I think you just need to research and learn more about hubs and the Nature Boy...



1st of all this statement is not correct - most cyclocross bikes are multi-geared

But to your real question - when one is talking about a Nature Boy nowadays you almost have to state specifically whether it is the old-style canti brake version or a newer disc model. The original came with came a fixed/free flip-flop hub so you have no reason to worry whether it takes a fixed cog or how to put one with its lockring on. I can't state for certain whether the disc NB's rear hub has a fixed side or not - but at the very least, if you can live with only a front brake, then you can just bolt a disc cog on it and off you go

Good luck...

rEVOLVED

That makes sense. But if I found a Nature Boy frame, it would definitely have horizontal dropouts, and I could build from there. I'm mostly wondering now how the geometry on a CX bike (specifically a Nature Boy) is for mostly road riding. It seems like it would be a bit more relaxed, and I like the idea of extra tire clearance.

ThermionicScott 

The geometry of the Nature Boy doesn't strike me as particularly "relaxed", just normal road bike angles.

Carcosa

You'll be fine on the road with CX geometry. I ride my NB everywhere, love it and plan on making it fixed soon. One of my good friends rides his NB as a fixed commuter as well.

Either will do the job well, especially if you decide to build from a frame up. Personally I'd go NB for the option to run bigger tires and race CX but I'm obviously biased.

fixedweasel

Yup, the geometry on that bike is quite fine for the road. And yes, you can place a fixed cog on a SS/threaded hub albeit with care. I posted this in another thread a while back when someone asked if it could be done on a re-used/purposed rear wheel off a conversion and other folks with no experience with it at all stated death would occur...................

"You most definitely can. Application is KEY though. If you're Jonny from Jonny Cycles and can rip a skid over 200 feet then I wouldn't recommend it. But for every day use, without abuse, it's ok. I have built many many conversions over the years spinning on a fixed cog without concern. Mind, I clean/degrease/alcohol/acetone the threads of both* very well, use Red Loc-Tite and either Rotafix or use a very long handle(d) chainwhip for torque.** If folks tell you it can't be done safely they are dead wrong. I have been working on bikes for over 15 years and have too much experience with this particular area to give you false/poor advice. I have had grocery bikes, commuters, fixed MTN bikes, fixed trainers, etc. all with spun on fixed cogs and never had a problem. The first one that ever broke loose was one that my 200 pound skidding brother cracked free after over 2 years of hard use/abuse. BTW, when we race up at the track, you can take a gander and see how many of the P/1/2's have lockrings on our rear wheels. You'd be surprised at the lack of them. In over 12 years of racing, I've never seen a problem. Money is hard to come by these days. If you just want to tool around fixed on a conversion, save some green, reuse the hub and buy your Mom/Dad/Dog/Cat/Iguana/Girlfriend/Boyfriend/Spiritual Advisor/Grandma*** a nice Holiday gift.

Just a note: I am not recommending to not use a lock ring. I use lock rings whenever possible. His question was CAN it be done. And yes, in certain situations not only can it be done, it can be done safely."




*hub and cog
**with proper pipe strength of course
***grandpa's have a tendency to hoard, so pass that one up

veganbikes

Oh lord not the just be hamfisted and don't use a lockring argument again. "I am not saying you shouldn't use a lockring but using loctite and just being hamfisted is way cool and super safe and stuff"

Use a lockring people, bad ideas are always bad! Yes you can possibly save a small amount of money doing the above but if things fail, it probably won't be a good savings and could be quite catastrophic. You might get lucky and it works as it has above but it isn't worth trying.

fixedweasel

Vegan, you obviously have no experience with this but sure have a strong opinion. That's a bit insulting to say a mechanic is "hamfisted" when you have not a single clue of their experience or mechanical ability. Better start using your melon/cappy before you start throwing around information that you know nothing about. It makes one look foolish to say the least. How many bikes have you tried the method above on? None? Interesting, yet you give an opinion to someone with not a hair of knowledge or experience in the area you are spouting off about. This Forum is about sharing ideas and information that can work for others. Whether to save time or money or frustration. Folks are looking for information from others who have knowledge and experience in the area that they are asking the question in. If you've never tried the technique above on the specific bikes mentioned above, then maybe you should pass on the hot air.


I would've passed on this response but the "just being hamfisted is way cool and super safe and stuff" insult was just a bit much. Grow up.

veganbikes

It is being hamfisted, you even mentioned pulling out a leverage pipe. If you have to apply a ton of pressure to something that usually means you are going beyond the recommended torque and as we call it in the industry being hamfisted.

I am not going to try something that is a poor idea, I don't need to touch a hot stove to know that touching hot stoves is a bad idea. They make fixed hubs with lockrings for a good reason so you don't have to overtorque and use red loctite and hope for the best. The only reason I might even consider doing it is if I had to ride that bike and there is absolutely no way I could get the proper wheel or a lockring or whatever parts needed and there was no other options but I don't live in that world and don't see any need to.

I don't want to give someone a bad idea and tell them it is good. Some poor kid might try your method and get hurt because they decided doing things right is wrong. I see enough fixed gear kids coming in the shop doing really dumb things I am not going to give them more ideas.

If you haven't gathered yet I work in a shop and have been working in bike shops for a number of years now and have many friends in the industry so I am not some random person without knowledge just spouting off. I could ask any of the 30+ year professional mechanics (one of my current colleagues has been in it since birth as his father owns a chain of shops) I have worked with if the idea is a good one and I can guarantee you 100% they would all say no. I could probably go into most any bike shop and ask them is that a good idea and they would say no as well.

I am glad it worked for you and I am glad you aren't hurt, you are lucky my friend. I will apologize for boiling down your argument to "just being hamfisted is way cool and super safe and stuff", I could have been more professional with my response. However it is still not an idea I would tell someone else. Always use the proper equipment especially if it is coming down to safety.

ThermionicScott 

Not really. The stock market is at record highs and unemployment is at record lows. And it takes all of $15 to buy a hub with the right threading for a cog and lockring. No, the only reason to do the Loctite and rota-fix hack is because you want to.

That a lockring is less necessary on a track isn't relevant to this thread.

fixedweasel

I hear you. And if you read the initial thread/response, I always advocate for a true fixed hub. That response was to someone who asked IF it could be done. And if you are riding a grocery/errand bike/commuter in the city or not abusing the bike, you can do it safely. I just have seen it too many times on my own builds. I never suggested a breaker bar/leverage pipe or extension but a long handled whip or Rotafix. I don't go by "ideas", I go by my own real world experience and years and years of knowledge. And until one of those mechanics has actually done this technique or has any experience with it whatsoever, their "idea" is like a puff in the wind. I too have been in a bike shop for over 15 years and know many other great mechanics. Hell, my Brother was Robbie Ventura's (USPS) personal mechanic when he worked at the TREK Store here. I also work on our cars, HVAC, do electrical, plumbing, carpentry (both frame and finish), tile, drywall, weld, and even have forged since my Father in Law was a Blacksmith. I have been doing the former for over 40 years and have completely rehabbed three of my own properties solo. I think I know what hamfisted means and I think I know my way around just about any tool with confidence.


Again, don't accuse someone who has more experience in this specific area, as well as many other areas, as being hamfisted.* I understand and respect your concern for safety but we should always keep an open mind to things we have not experienced before. Also, I completely understand what you are saying about a fixed hub, and again, I agree, that a fixed hub should be used whenever humanly and financially possible. Thanks for the banter back and forth. I wish you well with all you do. Ride safe and strong.





*or whatever they call it in the "industry"

fixedweasel

Yes, the Market has been on an upswing for many years. Yes, it's easy for me to make money in the Market because I have it. Record low unemployment is irrelevant when a great chunk of the jobs pay minimum wage with no health insurance and folks cannot survive off of that. My son has a degree and cannot get a job in his field. He makes minimum wage and had to move back home. If he tried to live on his own he could not afford a rear fixed wheel.* It's nice to know that you have money and no empathy for those who are seriously struggling. Believe it or not, there are really people out there that cannot afford things. I know, crazy, right?



*because you cannot just buy a $15 hub, you actually need a rim and spokes too

neamatoad

the only 'safe' way to mount a fixed cog onto a freewheel hub involves a welder.

Unkle Rico

Not having a lock ring is like not having PB in a PB&J sammy. Just a bad idea.

ThermionicScott 

I'm sympathetic to people who are struggling, some are indeed in difficult spots. But wanting a "sweet fixie" is definitely a first-world problem.

motrheadsroadie

spends like, a grand on a bike.








immediately puts a suicide hub on it.

Carcosa

One guys spouts a coworker's career working on bikes since birth to back up his argument and then the other guy comes back to say no, I'm right because I'm part blacksmith.

LOL guys.

Things we have learned in this thread:

- Unemployment is low and the stock market is doing well.
- Unemployment figures and the stock market do not necessarily mean the lowest of wage earners are doing well.
- Lock rings are a good idea.
- People may have ridden fixed gear bikes without lock rings at some point in time.
- CX bikes work fine on the road.
- PB&J sammies, void of the P and B are just J sammies.
- Nature Boys come in canti and disc.
- Some people here work in bike shops.
- Other people here worked in bike shops previously but are now very handy around the house.
- People know other people that do bike fixing well.

veganbikes

Here here, well spoken, Bruce!

Broctoon

Excellent summary, Carcosa.

All I have to add is this: "Hamfisted" seems like such a 1950s term. In my 20+ years working on airplanes, we always called someone who applies too much torque "Magilla Gorilla."