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Trouble seating tire bead

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Trouble seating tire bead

Old 06-18-21, 09:05 AM
  #1  
md2
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Trouble seating tire bead

I have a (borrowed) pair of "vintage" 26" Araya CV-7 rims and Schwalbe Marathon 1.5" tires. The rims are marked 1.5" width, and (measured with calipers) are about 18.5mm in inner rim-to-rim width. (Per Sheldon Brown's tire sizing guide, these tires should be slightly on the wide side for these rims, if I read the chart correctly.

My problem is that I am having great difficulty getting the bead on the tire to sit properly all the way out on the rim; it seems every time I mount the tire there's some part that's stuck a bit too far inside the rim. (As a new user, I'm unfortunately not allowed to post a photo...)

I'm aware that this is a somewhat common problem, and I have tried the usual tricks one reads about online—carefully massaging around the tire, overinflating, using windex or Schwalbe's lubricant to try to get it to seat properly. I've improved the situation, but not fully fixed it.

I took it to the bike shop, and the fellow there just told me to spend a lot of time massaging the tire (and gave me a free bottle of Schwalbe's lube). He himself spent a few minutes with the air compressor trying to get it to sit right and was unable to. (I could drop it with him until it's fixed, but in the future, what will I do if I have to patch a tube?)

As an aside, when I rotate the tire on the rim, the stuck-ness does not stay at the same point on the rim, so I do not believe it's something wrong with the rim. It may stay at the same point in the tire, but this occurs with both tires, so I do not believe it's a defect. (I speculate that it may be that the rim tape is to blame, as mentioned on Sheldon Brown's page on wheelbuilding...)

I have two questions.

1. Any tips on how to properly seat the tire?
2. More critically: I've gotten this to the point where it's close enough that the ride is fine. (At more extreme off-ness, the ride is lumpy.) Is riding on this a safety risk? My sense is no; if the bead were outside the tire there'd be a risk of a blow-out, but with it stuck farther in, I think it should be...fine? Right?

(Yes, I am at the point in my life where I'm asking random people on the Internet for safety advice. Why not?)
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Old 06-18-21, 09:17 AM
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I have always powdered tube and tire with baby powder. It seems to let everything slide into place nicely. It's been a long time, but in the past I have used some very soapy water to help keep rubber from sticking to the rim. But even just plain water might be enough.

Inflate and deflate multiple times. Fill the tire partially and then push with your thumbs the sidewall not just in the area that's sitting too low, but the entire sidewall on that side. It's the parts that are ever so slightly too high that are keeping that low part low.

I have at times inflated the tire over the max psi to pop the beads into place. But I've also blown tires off the rims and wasted a new tube doing that too. Don't let your hand be on the part of the tire that blows off the rim. It hurts!

I have had some tires that I never could seat properly. But they were on old vintage 27" rims (630 bsd).

Last edited by Iride01; 06-18-21 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 06-18-21, 03:32 PM
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Not all 26" tires & rims have the same diameter/circumference measurements. Read this and measure yours. 26 Inch Bicycle Tires (sheldonbrown.com)
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Old 06-18-21, 03:44 PM
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People fitting tires to cars and trucks use water with detergent in it, so it slides easier.
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Old 06-18-21, 04:05 PM
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I assume that shop didn't have a set of seating pliers? Or if they did they didn't use them, or you didn't see them use them?

Both Park and Bicycle Research have made them and they really help with tight seating tires. I'll agree with dish soap and also there's actual bear seat lube (or once was in the auto world). Overinflation, pliers and lube usually work for us.

Except the slight flat "hump" you feel when riding a tire that's not fully seated, AND the bead is too deep relative to the rim, should have no real safety concerns. It's when the poorly seated tire has a bulge or high spot that is a no no. Andy
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Old 06-18-21, 04:11 PM
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The stated max pressure on the tire is half of what it's been tested to. Along with lubing the tire/rim with detergent, I'd try over-inflating it to one and a half times the spec'd max pressure to get it seated. (Lower the pressure if/after you get it seated.)
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Old 06-21-21, 11:13 AM
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Whoops. I didn't realize I wasn't getting emails for all these replies. Sorry for the slow reply!

I became somewhat convinced from Sheldon's site that the problem is rim tape up on the bead seat. I'm not sure this is the real problem—the tape was on the bead seat, as in the photo on Sheldon's page on wheelbuilding—but the seat is fairly wide and I'm not sure this would really prevent the bead from going fully in. Nonetheless, I bought some new rim tape that I cut closer to fit into the bottom of the rim, and the wheel seems a bit better. But not perfect. 🤷

@tyrion: Yeah, my bike guy tried with a compressor and overinflated a good bit. It's certainly a fair suggestion—but (along with lubing and massaging) it doesn't seem to be sufficient. Nonetheless, if I get around to it I might pop back to the bike shop to inflate a bit more. Your comment on stated max pressure gives me some reassurance.

@Andrew: No, they did not use seating pliers. Regarding lube, I've been using both windex and the Schwalbe tire lube that's made for this. In any case, I don't see any exposed bead, so (as you noted) I think this is basically safe. Thanks for the reassurance.

@Crankycrank: I'm pretty sure the rims are 559mm, since they're marked as 1.5" and were presumably original equipment on this '80s mountain bike. This should match the tires. I will check, though, because now you've given me pause!

Thanks for the replies!
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Old 06-21-21, 02:19 PM
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Have you tried inflating in small increments, say 10psi, and massaging into position before adding more air. It's more of what you would do if the bead was coming off the rim, but still worth a try.
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Old 06-22-21, 12:11 AM
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My question is how important are these tires on those wheels for you? If they are the original tires from the 1980s, might it be time to hang them up?
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Old 06-22-21, 03:31 AM
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@Geepig: Hah, no, these are nearly new Schwalbe Marathons. I did try an old pair of Schwalbe 2.0"—same problem.

@moe: That seems to help. My working technique is to massage the tire in where it's a bit farther out, and massage the slack around to where it's too far in. I've managed, with this technique, to get it fairly even all around the bead, and ridable, so I'm happy, I think.

I wouldn't say the problem is solved. With road tires, I routinely seat them and they're pretty symmetrical. Maybe I'm just not used to how much play exists in fatter tires?

But I can ride, so hey.
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Old 06-22-21, 03:51 AM
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This thread reminds me that most flat repairs can be fixed fairly quickly in less than 10 minutes while others can take much longer.
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Old 06-22-21, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by md2
@Geepig: Hah, no, these are nearly new Schwalbe Marathons. I did try an old pair of Schwalbe 2.0"—same problem.

@moe: That seems to help. My working technique is to massage the tire in where it's a bit farther out, and massage the slack around to where it's too far in. I've managed, with this technique, to get it fairly even all around the bead, and ridable, so I'm happy, I think.

I wouldn't say the problem is solved. With road tires, I routinely seat them and they're pretty symmetrical. Maybe I'm just not used to how much play exists in fatter tires?

But I can ride, so hey.
Like others have stated, just massage it into place. For what its worth, I just installed a new set of Schwalbe Landcruisers, and noticed that the reflective strip isnt exactly straight and true, so its theoretically possible that your tire isnt straight and true. Bets thing would be to get it close and ride it. Eventually the bead will settle into where its at its best. What I have done in the past is to mount the tire, but leave it with a much lower pressure, and ride it around the yard a bit until it all gets symmetrical. Once you have it in place, its almost always going to return to that position on the rim when you have a flat, but if you got Schwalbes, and ride with care, you may never have a flat.
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Old 06-22-21, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by md2
Maybe I'm just not used to how much play exists in fatter tires?
The same % variance will look larger on a larger tire, yes, but it sounds like the tire itself is probably okay. You are looking at the correct witness marks, right? I don't presume to insult anyone's intelligence, but it may be worth nothing that things like reflective stripes are often not uniform around the tire and the witness line/molding at the bead itself is the right mark to check. You're probably looking at it correctly, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless.

Do you see a "hop" or a "dip" in the tire as you spin it? If one small area of the bead stays a little sunken still, that area should have a slight dip in the tread. You may also notice a small lateral (side to side) shimmy when spun. If neither of those are objectionable to you and you can't feel it when riding, then it's probably okay. In the realm of larger tires, I've had some that spin about as true as true can be, and I've had some that always have some nonconformity to them even when the bead is seated correctly. These don't tend to be made to the precision of automotive tires, unfortunately.
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Old 06-23-21, 01:39 AM
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@J.Higgins: Yep, working around the tire to move the slack around to where the bead is tight--i.e., starting at positions where the bead is a bit further out, and working the minimal excess around to where the bead is closer in--seems to work. A bit finnicky, though.

@hokiefyd: Thanks. That's a helpful comment. I am mostly using the reflective strip as it's easier to eyeball, but yes, the actual tire molding shows the same variance. But your comment is a good reminder that I should look closely at the molding, not the strip. I definitely felt bumpiness (to the point that my sprung Brooks All Terrain was bouncing!) when this was worse. I think I've gotten it to the point where it's barely noticeable now. For what it's worth, the wheels are somewhat out of true (by a couple of mm)--probably not enough to really contribute to the feel, but certainly enough to make it harder to eyeball lumpiness when spinning the wheel.
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