cyccommute 

Depends on what you want. I would put Ortlieb in the category of the best “modern” panniers on the market. Yes, they are heavy(ish) but they are extremely durable and simple in design. Their connection to the rack is by far the most secure and easiest to remove attachment I’ve used. The large, single pocket design makes them far easier to organize and pack than those panniers with all the pouches and zippers and straps.

The “innovation” in bike bags more recently has been in bikepacking gear but that has all kinds of problems with pouches, zippers, weird shapes, weird straps, etc. They work better for off-road travel than panniers…even Ortlieb…but there are severe compromises in using them. I find that I have to remove almost everything from them every night to set up camp and cook food because, for example, my stove fits in one little corner of my frame bag but my fuel canister fits in another corner of a completely different bag.

Tourist in MSN

Apologies for being off topic again (not on panniers), but a couple weeks ago in this thread there was a brief disagreement about hanging food to keep it away from bears. I do not want to re-litigate that argument here, but I recently saw a good article on camping in areas with black bears (NOT grizzlies), and bear precautions.
https://queticosuperior.org/tips-for...ast-minnesota/

It included a good graphic that was cited as being from the Forest Service, pasted here:



That is the method I use when appropriate trees are present, I use two lines and a pulley, or when the food pack is quite heavy, two pulleys. This was the first time I saw a graphic that shows my method with two lines.

GhostRider62

I like the PCT method of hanging a bag

BikeLite

Here is the USDA location where the bear graphic came from.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/super...d=FSEPRD501262

Tourist in MSN

Thanks.

I think that is a new graphic, in the past I saw lots of graphics that would have a stout branch sticking out to the side far enough that you could hang food from the branch and still be six feet from the trunk and also high enough, but trees with such branches were quite rare in canoe country. Canoeing, food packs are often quite heavy due to the size of group and often have a week of food (or more) at the start of a trip. Backpackers are more likely to be solo or in pairs, and fewer days of food at the start, thus easier to find tree branches that will suffice.

str

GRAMM TOURPACKING BERLIN is your woman! )

anyway, so you want LIGHT panniers to carry aprox 50L?

PedalingWalrus

Here are my Mountain Laurels on my other bike as I prepare for a weekend trip this Friday

Calsun

What is important for me is having a yellow pannier that is easy for motorists to see and to have an outside pocket for items I want to get to quickly without digging through the main compartment.

Tourist in MSN

I can't help you with the pocket, but 99 percent of the motorists you have to worry are behind you. If you have panniers that do not have the high visibility that you want, you can certainly add something to provide that.

If you ever do a trip with Adventure Cycling Assoc (or ACA) you are issued a small triangle and asked to put it on your bike or body. I got one a bit over a decade ago. About six years ago I started using that on all of my tours for the added visibility.

First photo is from my tour in 2019, second photo is my tour last month. These tours were not with ACA.





I have both Carradry and Ortlieb panniers, I choose which to use on a trip by trip basis. Both are not very visible from the rear, Carradry are gray and black, Ortlieb are yellow and black.

If you want to be visible from behind, you can certainly buy something that is quite visible and add it to your bike or person. The yellow part of the ACA triangle is reflective, and most cars these days have headlamps on during daytime so that reflective material can be more visible to someone in the car behind you, especially in overcast conditions.

ADDENDUM ADDED NEXT DAY:

On my 2019 tour, my rack top bag was getting nearly empty before I got to a grocery store, did not have enough of a rack top bag to support the ACA triangle, so I put it on my left pannier. And for the next few days I thought that the passing cars gave me more room with the triangle closer to them, thus I have since always put it on the left side.

Note that both photos are on different bikes but both have two taillights. I almost always use one flasher during daytime, but if it is overcast or foggy I run both. On one rainy tour, one stopped working from the corrosion in the electronics, since then I have considered the second one a spare.

The second photo above also shows a third light on the rear fender, but that is dyno powered and when touring that is almost always turned off because I am using the dynohub to charge batteries. So, I do not count that light when touring.

gauvins

I remember reading that hi-viz vests/etc had limited impact on perception. What DID make a difference was a bio-mechanical signal, such as hi-viz ankle bracelet, pedal-mounted reflectors, etc.

​​​​​​Now, Ortlieb white patch or hi-viz triangles are probably better than camo bags. But moving hi-viz markers that suggest human motion - looks like we have a winner.

JWK

Please tell me what handlebars you have there! How long have you had them?

Tourist in MSN

The tour I did this past month, my touring partner must have read the same thing as you, he had reflective ankle bands on. He took them off after I told him that they could not be seen when his panniers were in the way.

I cropped the photo from a much larger photo, I was at a significant distance behind him when I took the photo.



When I used to drive home from work in the dark, I can say that pedal reflectors were VERY noticeable in dark because they moved up and down, I could see bicyclists at quite a distance.

Randonneurs in USA are required to wear reflective ankle bands at night, but they are not touring and do not have panniers on the bike.

My pedals do not play well with reflectors, I put red (should have been amber but I only had red) reflective tape on my left side crank arms. Ran out of tape, but since have bought more to put on the right side crank arms.

Calsun

The evolution of humans makes us far more observant of anything that moves. In the 1970's laws were passed that mandated reflectors attached to wheel spokes and to the back of pedals. They worked very well but adult cyclists found them to be no "cool" and removed them.

I came very close to running over a bicyclist with my truck one night. The young fellow was wearing black pants and a black sweatshirt to look cool. He was also invisible. Fortunately his bike pedals had the mandated reflectors and I could see them moving up and down and so I slowed down.

For touring it would be wise to have the wheel reflectors on the spokes of the front and rear wheels and to find a way to attach small reflectors to ones cleat pedals. Anything that moves is going to be magnitudes more apparent to approaching motorists.

I wear a yellow or lime green jersey and wind breaker when cycling as these colors stick out from the background far better than red colored ones. There is a reason why so many urban fire departments switched away from red fire trucks. At dusk or on foggy and overcast days a red jersey is going to be less likely to attract the attention of an approaching motorist, especially one that is driving "drunk" by using their smartphone.

gauvins

Very good point. (I don't use rear panniers. Only dry bags. I'll take a closer look).

RCMoeur 

As someone who buys retroreflective sheeting by the roll, I'll note that although red is technically the correct color for rear-facing reflectors on vehicles, yellow has a much higher luminous intensity per unit of surface area. Also, reflective material on cranks reflects to the front and rear depending on the point in the pedal stroke.

I think many users removed the wheel reflectors because they're just not effective for their intended purpose. From a distance viewed broadside, they look very impressive, but most side conflicts involve a cyclist in motion, where the bicycle is approaching the conflicting vehicle from one side and the wheel reflectors are completely out of the headlight beam pattern until just before the collision. The most effective method of conspicuity for side and turning conflicts is a visible headlamp on the bicycle, as the reflectors aren't generally in the beam pattern and an emitted beam that reaches the conflicting driver's eyes is needed.

indyfabz

I’d love to see this setup of yours you keep describing.

gauvins

Pic taken 2 days ago at gare St-Charles (Marseille). Identical 6 years ago was more conventional. Will eventually find time to show evolution.

Big plus here is the MLD backpack on the rear rack. (And smaller panniers are a good way to reduce the amount of gear.

PedalingWalrus

this will be my first overnighter with them. I have only used them 4 times previously and it was a matter of dialing them in. They were not great for me right away, probably because I am so used to Jones bars.


The aero hand position is actually great right from the beginning. It is the wide/normal position I had to dial in.

Oddity cycles made the bars.

I may report later on how they dialed in over time

Tourist in MSN

I actually put reflectors on my first two touring bikes. I built them up, thus reflectors did not come on them. Yes, I even paid money to buy reflectors. BUT, they were cheap reflectors, and not made very well, they did not reflect very well at all. I eventually chucked them.

All of my touring bikes (three) have reflective sidewalls when I tour. Yes, a reflective sidewall does not move like a reflector moves (it moves, but the reflected light is from the same place as if it was not moving), but it still is quite effective and even though part of it is hidden behind panniers, part of it is always visible.

Reddleman

Reflective spoke covers or skins can also be quite effective, making the entire wheel reflect when spinning. Definitely provides visual bulk at night from the side when moving.

LeeG

For that bike I would use a low rider front rack with medium to small panniers, Revelate Designs or similar horizontal frame bag that hangs below the top tube about 4” from head tube to seat tube, then a drybag on the rear rack.
I would discourage putting large panniers on the rear, a large handlebar bag cantilevered high over the front wheel or going for a big front/rear pannier load as the bike really isn’t designed as a heavy load carrier even though that is a typical set up for a typical sport touring bike from that era,

While the bike is marketed as a loaded rouring bike I’m pretty sure the rear dropouts are 126mm and the rims are narrow. Which can be a perfectly durable wheel for light touring IF the wheels were built well and maintained from day one. My experience running a shop was that I repaired/rebuilt a lot of old “ten speed” rear wheels that people used for touring. They would load up their old trusty steed “that never had wheel problems before” and spokes would start popping because they were never trued properly from day one and all it took was 25 lbs on the rear wheel for things to fail. Assuming the wheels are 27” and the tires are 1 1/8” (28-630) I’d suggest going to 1 1/4” tires. If the rims are narrow 20mm outside width I’d recommend replacing the rear wheel with a 130mm spaced hub with 22-25mm outside width rim for 1 1/4” tires.

The front rack looks nice but honestly isn’t an optimum design for top loads or pannier placement. This is a common design error for some front racks. Look at how far forward from the fork it places the load. They did that supposedly to keep stuff away from the brake cable but it’s just contrary to good weight placement. What bike manufacturers did to sell bikes is not necessarily optimum for the intended use.

Sure putting weight on the front end alows down handling. Putting weight on any vehicles slows down handling. Piling weight on the rear of a bike with moderate chainstay length screws up hamdling but putting weight down low on the front wheel puts that weight entirely in your hands. Also that undished 36 spoke front wheel is stronger than that dished rear wheel.
Yes they sold that touring bike with touring racks but they also sold it with narrow rims and 1 1/8” tires because…fashion.

pdlamb

I'm not trying to be querulous or cantankerous, really. And this bike will need adaptors to put on water bottle cages if they're to be used. But how does one carry fluids with a frame bag, and is it necessary to stop to access water from panniers or the rear rack?

I thought the best part of moving from a 1975 Schwinn LeTour to a newer bike was being able to grab a sip while riding.

LeeG

The Revelate frame bag I’m speaking of is the medium size and works great for 56cm and larger frames. It’s not a full triangle bag. There’s still room for two bottles on seat and down tube. But measure first, tall bottles won’t fit easily.. The amount of stuff that bag can take is about as much as the handlebar bags I used to use, I initially got it to carry a heavy 4’ chain and lock. Now it carries gloves, tube and repair stuff, garden tools with room to spare,

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/inde...TangleFrameBag

Xavier65

Yup, reflective ankle bands are pretty indicative (at distance) that there is a cyclist ahead (given the up & down oscillation).

They are 100x better than a helmet.

When one has rear panniers, they can at least still be seen by oncoming vehicles.

When one has rear AND front panniers, they're a waste of time.

It's then a matter of figuring out a flashing light in the sweet spot between politely, but noticeably alerting heavier road users, and irritating them so much that they are inclined to perform 'close shave' penalising tactics.

Yeah, I do have one of those ultra-bright rear flashers, that I now realise can only be sanctioned in foggy conditions. :-/

gmcjetpilot

THANKS FOR THE TIPS..... Appreciate the safety input. Yes you have to be seen to avoid being hit.

The IDEAL part of the racks and CG and affects is noted. Nothing is optimal but I am going to "Run what I Brung", I will keep the load as low and light and weight over or aft of front axial. It will be something light but bulky, like the sleeping bag and may be a very light single person tent. I just went to REI to shop for a sub 2 pound tent. WOW expensive.

The backpack in tree made me laugh. I use to do long distance backpacking for many days at a time, with all my food on by back. You had to hang your food up to keep the critters off them,. The blue ridge mountains has little Lean-to;s. They are simple structures with wire mesh bunks off the ground to sleep on. The structure with slanted roof, 3 walls. The open side had chain link fence to keep the wild boar's out at night. Still the rodents would come looking for food. One of my hiking partners had their food raided. The rodent jumped from upper bunk, to pack hanging from rafter. It gnaw through pack and into food. Granola I recall.

PS COOL PICTURES.... NICE !!!