austropithicus

Yeah, I should leave. See you in four years.

Retro Grouch 

If you live that long.

cyclezealot

So this topic only affects those over 50. Hardly.

austropithicus

Zing!!!

cranky old dude

You'ld be suprised what you stand to lose to the Health Care System. They will leagally deduct from your future wages. They will take your 401K. They will take your annuity. They will take your life.

The rare couple who dies healthy are the fortunate ones, the rest of us Americans are doomed to selfishly metered Health Care and financial ruin.

cyclezealot

^^... forgetting some big ifs.. Many don't qualify due to pre-existing conditions. 2. Cancellation policies. They'll find a way. Undisclosed conditions. Won't do much good for many anyway.. They'll call treatments experimental, what ever it takes to get out of their obligations and you're stuck . So , why waste your money. You might very well end up bankrupt anyway.

austropithicus

That's the conclusion I have come to.

Retro Grouch 

Yes, but then again, you might not.

austropithicus

The number I have heard is 75% of those who experience a major medical expense and have health insurance file bankruptcy anyway. Sorry I don't have a link so maybe it's just hearsay. Also, what would be considered a major medical expense?

Rober

Thanks to those of you who want to discuss this topic in a meaningful way for sticking around after the scolding, even if you are younger and P&R are important to you. These are the kind of discussions that evoke change, no matter how slowly. Avoidance of difficulty never yields anything.

cyclezealot

1200 dollars a month. I'd be writing bad checks before I know it. But, then one does not have to worry about health insurance in jail .?

tulip

Okay, so the decision is easy: jail or Europe. I know which one I'm taking.

For the time-being, though, my premiums for individual coverage are $185/month with a $500 deductible. That's not bad, but if I were to get sick or have an accident, the premiums would go way up. In fact, I'm hesitant to file claims for my shrink visits because that could hike the premiums. So actually, my out of pocket expenses are much higher than my premiums + deductible because I don't claim my main health care costs.

Cyclezealot, good to know about the retirement visa. Luckily, I don't have to worry about it because I'm an EU citizen, but it's still good to know that it exists for others.

Retro Grouch 

Yeah, that percentage sounds way high to me. I'm questionning how valid it is but I don't have any facts. I'm thinking that if 75% was factual I would have heard it from multiple sources.

cyclezealot

Not familiar with the 75% value. I think many of us know about 1/2 of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills.
..

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds




February 3, 2005
Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.
The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.
..
Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance
. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tcy_study.html

cyclezealot

^.. subtract 38 % from 100 , you come close to Austo's 75 % value. Meaning. that 62% still had coverage and still went bankrupt.

Retro Grouch 

75% of the people who file bankruptcy had health insurance is a lot different from saying that 75% of people with both insurance and significant medical expenses file bankruptcy anyway.

Monoborracho

Austro, don't leave. I didn't mean it personally. I enjoy your banter, even when we're on the same side.

cyclezealot

Just trying to find the closest parallel factoid approaching the 75 percent value. Still, says, having insurance does not = financial security.

Retro Grouch 

Yeah, like I indicated in one of the earlier posts, if you have a heart attack you can run up $100,000 in medical costs real fast. An insurance program that pays 80% still leaves you with a $20,000 tab and, you're probably not earning money during the time that you're hospitalized. That probably explains the 38% drop in coverage between the time that people get sick and the time they file for bankruptcy. They're strapped for cash and figure out that they're screwed anyway. So, once the insurance company pays out it's 80%, they dump 'em.

The health insurance program that you paid for probably covers the hospital's needs more than it helps you.

BluesDawg

Interesting discussion. Too many divisive statements that tend to get people arguing about things they basically agree on, but that is the nature of internet discussions.

I am no fan of or apologist for the current medical support system in the USA, but I am fortunate enough to have been in a situation where it has basically worked well for me. I work for a large corporation with a good benefits package including good medical insurance. I pay part of the cost of my insurance and I guess you could say I pay for the rest of it in lieu of increased salary I could receive if my employer was not paying for it.

When I learned that I had throat cancer last summer, the first thing the hospitals, doctors and treatment facilities did was to check my insurance. With my policy from Blue Cross/Blue Shield, I was ushered to the front of the line and given my choice of the best treatment options available. I have had to pay copays and percentages of various parts of my treatment choices and I continue to do so. I will be paying for quite a while. It has not been cheap, but I have been amazed at the amounts that are being written off of the initial charges per agreement with the insurer. That's some kind of racket, I'm sure.
I can't say for sure that this illness won't end up bankrupting me, but I don't think it will. I do know that I will have a hard time getting insurance from another source in the future unless some changes are made. I am counting on my elected officials to make those changes. Everyone needs to be covered. I'm not smart enough to know how the system needs to be structured or paid for, but I know enough to know that anyone who suggests that I would have been better off without the coverage I have is wrong at best and likely much more ignorant than they think of themselves.

The medical vacation option may have some appeal, but I don't see how I could have maintained a family, a job and a life while traipsing off to Europe for several months of treatments. We need quality and affordable medical care for everyone and we need it here, not overseas. There is much room for improvement. In fact there is dire need for improvement.

I do agree that there are limits to what we should expect to be able to do to try to keep ourselves alive. At some point we have to face our mortality and not waste all our time, effort and resources on diminishing returns. My own situation could turn into such a scenario if we have not been successful in making my disease go away for good. But it has been worth the struggle so far and more to come if need be.

cyclezealot

We did not go trapsing off to the EU. We live here much of the year.. Why are we here. In part, because our Blue Cross was an affiliated HMO. I assure you , you don't go to the front of the line , with an HMO.. While they argue whose budget is to pay for a given treatment, you might die. Our comparions, being here and there. I'd like to see a survey of Americans who have experienced medical systems abroad. It'd be interesting.

Dchiefransom

What we never see is where the money for all of that comes from. It would be nice to see the tax sources laid out. If companies that provide medical coverage for their employees could save money by having a national plan, then I think those companies would be lobbying hard for it. I'm wondering if the companies would still have to pay about the same in the form of a tax, instead of to the insurance company. I've never seen an actual breakdown of sources of money. Heck those 160 Euros a month is less than I pay every two weeks for my share of my HMO.

esther-L

Some of the decisions which prolong the dying process and cost a lot of health-care money for not much benefit are made by the patient. Others are made by the family members. If you have agreed or disagreed with something you read in this thread, do your family a favor.

Talk about your wishes. Look into what documents are used to record these wishes in your state and country. Make sure that multiple family members know what your wishes are, if you are not able to make those decisions.

The Framingham Risk Score is about the best predictor of risk of heart attack. Half of all heart attacks occur in people who have no risk factors and 20% in people with no major risk factors.

Esther

Rober

The participants in this thread are, I'm sure, far from a representative sample of all Americans, but I think there seems to be general agreement that something needs to be done on the national level to provide fair access to health care for everyone in our country. The tone of this discussion is much different from discussions of health care options that happened 8-10 years ago. I think we've all been stung, in one way or another, by the perceptions of health care, our "rights" to it, and health care practices in past decade. The fear that any of us will be caught up in the current system and become a victim of it is palpable. This discussion, in itself, is progress I think.

Retro Grouch 

I agree but I doubt it'll happen for at least another 4 years. Obama's plan calls for making universal insurance coverage mandatory. I think that is just going to perpetuate the problem. Insurance isn't the solution, insurance is the problem.