health insurance underwriting
02-05-09, 09:55 PM
#126
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I'm no fan of HMO's in general, and my car carries a bumper sticker we had especially made stating, "Kaiser Escapee."
We had terrible experiences with Kaiser - too much for this thread.
But, you were acting as it there was no help for someone over 65, and I strongly disagree with that.
02-05-09, 10:53 PM
#127
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I am not sure of the exact number, but the total overhead (or "cost of doing business") for Medicaid is somewhere between 4 and 6 percent of the total Medicaid budget. Whether or not there are economies of scale at work here, and no doubt that could be argued, Medicaid seems to be a very efficient operation. Medicaid is, by the way, a single-payer model with no HMO skim-offs at all.
Contrary to popular belief, Medicaid patients are not limited by a "preferred provider" list, although many in private medical and mental health practice do not take Medicaid as payment for services. Any hospital or medical clinic that receives Federal funds is required to serve those funded only by Medicaid. Most hospitals receive some kind of Federal funding, as do some community clinics. Even Kaiser receives Federal funding, mostly for research, as I understand it. Private hospitals that receive no Federal funding are, of course, not required to serve anyone they don't choose to serve other than on an emergency basis - but that's a different discussion.
Extrapolating from this, I can see that any national health plan proposed in the United States must also make the same requirements of facilities receiving Federal funds. But, if the plan were truly universal, this would be a moot point. Private operations couldn't survive on such a limited pool of patients, and they would quickly be starved out of the market.
It is entirely possible that a single-payer universal health plan for all Americans could operate on a 4-6% overhead and be administered as efficiently as Medicaid.
Contrary to popular belief, Medicaid patients are not limited by a "preferred provider" list, although many in private medical and mental health practice do not take Medicaid as payment for services. Any hospital or medical clinic that receives Federal funds is required to serve those funded only by Medicaid. Most hospitals receive some kind of Federal funding, as do some community clinics. Even Kaiser receives Federal funding, mostly for research, as I understand it. Private hospitals that receive no Federal funding are, of course, not required to serve anyone they don't choose to serve other than on an emergency basis - but that's a different discussion.
Extrapolating from this, I can see that any national health plan proposed in the United States must also make the same requirements of facilities receiving Federal funds. But, if the plan were truly universal, this would be a moot point. Private operations couldn't survive on such a limited pool of patients, and they would quickly be starved out of the market.
It is entirely possible that a single-payer universal health plan for all Americans could operate on a 4-6% overhead and be administered as efficiently as Medicaid.
02-05-09, 11:54 PM
#128
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Addmendum to my post,the most common age for males to get breast cancer is between 60 and 70,so you might want to get your S.O.to teach you how to do a self breast exam and do them regularly.I know I'll be checking my remaining breast monthly.
02-06-09, 12:06 AM
#129
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Re: Overthehillmedi's post.
I'd be interested to hear the experiences of an American with a similar medical story and private insurance. I suspect the American would be saddled with thousands of dollars of debt to pay off, possible bankruptcy, and at the very least, they would be tethered to their current job because they would be immediately rendered ineligible for insurance from any other insurance company save some large group policies that are prohibited by law from denying coverage to new employees. Self employment would be out of the question, as would employment with a small firm. But I doubt they would have received any more timely or competent care, and I'm nearly certain that any and all surgeries, biopsies, etc. would have been done on an outpatient basis regardless of what their doctor had to say about it.
I'd be interested to hear the experiences of an American with a similar medical story and private insurance. I suspect the American would be saddled with thousands of dollars of debt to pay off, possible bankruptcy, and at the very least, they would be tethered to their current job because they would be immediately rendered ineligible for insurance from any other insurance company save some large group policies that are prohibited by law from denying coverage to new employees. Self employment would be out of the question, as would employment with a small firm. But I doubt they would have received any more timely or competent care, and I'm nearly certain that any and all surgeries, biopsies, etc. would have been done on an outpatient basis regardless of what their doctor had to say about it.
I am sure that my prospects for future insurance options will be severely limited without some forced changes to eligibility requirements. I will have to face this issue in a few years when I have planned to retire and have my wife's insurance through her employer cover me while I supplement the family income by part time and/or self employment.
02-06-09, 03:40 AM
#130
Senior Member
lol.. That's certainly the most polite explanation I've heard.
When the HMO's realized their "model" failed miserably, they implemented an unprecedented expense loading ever seen in history, created an unrealistic and burdensome fee schedule, and paid their exec's outrageous salaries. Had sort of a party before the fall.
When the HMO's realized their "model" failed miserably, they implemented an unprecedented expense loading ever seen in history, created an unrealistic and burdensome fee schedule, and paid their exec's outrageous salaries. Had sort of a party before the fall.
Where did HMO's originate. Did not this Nixon -Erlichman dialogue say it all.?.
...$$
.This is a transcript of the 1971 conversation between President Richard Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman that led to the HMO act of 1973:
$$
President Nixon: “Yeah.”
Ehrlichman: “… we have now narrowed down the vice president’s problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser’s Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don’t think they’ll work, but if the President thinks it’s a good idea, I’ll support him a hundred percent.’”
President Nixon: “Well, what’s … what’s the judgment?”
Ehrlichman: “Well, everybody else’s judgment very strongly is that we go with it.”
President Nixon: “All right.”
Ehrlichman: “And, uh, uh, he’s the one holdout that we have in the whole office.”
President Nixon: “Say that I … I … I’d tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it’s, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I’m not to keen on any of these damn medical programs.”
Ehrlichman: “This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “This … this is a …”
President Nixon: “I don’t [unclear] …”
Ehrlichman: “… private enterprise one.”
President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”
Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”
President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: [Unclear] “… and the incentives run the right way.”
President Nixon: “Not bad.”
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transc...O_act_of_1973:
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Last edited by cyclezealot; 02-06-09 at 03:45 AM.
02-06-09, 07:21 AM
#131
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Fascinating.
I always assumed the HMO's had a self-feeding frenzy when it was inevitable their operating model didn't work and they realized time was short.
You've shown evidence that they knew all along this was their pocket lining boondoggle.
I always assumed the HMO's had a self-feeding frenzy when it was inevitable their operating model didn't work and they realized time was short.
You've shown evidence that they knew all along this was their pocket lining boondoggle.
02-06-09, 08:39 AM
#132
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Yes - fascinating... So the entire horrific mess was created by enabling legislation promoted by what party? I wish we had a Mr. Burns emoticon...
02-06-09, 10:20 AM
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I am not sure of the exact number, but the total overhead (or "cost of doing business") for Medicaid is somewhere between 4 and 6 percent of the total Medicaid budget. Whether or not there are economies of scale at work here, and no doubt that could be argued, Medicaid seems to be a very efficient operation. Medicaid is, by the way, a single-payer model with no HMO skim-offs at all.
Contrary to popular belief, Medicaid patients are not limited by a "preferred provider" list, although many in private medical and mental health practice do not take Medicaid as payment for services. Any hospital or medical clinic that receives Federal funds is required to serve those funded only by Medicaid. Most hospitals receive some kind of Federal funding, as do some community clinics. Even Kaiser receives Federal funding, mostly for research, as I understand it. Private hospitals that receive no Federal funding are, of course, not required to serve anyone they don't choose to serve other than on an emergency basis - but that's a different discussion.
Extrapolating from this, I can see that any national health plan proposed in the United States must also make the same requirements of facilities receiving Federal funds. But, if the plan were truly universal, this would be a moot point. Private operations couldn't survive on such a limited pool of patients, and they would quickly be starved out of the market.
It is entirely possible that a single-payer universal health plan for all Americans could operate on a 4-6% overhead and be administered as efficiently as Medicaid.
Contrary to popular belief, Medicaid patients are not limited by a "preferred provider" list, although many in private medical and mental health practice do not take Medicaid as payment for services. Any hospital or medical clinic that receives Federal funds is required to serve those funded only by Medicaid. Most hospitals receive some kind of Federal funding, as do some community clinics. Even Kaiser receives Federal funding, mostly for research, as I understand it. Private hospitals that receive no Federal funding are, of course, not required to serve anyone they don't choose to serve other than on an emergency basis - but that's a different discussion.
Extrapolating from this, I can see that any national health plan proposed in the United States must also make the same requirements of facilities receiving Federal funds. But, if the plan were truly universal, this would be a moot point. Private operations couldn't survive on such a limited pool of patients, and they would quickly be starved out of the market.
It is entirely possible that a single-payer universal health plan for all Americans could operate on a 4-6% overhead and be administered as efficiently as Medicaid.
The problem with Medicaid is that, unlike Medicare, it is a means tested program. Therefore, it is made into a political football and whipping-boy which leads to lower reimbursement rates than many providers can, or are willing to, accept unless they are forced to. It is also subject to political attack because of it's overwhelmingly poor client base. The M.O. of it's opponents is a variation of the "starve the beast" strategy, i.e., underfund it, then complain about how it's running in the red, and argue for even lower reimbursement rates and more restrictive benefits. Fraud is also a problem used to attack it, as if that is some kind of inherent and unavoidable flaw in the system. But I would suggest that it is far less expensive to control fraud than it is to integrate private profit seeking entities into a national HC plan. I also find it telling that HMOs are not clamoring to get involved in the Medicaid program. Wonder why that is?
Medicare OTOH, is more politically popular (seniors vote a lot more than the poor) and is universally accepted by providers. Not all Medicare clients are enrolled with HMO's and, at least in the cases of direct payment by the gov't., Medicare has a reputation among providers of prompt payment and straightforward billing procedures. HMO's need to be exorcised from Medicare completely. Once that is done, start dropping the eligibility age until, eventually, everyone can enroll. Wallah,... we have a single payer universal HC system that no moneygrubbing private ins. co. could compete against.
02-06-09, 10:25 AM
#134
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For more information from the perspective of medical providers, I would refer you to the website of Physicians for a National Health Care Program.
https://www.pnhp.org/
Some selected excerpts:
Myths and Memes about single-payer health insurance in the United States: A rebuttal to conservative claims.
Geyman, John; International Journal of Health Services, Volume 35, Number 1, Pages 63–90, 2005
https://www.pnhp.org/facts/myths_memes.pdf
For-Profit Medicare Plans Cost 11 Percent More Than Traditional Medicare
https://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_res...erpayments.pdf
A series of brief papers debunking the common misconceptions about the Canadian health system.
https://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_res...foundation.php
The case for eliminating the private health insurance industry.
https://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/july/_...surance_fo.php
https://www.pnhp.org/
Some selected excerpts:
Myths and Memes about single-payer health insurance in the United States: A rebuttal to conservative claims.
Geyman, John; International Journal of Health Services, Volume 35, Number 1, Pages 63–90, 2005
https://www.pnhp.org/facts/myths_memes.pdf
For-Profit Medicare Plans Cost 11 Percent More Than Traditional Medicare
https://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_res...erpayments.pdf
A series of brief papers debunking the common misconceptions about the Canadian health system.
https://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_res...foundation.php
The case for eliminating the private health insurance industry.
https://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/july/_...surance_fo.php
Last edited by Sailorman13; 02-06-09 at 10:42 AM.
02-06-09, 04:43 PM
#135
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John E,Please don't read this,you'll just get your knickers all knotted up.I went back and reread John E's post where he said that he had finally found coverage for him and his family.I don't know and don't want to know what he has to pay for coverage but if he was in B.C. and joined up with our universal plan the monthly payment for a family of three is the pricely sum of CDN$108. And if that was more thanfinanceually affordable for him there are subsidys available to help him out.I have a feeling that he is paying quite a bit more than that for his plans and possibly with a lot of restrictions and copouts.There are advantages in a single sourced plan the reduced payments being one.
02-06-09, 04:56 PM
#136
Senior Member
I didn't know Kaiser was in Canada.
You mean you know who your doctor is? Lucky you, or maybe not if you have some chronic condition. Kaiser is one of the "better" HMO's. I just went through 7 years of a new insurance plan every single year. Every year a higher cost, bigger deductible, bigger copay, shorter "approved" drug list, and a new provider booklet to "choose" a primary physician from. Fortunately, I only had to see a doctor once and I do remember her name, even though it was about 4 years ago. If she didn't have a goofy name that I could actually pronounce, and if she wasn't a babe, I'm sure I wouldn't remember her either. All the others, I couldn't tell you who they were. None of them.
You mean you know who your doctor is? Lucky you, or maybe not if you have some chronic condition. Kaiser is one of the "better" HMO's. I just went through 7 years of a new insurance plan every single year. Every year a higher cost, bigger deductible, bigger copay, shorter "approved" drug list, and a new provider booklet to "choose" a primary physician from. Fortunately, I only had to see a doctor once and I do remember her name, even though it was about 4 years ago. If she didn't have a goofy name that I could actually pronounce, and if she wasn't a babe, I'm sure I wouldn't remember her either. All the others, I couldn't tell you who they were. None of them.
I was doing that to compare the story about the appointments in Canada to what I could get for a regular appointment here at Kaiser. I have a doctor that I regularly see, but if I need urgent care I have to see whomever is handling the urgent care clinic that day. I've been sick enough to have to leave work, and was told on the phone that there were no openings for urgent care. When I said it was mandatory that I get a doctor's note for work, they tell me to come in, sign in, and wait for an opening.
I just checked again, and the next appointment available would be Feb 18, at 9:30AM. Maybe the supposed wait time in Canada isn't much different than here.
02-06-09, 07:07 PM
#137
Senior Member
John E,Please don't read this,you'll just get your knickers all knotted up.I went back and reread John E's post where he said that he had finally found coverage for him and his family.I don't know and don't want to know what he has to pay for coverage but if he was in B.C. and joined up with our universal plan the monthly payment for a family of three is the pricely sum of CDN$108. And if that was more thanfinanceually affordable for him there are subsidys available to help him out.I have a feeling that he is paying quite a bit more than that for his plans and possibly with a lot of restrictions and copouts.There are advantages in a single sourced plan the reduced payments being one.
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02-06-09, 08:18 PM
#138
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In September, 2002, I changed jobs. I found out I would have to work 90 days on the new job before I could get medical insurance. I grumbled loudly about what it was going to cost to extend my old insurance for three months, and when my wife was talking about it at her job, one of her customers (she's a hair stylist) remembered her telling him that I was a veteran, and told her I could get VA health care.
I was very surprised to learn this, but when I checked it out, sure enough I was eligible for Category 8 health care (Category 8 means neither disabled nor destitute, and has co-pays). I signed up. On January 17th, 2003, less than 4 months later, the VA stopped accepting Category 8 applicants. I'm glad I signed up when I did, and I'm glad I went ahead and got the regular insurance from my employer after I became eligible (I did it mainly for my wife).
After 35 years of almost no medical issues or doctor visits, the last two years have been a bombardment, with one medical procedure after another, non-stop, culminating in a lung cancer diagnosis, with surgery, then chemotherapy, and more kinds of scans, tests, and biopsies than I'd ever even heard of. Even with getting my health care from the VA, and having company insurance on top of that, I have paid a chunk. But it hasn't bankrupted me, and I feel I have received good health care from the VA (one of their standard chest x-rays before minor surgery was what found my cancer).
I truly hope the VA doesn't drop existing Category 8 patients (there have been rumors to that effect). I would certainly be uninsurable if I lost my company coverage, and even with it, things would be tough; it's the worst insurance I've ever seen, but will undoubtedly be even worse next year.
But I do have a salaried position, and lost no wages from the 4 weeks I had to take off after lung surgery or the two weeks I had to take off after thyroid surgery, or any of the single days I took off for chemotherapy, scans, etc, so I guess I should consider myself lucky.
I was very surprised to learn this, but when I checked it out, sure enough I was eligible for Category 8 health care (Category 8 means neither disabled nor destitute, and has co-pays). I signed up. On January 17th, 2003, less than 4 months later, the VA stopped accepting Category 8 applicants. I'm glad I signed up when I did, and I'm glad I went ahead and got the regular insurance from my employer after I became eligible (I did it mainly for my wife).
After 35 years of almost no medical issues or doctor visits, the last two years have been a bombardment, with one medical procedure after another, non-stop, culminating in a lung cancer diagnosis, with surgery, then chemotherapy, and more kinds of scans, tests, and biopsies than I'd ever even heard of. Even with getting my health care from the VA, and having company insurance on top of that, I have paid a chunk. But it hasn't bankrupted me, and I feel I have received good health care from the VA (one of their standard chest x-rays before minor surgery was what found my cancer).
I truly hope the VA doesn't drop existing Category 8 patients (there have been rumors to that effect). I would certainly be uninsurable if I lost my company coverage, and even with it, things would be tough; it's the worst insurance I've ever seen, but will undoubtedly be even worse next year.
But I do have a salaried position, and lost no wages from the 4 weeks I had to take off after lung surgery or the two weeks I had to take off after thyroid surgery, or any of the single days I took off for chemotherapy, scans, etc, so I guess I should consider myself lucky.
Last edited by Bud Bent; 02-06-09 at 08:38 PM.
02-06-09, 09:28 PM
#139
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160 euros = 252 $CDN =206 $US. I was snooping around on the net and checked out what my Albertan neighbours pay and even I'm p-o-ed,nada,diddlely squat,zip for residents.They would really appreciate it if you folks keep buying their oilsands derived oil though.
02-06-09, 09:29 PM
#140
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Attorneys for shareholders of UnitedHealth Group Inc. (UNH) asked a federal judge for $110 million in fees for their work on a $925.5 million settlement of a lawsuit alleging improper backdating of stock options.
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litrel...08/lr20836.htm
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litrel...08/lr20836.htm
02-06-09, 10:46 PM
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Thanks for the links Sailorman. I'll get to the papers soon, but I've got to get back to biking :-)
02-07-09, 02:59 AM
#142
Senior Member
Over the Hill. Do you have any idea. Say an American retires in Canada. With a visa.- Can they buy into the Canadian health care plan.. Heck. Consider the cost of dental insurance in the US.. That alone would approach the cost of the overall all health care plan in the EU..Just for dental..
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02-07-09, 06:55 AM
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It's my belief that most provinces required about a six month waiting period before landed immigrants and others can sign up with their plans.Just google "name of the province"medical plan to find their web sites for more info.I probablely just opened the floodgates to a horde of Yankee immigrants,bring lots of money,the economy needs it.! 
02-07-09, 10:11 AM
#144
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John E,Please don't read this,you'll just get your knickers all knotted up.I went back and reread John E's post where he said that he had finally found coverage for him and his family.I don't know and don't want to know what he has to pay for coverage but if he was in B.C. and joined up with our universal plan the monthly payment for a family of three is the pricely sum of CDN$108. And if that was more thanfinanceually affordable for him there are subsidys available to help him out.I have a feeling that he is paying quite a bit more than that for his plans and possibly with a lot of restrictions and copouts.There are advantages in a single sourced plan the reduced payments being one.
I finally have good individual health insurance policies for all three of us, with unfettered access to extremely broad PPO networks which include all of our favorite specialists and generalists. After working intensely with insurance agencies and underwriters during the past month, I believe strongly that the entire health care industry needs to embrace the Demming revolution, because it is so incredibly archaic and inefficient. We need to decouple employment from health insurance, and we can start by giving the tax credit to the worker instead of the employer. I am toying with the concept of signing up each newborn with his/her own personal, permanent, portable health insurance program, which he/she could retain at favorable rates even after illness or devastating injury strikes. I am looking for ways to encourage John Q. Public to embrace sensible diet and exercise habits, including taxing sugar-laden sodas. Above all else, I am looking for ways to reduce the cost of health care without interfering with access, choice, and quality, and this is where I get suspicious of single-payer. A recent bill in the California legislature would have created universal HMO-style health coverage for residents, which would have been a big step backward for those of us with good PPOs.
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02-07-09, 11:12 AM
#145
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What a lot of people don't know about public employee pension plans is that many of us will not be eligible for social security benefits as we don't pay into that system but our own system instead. They also don't realize that we pay into our own pension plans in a similar amount that people pay into social security (I pay 8.5% of my gross and my employing city pays even more than that). They think it's just a "free" benefit that tax payers are on the hook for.
The crazy thing is the health care costs. My employer claims that my Kaiser plan for me and my family costs $1200 a month. That's another $7.50 per hour they pay out on top of my salary. I've been very satisfied with the care received at Kaiser, but the cost is insane!
Last edited by pacificaslim; 02-07-09 at 11:18 AM.
02-07-09, 11:45 AM
#146
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I lived in Japan for 16 years and was covered under Japan's national insurance plan. Not great, not terrible--the Volkswagon of health care.
While in Japan, I was hospitalized to have a tumor removed from my neck. Spent a week in the head-and-neck surgery ward of the hospital. Total out-of-pocket cost to me was about $500.
When women deliver their babies there, they are also hospitalized for at least a day or two, making sure both mother and newborn are well. Here in the United States, what is it called "drive-through delivery." Compare America's infant mortality to rate to, say, some place like Cuba. It's pathetic.
The healthcare system in Japan works amazingly well. Unless the Japanese are much smarter than we are, then we in the U.S. should be able to craft a healthcare system that works at least as well as theirs.
02-07-09, 11:50 AM
#147
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American health care is THE reason why there is no way I'd ever consider moving back to the states. It's also the reason my brother and his wife, who is french like my wife, moved to France even though they much preferred their lifestyle in California. The only possible reason I can think of why anyone in the states would be against single payer health care is because he or she is making money, and probably lots of it, off the amazingly screwed-up system that americans seem unable to change.
A couple of examples: Maybe 10 years ago I got hit in the left eye by something that was launched by the lawnmower, ricocheted off something, and landed dead center in my eye. Three surgeries with I think 3 weeks in the hospital the first time, only a few days for the second, and only one day for the last. Total cost out of our pockets was so small that effectively it was nothing.
A year and a half ago I had prostrate cancer and my prostrate was removed. A week in the clinic, a private one, lots of follow-ups, total cost out of our pockets was maybe 200 euros. Max.
My wife is now retiring from the corporation she worked for with whom she had an excellent additional health coverage that aided what was picked up by the government system. She can retain that additional coverage for us for the grand price of 100 euros a month. For that we have a very generous additional coverage.
And no we are not limited in what docs we can see, etc.
Et voila why there is no way I'll ever consider moving back to the states. Unless by some miracle, and this would be a true miracle, Obama and the donkeys manage to put in place a single payer system. Or maybe the american people will finally realize that they're getting shafted royally and get out in the streets and let the elected people know that if they don't do something, the people will do something. But I don't think that's going to happen either. For some unknown reasons, americans seem to be incapable of mass protests that actually make a difference. Didn't use to be the case but sure is now. Too bad.
A couple of examples: Maybe 10 years ago I got hit in the left eye by something that was launched by the lawnmower, ricocheted off something, and landed dead center in my eye. Three surgeries with I think 3 weeks in the hospital the first time, only a few days for the second, and only one day for the last. Total cost out of our pockets was so small that effectively it was nothing.
A year and a half ago I had prostrate cancer and my prostrate was removed. A week in the clinic, a private one, lots of follow-ups, total cost out of our pockets was maybe 200 euros. Max.
My wife is now retiring from the corporation she worked for with whom she had an excellent additional health coverage that aided what was picked up by the government system. She can retain that additional coverage for us for the grand price of 100 euros a month. For that we have a very generous additional coverage.
And no we are not limited in what docs we can see, etc.
Et voila why there is no way I'll ever consider moving back to the states. Unless by some miracle, and this would be a true miracle, Obama and the donkeys manage to put in place a single payer system. Or maybe the american people will finally realize that they're getting shafted royally and get out in the streets and let the elected people know that if they don't do something, the people will do something. But I don't think that's going to happen either. For some unknown reasons, americans seem to be incapable of mass protests that actually make a difference. Didn't use to be the case but sure is now. Too bad.
02-09-09, 02:17 AM
#148
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Velotel. Your story is our story, except our case is more extreme. It was a Calif. HMO that allowed my wife's cancer to grow unchecked for 3 months, causing life long medical issues that will never be resolved. They postponed an MRI for almost 3 months while we were fighting with our GP to get the MRI and next, some issue over which clinic we could use for the MRI and specialists services; because , where we lived our assigned doctor could not use those facilities. Some absurd paper chase B.S...
About EU health care. The American community we know in Toulouse fully agree. We'd never return to America for medical reasons. When staying at a b and B in Dublin, our neighbor was an employee of the Dutch health Care's administrative intake in Amsterdam. .. She does the paper work when nationals and foreigner's subscribe to the Dutch National plan.. She said, never has she seen Americans complain or leave the system due to dissatisfaction.. One thing good for John E.. He has the cash to subscribe to something.. Over 50 , he is in the minority I suspect. Since few can afford medical insurance costs that exceed the cost of one's mortgage. We certainly could not.
About EU health care. The American community we know in Toulouse fully agree. We'd never return to America for medical reasons. When staying at a b and B in Dublin, our neighbor was an employee of the Dutch health Care's administrative intake in Amsterdam. .. She does the paper work when nationals and foreigner's subscribe to the Dutch National plan.. She said, never has she seen Americans complain or leave the system due to dissatisfaction.. One thing good for John E.. He has the cash to subscribe to something.. Over 50 , he is in the minority I suspect. Since few can afford medical insurance costs that exceed the cost of one's mortgage. We certainly could not.
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02-09-09, 07:28 AM
#149
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When women deliver their babies there[Japan], they are also hospitalized for at least a day or two, making sure both mother and newborn are well. Here in the United States, what is it called "drive-through delivery." Compare America's infant mortality to rate to, say, some place like Cuba. It's pathetic.
The healthcare system in Japan works amazingly well. Unless the Japanese are much smarter than we are, then we in the U.S. should be able to craft a healthcare system that works at least as well as theirs.
The healthcare system in Japan works amazingly well. Unless the Japanese are much smarter than we are, then we in the U.S. should be able to craft a healthcare system that works at least as well as theirs.
02-09-09, 11:57 AM
#150
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Since I am well out of the having kids deal I'm not real sure on the details (and in general am never real good at remembering details - always drove my ex-wife crazy) but I believe that in France mothers are in the hospital for if not a week, not far off a week. Actually I always find this a bit odd and excessive given that my son was born at home by design and that was in a small town in the Colorado mountains at 9000 ft elevation. His mother, my ex-wife, and I had a fine stroll through town the day after he was born. Anyway, not only are mothers in the hospital for maybe as long as a week here, fathers get a I think two weeks off from work to help with the kid. That's as in paid leave of absence. Could be even longer I suppose.I'd need to ask my wife who is french if that's correct but she's not here at the moment.
At any rate having lived here in France for 15 years now and having experienced the health care system, I shudder with absolute fear at the thought of having to put up with the american system. I keep wondering why people don't start marching in cities and towns across the country demanding a single payer universal system. Why do americans accept getting shafted by the dimwits in DC who are nothing more than thieves living the life of Riley paid for by the lobbies for the entire pharmacy, etc., world! If americans took a page from the french and started marching in the streets to have universal care, that would happen. It's called going on strike and it's a long proven method for enacting change. But for reasons that always escape me (despite the most earnest efforts of my father who hated unions and strikes - clearly we didn't see eye to eye on all that), americans have been led to believe that unions and strikes are unamerican and un-patriotic. Yet that's exactly what got working americans the 40 hour work week, retirement, health etc long ago that has since been steadily destroyed by DC, especially the elephants but with the donkeys just as eagerly doing the job (clinton was more repubber than demo though no democrats want to admit that). Looking back at the states from here in Europe really can make a person wonder what in the heck is wrong with people over there that they accept situations that here make people go ballistic against the government. But to be honest I have to admit that slowly and too rapidly the french have been led more and more to the right with the little bush sarko doing some massive damage at the moment. But I have a feeling that with the current crises the french are starting to wake up to what the right has been doing with their lust to follow the american model to put more and more of the wealth in fewer and fewer hands. About the only thing sarko has going for him now is arguably the most beautiful 'first lady' in the world, certainly the sexiest in my eyes.
At any rate having lived here in France for 15 years now and having experienced the health care system, I shudder with absolute fear at the thought of having to put up with the american system. I keep wondering why people don't start marching in cities and towns across the country demanding a single payer universal system. Why do americans accept getting shafted by the dimwits in DC who are nothing more than thieves living the life of Riley paid for by the lobbies for the entire pharmacy, etc., world! If americans took a page from the french and started marching in the streets to have universal care, that would happen. It's called going on strike and it's a long proven method for enacting change. But for reasons that always escape me (despite the most earnest efforts of my father who hated unions and strikes - clearly we didn't see eye to eye on all that), americans have been led to believe that unions and strikes are unamerican and un-patriotic. Yet that's exactly what got working americans the 40 hour work week, retirement, health etc long ago that has since been steadily destroyed by DC, especially the elephants but with the donkeys just as eagerly doing the job (clinton was more repubber than demo though no democrats want to admit that). Looking back at the states from here in Europe really can make a person wonder what in the heck is wrong with people over there that they accept situations that here make people go ballistic against the government. But to be honest I have to admit that slowly and too rapidly the french have been led more and more to the right with the little bush sarko doing some massive damage at the moment. But I have a feeling that with the current crises the french are starting to wake up to what the right has been doing with their lust to follow the american model to put more and more of the wealth in fewer and fewer hands. About the only thing sarko has going for him now is arguably the most beautiful 'first lady' in the world, certainly the sexiest in my eyes.