AndyGrow

Just wondering who runs Campy stuff on your two-fer?

I just started the process of switching over from Shimano to all (or as much) Campy as I can get.

And PLEASE - don't turn this into a Campy vs. Shimano thread! I just wanna know who has Campy!

TandemGeek

Campy Chorus Ergo 9 levers, Chorus Calipers, Racing T FD, Record long cage RD and Shimano 9 speed 12x27t cassette on '98 Erickson tandem.

Campy Chorus Ergo 9 levers, Record Calipers, Racing T FD, Record long cage RD and Shimano 9 speed 12x27t cassette on '02 Erickson tandem.

Also have a 12x32t "alpine" cassette for use as required; it's at the limit of the Campy Record's long cage capacity.

tandemracer

We are using Campy Ergo levers, brake calipers, derailleurs, pedals, hubs, and cassette on our Litespeed. Our frame is spaced 135 and I had a machine shop make a longer piece for the non-drive side of the rear axle.

Eurastus

My da Vinci JointVenture runs with Campy Chorus 9-speed Ergo levers and a Racing-T rear derailleur on 8-speed Shimano cassettes (12-28, 12-30, or 12-32 depending on how steep the hills are and what shape we're in at the time). Works smooth. You can see the full da Vinci specs at https://www.davincitandems.com/jv.html. I'm a big Campy and SunTour fan as you can see from my signature (though I do have one Dura-Ace bike).

Everyone and their dog ride Shimano-equiped bikes and I enjoy being different...sometimes just for difference sake...

galen_52657

My KHS is a mutt - all Shimano 8 speed with the exception of the left shift/brake lever which is an old Campy ERGO Chorus model

caadman

You can add me to this list also, I run all Campy Chorus on my tandem except for the shimano cassette...


Benjamin

Doggus

I'm not trying to debate - really. I've never run any campy, just wanna know is the campy stuff that much better than shimano? I guess I wanna know why you're switching. I just finished reading a thread on the roadie forum about some guy never buying shimano again. Among the civilized reasons - campy is serviceable whereas shimano is [not | not as] (by default). So if anyone can stick to the original request and give me a real reason...hell I might switch too!!!

p.s. I'm kidding about switching...maybe in another 10 years when I NEED to.

TandemGeek

https://www.thetandemlink.com/stivsergo.html

AndyGrow

Sure thing, I'd be happy to tell ya why.

For starters, and maybe the most important reason, the Campy Ergo levers fit me better, and I simply prefer their shifting method over the Shimano stuff.

The other reason? I just prefer Campy stuff. Perhaps I'm a bit of a Campy snob. Perhaps I'm a bit of a close-minded traditionalist that thinks that any road bikes (especially Italian made ones!) should be required to have Campy components on them. Who knows!!!

One thing I have noticed that is true with the Campy vs. Shimano debate is that, in my experience, once the Campy components break in (der. especially), they operate much smoother than Shimano stuff. Again, that's my experience, others results may vary.

So...I decided to apply my Italian-Campy-Snobbery (self titled!) to my tandem as well.

But most of all...I just prefer the Ergo stuff.

rmac

Does anyone know where to get cables that would work with Campy Ergo levers on a tandem?

masiman

I have always used what has worked best for me. My old bike had a mix of Huret, Campy and Suntour for the primary components. Superbe definitely had the better brake levers in the 70s (my opinion). In the aero days, I chose campy because there was not much difference for me with the others (modolo, weinmann, etc). With brifters though, campy is my choice. I have ridden Shimano and it just does not feel natural. Almost like stepping back to friction shifters. You had to ride them long enough to know how to shift them. There was a small and brief moment of brain power needed to shift friction and I felt the same way on Shimano. Campy needs a little thought but far less. Additionally, there is no moment of hesitation when I do the shift where I might think that I have shifted incorrectly. The Shimano I found confusing and sloppy feeling in the levers. I am sure that more miles on it would give me a better feel for it. But why should I bother if there are shifters at a somewhat similar price that shift better for my style. I do like the campy shape better than the Shimano.

I don't fault anyone for riding what they ride. But my 11 year old Ergo 8 setup is riding just fine and I think finally broken in.

vosyer

Well this had been an interesting thred - I have 7 campy single bikes in my garage most are running racing triples and two shimano tandems. I must admit I am favor campy stuff over shimano, but at the time I bought my tandems I wanted to run a 12/32 or 34 in the back which required shimano, and it's taken alot of stweaking to get everything run right - in between I have almost gone back to 9 speed dura ace bar ends several times, and both bikes have been switched back two cantilever brakes because v-brakes just don't work YThis summer if the tandems don't run right I will be headed to a shop who knows what they are doing for a conversion - which is sonething that hasn't been that easy to find.

tandemCruzer

Cool! Thanks for the info (I have small hands -- Ergos look like they might work a lot better). I see that Santana's offering to let one try STI levers (which they claim have been re-designed for a more comfortable reach), and if you don't like them, you can trade them for Ergo levers instead. I am a little afraid I wouldn't like the Campy lever's narrower gear range. Hope they have that offer still running when I finally have the bucks to pony up for a new steed!

JayB

Found the information on this link interesting but wondered: does what you say about fewer trim points for the front derailleur apply to the new Ultegra 10 speed STIs? Santana and Shimano say that there are now more trim points, but I am not sure how many more and if this makes a difference in practice.

ElRey

Doggus, this is not the thread to be asking if Campy is better. The answer is No, but this group won't let that out of the bag. These are all Campy users.

TandemGeek

Short answer: My article was written in 2003 so, no, I was not evaluating the newer Shimano STI levers. As for the newer levers, they were up to 6 detents on Dura Ace (2 gear & 4 trim) and may have added one more index position. Even at 4 trim positions, any lingering "nits" that bar-end shifter advocates have with the STI's trimming issues should have been eliminated.

A little background: The older Shimano levers could be dialed-in to minimize chain rub but the argument that bar-end shifter advocates always put forward was that "brifters" still couldn't trim a front derailleur (FD) as precisely as a bar-end shifter. The sub-optimum chainline on tandems -- and Santana's 160mm rear-spaced frames in particular -- exacerbated this condition. However, if someone took the time to figure out where they were encountering chain rub, they could easily bias the FD's position with the in line, cable-stop barrel adjuster to put the index points in the right place to eliminate most of the rubbing for most teams (hey, some folks just like riding crossed-up; what are you gonna to do). Unfortunately, some teams would often times still hear a chain rubbing noise in certain gear combinations, e.g., middle with the smallest two or three cogs that they assumed or were told was due to the lack of trimming positions with Shimano's STI lever. If they had talked to the right people or done some investigating they would have discovered that their chains were not rubbing on the FD but, instead, on the larger chainring due to the aforementioned chainline issues with 145mm and 160mm rear spaced tandems. I should note, even with the very trimmable Campy Ergo levers on our 145mm rear spaced tandems, I still can't use my 44t ring in combination with the smallest cog on my cassette without hearing the chain rubbing against the 54t chainring.

Anyway, back to your actual question: Shimano has, as always, continued to improve its products and has added some additional index points (at least when shifting up) on it's left-hand / FD STI lever. I think there have been at least two improvements in this area since the first STI levers were introduced; the aforementioned 4 + perhaps one more. They have also continued to improve the movement and action of their levers and even have a reach adjustment for smaller hands; they are exceptional. Coupled with Santana's little "Far-Out" FD clamp that moves the FD outboard to mitigate some of the chainline off-set issues associated with 160mm rear spaced tandems as applicable, the newer generation STI levers should not have any shifting issues relative to a lack of indexing IF they are set-up and adjusted correctly.

Doggus

I wouldn't mind trying it someday, but I'm not made of frivoulous cash so it'll be a while. I do hate the thumbshifter on campy though. I've tried it on bikes in the trainer at the LBS and I suppose it would just take some getting used to like anything else.

As for Campy vs. Shimano: most of it is ignorant grandstanding, no matter whether we're talking bikes, components, trucks, race cars etc...

ElRey

Doggus, I've had Campy stuff and it is fine. I'll be honest, I prefere DuraAce. Even on my C40HP: I bought the Record ten sp gruppo and sent it back in exchange for DA ten sp. Just me- i didn't like the feel of the levers: it is very nice to look at. I know you guys like the stuff but he did ask. Let's argue about steel vs. carbon!!!!!

JayB

Thanks, Tandem Geek. As with some of your other informative replys, I have stored this away for future reference . . . when summer comes and my stoker starts shouting "trim front". Here is one thing I got from the Santana website regarding new STI shifters (Ultegra triple) which I did not understand: "This new lever not only has an additional trim position to cure annoying chain drag, it bypasses trim stops during downshifts." Downshifts means shifting to a smaller front sprocket. But why would one want different action on upshifts and downshifts?

lhbernhardt

I'm using old Campag Record 8-sp ergo levers and rear hub, no spacing modifications (130mm, had to squeeze the dropouts of the 1980 Kuwahara steel tandem). Using very old Campag Record 8 rear derailleur, and Campag front derailleur, don't know what kind, but made sometime in the 80's, I think. Works fine with the front triple, but we have to really pedal softly to get onto the granny sometimes.

I prefer using the Campag stuff for the following reasons:
1. Shifts are completely intuitive - you want the chain to go inward, you push the lever inward; you want the chain to go outward, you push the lever outward.,
2. Campag front and rear shift on the initial lever movement. Shimano front shifts on the second (return) movement. The delay and inconsistency with the rear really bothers me.
3. You can't trim the Shimano front deraileur, but I understand they've finally fixed this.
4. Campag levers are much easier to take apart and reassemble. In fact, you can remove the shifter components from any Campag lever and use it as a standard lever. You can even replace the levers with the carbon fiber versions, upgrading a Centaur body to look like Record, for example.
5. I personally find the Campag levers, especially the current ones, much more comfortable than Shimano's, but that's just personal preference.
6. I also don't like having that horizontal cable. I often ride with my hands over the levers, with the lever body between my second and third fingers. I'd have a slight delay reaching the brake lever with that horizontal cable in the way.

Admittedly, the Shimano levers have a smoother feel on the shift, and sometimes my 8-speed Campag will hang up (a problem they've fixed on the 9- and 10), but I suspect my Campag stuff will last much longer than Shimano. I used Ultegra 9 for a few months on my single, but the left lever soon stopped working, I don't know why.

- Luis

mrfish

I bought a Trek T2000 which has Uletgra after using Campag on all my road bikes for the last 10 years.

Echoing previous comment I found that the main difference is in the shifter:
1. I can't get a comfortable position for my hand on top of the Shimano lever. Either the lever needs to be so far up that I can't reach the brake on the drops or the bar / lever interface is uncomfortable. This was never a problem with any of my old / new style campag levers
2. I have rebuilt quite a few Ergo levers mostly when the springs fail or the mechanism needs grease or when I wanted to switch from 8 to 9 speeds. I have probably saved the better part of £500 compared with binning the Shimano levers
3. The Shimano rear shifting is very, very impressive in terms of smoothness, but it's no better in terms of function. The Shimano 'shift on release' mechanism is a bit odd. The Campag front is about the same as Shimano, but both systems need careful setup to work at their best.
4. The Campag levers have a brake release on the levers, while the Shimano ones don't. This doesn't matter if you use a complete system as shimano calipers have the cable release on the brake, but if you're using cantilevers (not v-brakes) on a tandem you end up with no quick release, which is a real PITA if you have wider than 28mm tyres and need to remove a wheel.

The rest of the groupset is different, but you get into theoretical benefits / personal opinon quite quickly, e.g. DA hollow cranks and outboard bearings (stiffer, but can sometimes fall apart and looks space-age) versus carbon Campag with standard bearings (lighter, lower rolling resistance, more traditional looks and compatable with all your other cranks).

My next plan for my T2000 is to fit some Chorus ergo levers, a chorus mech and 10 speed chain, then run this on a Simano 10 speed cassette as this works really well on my single bike, and is much cheaper than changing everything.

Haffassa Tempt

Twelve-and-a-half years later I am adding to this thread....

Just acquired a Santana Team with all Campy Record. Someone said it was C Record. What do I know?, I've been a Shimano user much of the last thirty-plus years. I have a Bontrager tandem I had built in the 80's that started out as Suntour and I later switched to Shimano. The reason was because the Shimano was more readily available and performed well on all my other mountain and touring bikes and has never let me down. The bar end shifters were a huge plus in the days before brifters. But back to this new acquisition...

The Santana Team I assume to be around 1991 based on the 8-spd, 130mm rear spacing. It has Campy cantilevers, downtube shifters, and Omega Strada Hardox too. It needed a little minor tuning on it after the purchase, particularly the brake adjustment/toe-in. What I have noticed about the feel is that the shifting is nice and crisp, more mechanical seeming than my Shimano stuff of that era. The brake levers feel a bit small in my large-ish hands, but they still apply a good clamping force on the binders and bring the bike to a quick stop without much protest or flex.

No eyelets nor drilling in the fork/seatstays/brake bridge for fenders or racks. Serial #GG054 off the BB. If anyone knows where I might turn to get more info on this rig I would appreciate it as Santana's website did not have any readily available information/specifications. Not sure yet what I want to do with this one other than get out and ride it fast.

Paul J

Nice find, I'd call Santana and run the serial number by them. The should be able to give you information. If it has a 1" threaded steerer they will probably suggest you replace the fork. The nice thing about the rear spacing you'll have any number of wheel options. :-)

Trsnrtr

We had a 1991 all Campy Santana Noventa and rode the heck out of it. To this day, my wife talks about it glowingly.

Also had a Schwinn Paramount that was Campy but that's going way back.

Haffassa Tempt

Thx Paul J. The threaded steerer looks to fit in a 1 1/4" headset with a 1 1/8" quill stem. I've called and left a message at Santana awhile ago and haven't heard back from them, but will try again. Will be nice to clear up some of the spec/fit stuff.