Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

What's Healthier, Cycling or Moderate Alcohol Use?

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

What's Healthier, Cycling or Moderate Alcohol Use?

Old 04-09-19, 06:03 AM
  #76  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,271
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 689 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 64 Posts
... alcoholism is not a decease, it is a choice that drinkers make, because they like it. Alcoholism runs in my family ...


It's a choice that runs in your family? Not being critical, I'm just having a difficult time reconciling those two statements. 1. not a disease, it's a choice, but 2.) it runs in my family.

Personally, I think there's a major genetic component or predisposition to alcoholism, without which the disease cannot occur in a given person, but a person's choices (to use alcohol or not to use it) determine whether these genes are able to express themselves or not.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Likes For Lemond1985:
Old 04-09-19, 06:17 AM
  #77  
Zaskar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post

It's a choice that runs in your family? Not being critical, I'm just having a difficult time reconciling those two statements. 1. not a disease, it's a choice, but 2.) it runs in my family.

Personally, I think there's a major genetic component or predisposition to alcoholism, without which the disease cannot occur in a given person, but a person's choices (to use alcohol or not to use it) determine whether these genes are able to express themselves or not.
It's only 8:15 and this just made my day. "Choice runs in my family." Yes, sometimes A = B and B = C so C = You just trapped yourself. Damn that's funny. Good catch Lemond1985.
Zaskar is offline  
Old 04-09-19, 10:08 AM
  #78  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,898
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7668 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post

It's a choice that runs in your family? Not being critical, I'm just having a difficult time reconciling those two statements. 1. not a disease, it's a choice, but 2.) it runs in my family.

Personally, I think there's a major genetic component or predisposition to alcoholism, without which the disease cannot occur in a given person, but a person's choices (to use alcohol or not to use it) determine whether these genes are able to express themselves or not.
Alcoholism does tend to run in families doesn't it?
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 04-09-19, 10:59 AM
  #79  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The Mediterranean diet is said to positively correspond with longevity. There again, there is this association with moderate use of alcohol being a part of a healthy lifestyle, --e.g., a 'diet pattern' that includes, the 'Mediterranean way of drinking'...

The relation between alcohol consumption and mortality is a J-shaped curve in most of the many studies published on this topic. The Copenhagen Prospective Population Studies demonstrated in the year 2000 that wine intake may have a beneficial effect on all cause mortality that is additive to that of alcohol. Wine contains various poliphenolic substances which may be beneficial for health and in particular flavonols (such as myricetin and quercetin), catechin and epicatechin, proanthocyanidins, anthocyanins, various phenolic acids and the stilbene resveratrol. In particular, resveratrol seems to play a positive effect on longevity because it increases the expression level of Sirt1, besides its antioxidant, anti-inflammatory and anticarcinogenic properties. Moderate wine drinking is part of the Mediterranean diet, together with abundant and variable plant foods, high consumption of cereals, olive oil as the main (added) fat and a low intake of (red) meat. This healthy diet pattern involves a “Mediterranean way of drinking,” that is a regular, moderate wine consumption mainly with food (up to two glasses a day for men and one glass for women). Moderate wine drinking increases longevity, reduces the risk of cardiovascular diseases and does not appreciably influence the overall risk of cancer.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...98.2012.747484
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-10-19, 01:20 PM
  #80  
Tom L
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I know the two just don't mix for me, either drink and get negative results or eat clean and don't drink and make some progress
with the bike and getting in shape,
just a couple of drinks on the weekend will set me back a week in training. but that may just be me

so why bother, for me if I want to progress and get in any kind of shape I have to stay away from booze completely
not such a bad way to go in my case,
Tom L is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 09:35 AM
  #81  
slowrevs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Internet Benefits: Broadcasting Deceptive Propaganda is Easy

Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
I'd say, 'cycling,' is healthier than drinking -- if, you have to choose -- but, there seems to be a lot more info about the benefits of alcohol than was ever conceded in the past, one of' 'em being... longevity, e.g., https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the...rate-drinking/
The real scientists of the world do not release their findings through outlets like sciencebasedmedicine.org.

Instead, they use peer-reviewed journals, to keep each other on track and honest.

Consuming ethel alcohol puts seven calories per gram into your body with no nutritional benefits at all, but makes you intoxicated... if you are foolish enough to consider that a benefit.

The more real science that is conducted around the globe on the effects of alcohol, the more bad news is discovered.

The alcohol lobby is powerful worldwide, the business is highly profitable. The alcohol industry is doing everything in its power to defuse or confuse the issues of health and alcohol consumption, the same way the tobacco industry did in the 1950;s through the 1990's on the subject of lung cancer and smoking.

If you want the "benefits of wine," drink grape juice. If you want thinner blood, take vitamin E, if you want a healthy heart, ride your bike.

I have seen no science showing that having a beer/cocktail/glass of wine or two, every now and then is harmful to your overall health if you are taking care of it otherwise. All of the science I have seen about regular alcohol intake shows it to be bad for the body.

Don't drink and ride. Same drunk driving laws apply to intoxicated cyclists as to motor vehicle drivers.
slowrevs is offline  
Likes For slowrevs:
Old 04-15-19, 09:56 AM
  #82  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by slowrevs View Post
The real scientists...


.
While true that...

...abstainers should not be encouraged to begin drinking... because of the risk of alcohol abuse

facts are facts, e.g.,

Here 'ya go... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/acer.12585
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 09:57 AM
  #83  
slowrevs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Nonsense, nonsense, nonsense, nonsense

Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
The Mediterranean diet is said to positively correspond with longevity. There again, there is this association with moderate use of alcohol being a part of a healthy lifestyle, --e.g., a 'diet pattern' that includes, the 'Mediterranean way of drinking'...
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...98.2012.747484
The Mediterranean Diet includes the same anti-oxidants that are provided by grape juice. If you take the alcohol out of the diet, you would probably see longevity rates go up even higher.

All of the European countries see alcoholism and its side effects as a major expense in their nationalized health care systems, which is why the amount of legitimate, large scale research into alcohol use and consumption has increased over the past twenty to thirty years.

The U.S. is now facing those same problems.

The choice to responsibly use or irresponsibly abuse alcohol (in all it's many forms) is up to the individual.

The choice to be an alcoholic is also up to the individual.

One does not have to drink to be cool, have friends, impress the boys or the girls, or have a good time.

And one of the best ways to live longer and be healthier is by not drinking on a regular basis, by not drinking in binges, and by not viewing alcohol as a ticket to happiness.

And if you are looking for a way to rationalize your excessive drinking - - there is none.
slowrevs is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 10:06 AM
  #84  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by slowrevs View Post




And if you are looking for a way to rationalize your excessive drinking - - there is none.
The main difference between being judgemental and informed is... openness to facts, e.g.,


In short, moderate drinkers live longer.

References

1. Alcohol and Health
2. Pearl, R. Alcohol and Mortality. In: Starling, E. (ed.) The Action of Alcohol on Man. London: Longmans, Green and Co, 1923, pp. 213-286.
3. Pearl, R. Alcohol and Longevity. NY: Knopf, 1926.
4. Prial, F. Wine Talk. New York Times, December 25, 1991.
5. Highlights of the NIAAA position paper on moderate alcohol consumption. Press release from the journal, Alco Clin Exper Res. July 14, 2004.
6. Rehm, J., et al. Alcohol and all-cause mortality. Contemp Drug Prob. 2001, 28(3), 337-361.
7. Di Castelnuovo, A., et al. Alcohol dosing and total mortality in men and women. Arch Intern Med. 2006, 166, 2437-2445.
8. Holman, C., et al. Meta-analysis of alcohol and all-cause mortality. Med J Austral. 1996, 164(3), 141-145. English, D.R., et al. The Quantification of Drug Caused Morbidity and Mortality in Australia. Canberra, Aust: Human Services and Health, 1995.
9. La Porte, R., et al. Coronary heart disease and total mortality. Recent Devel Alco. 1985, 3, 157-163.
10. Duffy, J. Alcohol Consumption and all-cause mortality. Int J Epid. 1995, 24(1), 100-105.
11. White, I.R. The level of alcohol consumption at which all-cause mortality is least. J Clin Epid. 1999, 52(10), 967-975.
12. Fillmore, K.M., et al. Moderate alcohol use and reduced mortality risk. Addict Res Theory. 2006, 14(2), 101-132.
13. Huang, C., et al. Association between alcohol consumption and risk of cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality in patients with hypertension. Mayo Clin Proceed. 2014, 89(9), 1201-1210.
14. Costanzo, S., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality in patients with cardiovascular disease. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2010;55(13):1339’“1347.
15. Gmel, G., et al. How stable is the risk curve between alcohol and all-cause mortality and what factors influence the shape? Euro J Epid. 2003, 18(7), 631-642.
16. Fuchs, C. S., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality among women. New Eng J Med. 1995, 332(19), 1245-1250.
17. Rehm, J., et al. The effect of smoking on the relationship between alcohol consumption and all-cause mortality in Canadian women. Contemp Drug Prob. 2005, 32(3), 373-386.
18. Rundberg, J., et al. Alcohol use and early mortality in Swedish middle-aged women. Scan J Pub Hlth. 2014, 42(4), 344-348.
19. Freiberg, M.S., et al. Alcohol consumption, hypertension, and total mortality among women. Am J Hyper. 2009, 22, 1212’“1218.
20. Djouss, L., et al. Alcohol consumption and risk of cardiovascular disease and death in women. Circ. 2009;120(3):237’“244.
21. Behrens, G., et al. The association between alcohol consumption and mortality. Euro J Epid. 2011, 26(2), 81-90.
22. Yuan, J-M., et al. Follow up study of moderate alcohol intake and mortality among middle aged men in Shanghai, China. Brit Med J. 1997, 314, 18-23.
23. Doll, R., and Peto, R. Mortality in relation to consumption of alcohol: 13 years’ observations on male British doctors. Brit Med J. 1994, 309, 911-918.
24. Boffetta, P., and Garefinkel, L. Alcohol drinking among men enrolled in an American Cancer Society prospective study. Epid. 1990, 1(5), 42-48.
25. Gaziano, J.M. et al., Light-to-moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in the Physicians’ Health Study enrollment cohort. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000, 35(1), 96-105.
26. Farchi, G., et al. Alcohol and survival in the Italian rural cohorts of the Seven Countries Study. Int J Epid. 2000, 29, 667-671.
27. de Groot, L.C. and Zock, P.L. Moderate alcohol intake and mortality. Nutrit Rev. 1998, 56(1, pt.1), 25-26.
28. Kono, S., et al. Alcohol and mortality: a cohort study of male Japanese physicians. Int J Epid. 1986, 15(4), 527-532.
29. Shaper, A.G., et al. Alcohol and mortality in British men. Drinkers live longer. Lancet. 1988, 2(8623), 1267-1273.
30. de Labry, L.O., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality in an American male population. J Stud Alco. 1992, 53(1), 25-32.
31. Brenner, H., et al. The association between alcohol consumption and all-cause mortality in a cohort of male employees in the German construction industry. Int J Epid. 1997, 26(1), 85-91.
32. Marmot, M.G., et al. Alcohol and mortality. Lancet. 1981, 1(8220, Pt.1), 580-583.
33. Hart, C.L., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality from all causes, coronary heart disease, and stroke. Brit Med J. 1999, 318 doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/bmj.318.7200.1725.
34. Tsugane, S., et al. Alcohol consumption and all-cause and cancer mortality among middle-aged Japanese men. Am J Epid. 1999, 150(11), 1201-1207.
35.. Kovela, S.L., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality in aging or aged Finnish men. J Clinical Epid. 1989, 32(1), 61-68.
36 Carnelli, D., et al. World War II-veteran male twins who are discordant for alcohol consumption: 24-year mortality. Am J Pub Hlth. 1995, 85(1), 99-101.
37. Goldberg, R.J., et al. A prospective study of the health effects of alcohol consumption in middle-aged and elderly men. Circ. 1994, 89(2), 651-659.
38. Blackwelder, W.C., et al. Alcohol and mortality. Am J Med, 1980, 66(2), 164-169.
39. Renaud, S.C., et al. Alcohol and mortality in middle-aged men from eastern France. Epid. 1998, 9(2), 184-188.
40. Howie, E.K., et al. Alcohol consumption and risk of all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality in men. J Aging. 2011, 805062. DOI: 10,4061/2011/8050062.
41. Streppel, M.T., et al. Long-term wine consumption, cardiovascular mortality and life expectancy. J Epid Comm Hlth. 2009, 63(7), 534-540.
42. Romelsjo, A. and Leifman, A. Association between alcohol consumption and mortality, myocardial infarction, and stroke in 25 year follow up of 49,618 young Swedish men. Brit Med J. 1999, 319(7213), 821-822.
43. Camargo, C. A., et al. Prospective study of moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in US male physicians. Arch Intern Med. 1997, 157, 79-85.
44. Thun, M., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality among middle-aged and elderly U.S. adults. New Eng J Med. 1997, 337(34), 1705-1714.
45. Klatsky, A., et al. Alcohol and mortality. Ann Intern Med. 1981, 95(2), 139-145.
46. Maskarinec, G., et al. Alcohol intake, body weight, and mortality in a multiethnic prospective cohort. Epid. 1998, 9(6), 654-661.
47. Maraldi, C., et al. Impact of inflammation on the relationship among alcohol consumption, mortality, and cardiac events. Arch Intern Med. 2006, 166(14), 1490-1497.
48. McCaul, K., et al. Alcohol use and mortality in older men and women. Drinkers live longer. Addict. 2010. On-line prior to publication: doi:10.1111/j.1360-0443.2010.02972.x
49. Lee, S.J. et al. Functional limitations, socioeconomic status, and all-cause mortality in moderate alcohol drinkers. J Am Gerontol Soc. 2009, 57(6), 995-962.
50. Pedersen, J., et al. The combined influence of leisure-time physical activity and weekly alcohol intake on fatal ischaemic heart disease and all-cause mortality. Euro Heart J. 2008; DOI:10.1093/eurheartj/ehm574.
51. McCallum, J., et al. The Dubbo Study of the Health of the Elderly 1988-2002. Australian Health Policy Instititute. 2003.
52. Plunk, A., et al. Alcohol consumption, heavy drinking, and mortality. Alco Clin Exper Res. 2014, 38(2), 471-478.
53. Klatsky, A., et al. Risk of cardiovascular mortality in alcohol drinkers, ex-drinkers and nondrinkers. Am J Cardiol. 1990, 66(17), 1237-1242.
54. Holahan, C., et al. Late-life alcohol consumption and 20-year mortality. Alco Clin Exper Res., 2010, 34(11), 1961-1971.
55. Scherr, P., et al. Light to moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in the elderly. J Am Geriat Soc. 1992, 40(7), 651-7.
56. Holahan, C., et al. Wine consumption and 20-year mortality among late-life moderate drinkers. J Stud Alco Drugs. 2012, 73(1), 80’“88.
57. Gronbaek, M., et al. Alcohol and mortality. Age Ageing. 1998, 27, 739-744.
58. Gronbaek, M., et al. Influence of sex, age, body mass index, and smoking on alcohol intake and mortality. Brit Med J. 1994, 308(6924), 302-306.
59. Gronbaek, M., et al. Mortality associated with moderate intakes of wine, beer, or spirits. Brit Med J. 1995, 310(6988), 1165-1169.
60. Keil, U., et al. The relation of alcohol intake to coronary heart disease and all-cause mortality in a beer-drinking population. Epid. 1997, 8(2), 150-156.
61. Gargiulo, G., et al. Moderate alcohol consumption predicts long-term mortality in elderly subjects with chronic heart failure. J Nutrit Hlth Aging. 2013, 17(5), 480-485.
62. Simons, L., et al. Alcohol intake and survival in the elderly. Austral New Zea J Med. 1996, 26(5), 662-670.
63 Cullen, K., et al. Alcohol and Mortality in Busselton, Western Australia. Am J Epid. 19.93, 137, 242-248.
64. Johansen, D., et al. Generalized additive models applied to analysis of the relation between amount and type of alcohol and all-cause mortality. Euro J Epid. 2005, 20(1), 29-36.
65. Sun, W., et al. Moderate alcohol use, health status, and mortality in a prospective Chinese elderly cohort. Ann Epid. 2009;19(6):396’“403.
66 Gordon, T., and Kannel, W.B. Drinking and mortality. Am J Epid. 1984, 120(1), 97-107.
57. Serdula, M., et al. Alcohol intake and subsequent mortality. J Stud Alco. 1995, 56(2), 233-239.
68. Camacho, T., et al. Alcohol consumption and mortality in Alameda County. J Chronic Dis. 1987, 40(3), 229-236.
69. Kerr, W., et al. Racial and ethnic differences in all-cause mortality risk according to alcohol consumption patterns in the National Alcohol Surveys. Am J Epid. 2011, 174(7), 769-778.
70. Britton, A. and Marmot, M. Different measures of alcohol consumption and risk of coronary heart disease and all-cause mortality. Addict. 2004, 99(1), 109-116.
71. Lee, S., et al. Functional limitations, socioeconomic status, and all-cause mortality in moderate alcohol drinkers. J Am Geriat Soc. 2009, 57, 955-962.
72. Mertens, J.R., et al. Alcohol consumption, life context, and coping predict mortality among late-middle-aged drinkers and former drinkers. Alc Clin Exper Res. 1996, 20(2), 313-319.
73. Klatsky, A., et al. Wine, liquor, beer, and mortality. Am J Epid., 2003, 158(6),585-95
74. Rehm, J. and Sempos, C. Alcohol consumption and all-cause mortality. Drinkers live longer. Addict. 1995, 90(4), 471-480.
75. Deev, A., et al. Association of alcohol consumption to morality in middle-aged U.S. and Russian men and women. Ann Epid. 1998, 8(3), 147-153.
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 10:11 AM
  #85  
Rides4Beer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: SC
Posts: 370

Bikes: Giant Revolt Advanced | Fuji Transonic

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Alcoholism does tend to run in families doesn't it?
Not just alcoholism, there is a strong genetic component to addiction in general. You'll find that families who have a lot of alcoholism will also have people showing addictive tendencies in other areas. I would venture to guess that it presents itself more often as alcoholism just because it's legal and easily accessible. Drugs and hookers take a little more effort and expense. I've struggled with alcohol (shocking, I know, given my screen name lol), and there are a lot of alcholics/addicts in my family. I've gotten the alcohol under control, but can easily recognize my addictive/obsessive tendencies in other areas, even if they're healthier pursuits such as running and cycling.
Rides4Beer is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 10:14 AM
  #86  
caloso
Packfodding 3
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 37,965

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1791 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Not just alcoholism, there is a strong genetic component to addiction in general. You'll find that families who have a lot of alcoholism will also have people showing addictive tendencies in other areas. I would venture to guess that it presents itself more often as alcoholism just because it's legal and easily accessible. Drugs and hookers take a little more effort and expense. I've struggled with alcohol (shocking, I know, given my screen name lol), and there are a lot of alcholics/addicts in my family. I've gotten the alcohol under control, but can easily recognize my addictive/obsessive tendencies in other areas, even if they're healthier pursuits such as running and cycling.
You have perfectly described my family. I have 19 first cousins on my dad's side, several of us are in recovery, several others ought to be. And quite a few of us are frankly a bit fanatical about fitness and health: there's the AT through-hiker; the open-water swimming champion, several IM triathletes, and me the masters bike racer.

Last edited by caloso; 04-15-19 at 01:50 PM.
caloso is online now  
Likes For caloso:
Old 04-15-19, 10:43 AM
  #87  
slowrevs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Facts are facts and opinions are opinions

Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
facts are facts, e.g.,
Here 'ya go... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/acer.12585
The article at the end of this link is a "Commentary," an opinion piece, not a scientific study. The last thing I would consider an opinion piece on Alcoholism to be strong on is facts.

The journal it appears in, ALCOHOLISM: Clinical and Experimental Research, does not appear to be peer-reviewed in the field of study according to the Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoho...ental_Research, and was founded in 1977.

Interesting that you would respond with a non-peer reviewed journal link on a subject apparently near and dear to your heart.

Are you shilling?
slowrevs is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 10:52 AM
  #88  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by slowrevs View Post
The article at the end of this link is a "Commentary," an opinion piece, not a scientific study. The last thing I would consider an opinion piece on Alcoholism to be strong on is facts.

The journal it appears in, ALCOHOLISM: Clinical and Experimental Research, does not appear to be peer-reviewed in the field of study according to the Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoho...ental_Research, and was founded in 1977.

Interesting that you would respond with a non-peer reviewed journal link on a subject apparently near and dear to your heart.

Are you shilling?
Nope... the detection/prevention of substance abuse or mental illness is a serious matter.
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 11:06 AM
  #89  
slowrevs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
A Big List does not make it so...

Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
The main difference between being judgemental and informed is... openness to facts, e.g.,
I am hardly being judgemental. I do believe that putting false information out in public as if it were "FACTS" needs to be rebutted at every turn.

Your posts are putting forth a proposition that Moderate Alcohol Use is Healthy.

Nothing could be further from the Truth.

But your statement is left in a vacuum.

You have not defined Moderate.

And are you saying that Moderate Drinking is Healthier than not drinking at all?

Nope. You compare it to riding a bicycle. Apples to oranges.

I can whip up a laundry list of "scientific studies" that suit my point of view if I seek out those published by the counter-press.

The counter-press is journals claiming legitimacy, but really existing as outlets for those interested in muddying the waters of reality and truth, to protect special interests. And there is no shortage of middling scientists accepting grants from special interests to conduct SI devised studies supporting their positions.

Unfortunately, I think you are pushing the wrong wheelbarrow uphill.
slowrevs is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 11:19 AM
  #90  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The 'longevity' finding is an example of a, 'Black Swan,' phenomena:

Abstract

The Black Swan Theory was described by Nassim Nicholas Taleb in his book “The Black Swan”. This theory refers to “high-impact, hard-to-predict, and rare events beyond the realm of normal expectations”. According to Taleb’s criteria, a Black Swan Event is a surprise, it has a major impact and after the fact, the event is rationalized by hindsight, as if it had been expected. For most of human history centenarians were a rare and unpredictable phenomenon. The improvements of the social-environmental conditions, of medical care, and the quality of life caused a general improvement of the health status of the population and a consequent reduction of the overall morbidity and mortality, resulting in an overall increase of life expectancy. The study of centenarians and supercentenarians had the objective to consider this black swan and to evaluate the health, welfare, social and economic consequences of this phenomenon.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3499197/
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 11:45 AM
  #91  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
My 2¢ as far as unscientific moralizing goes-- just my opinion.... my routine... (something I do or, don't do)... I don't drink alcohol before noon (unless it's some sort of unusual thing like breakfast with others and having a bloody Mary or a champagne brunch); and, I don't drink alcohol at least 3 hours before going to bed. So, out of a 24-hour day, the bar is only open for me for about 6 hours a day and personally, I don't believe in getting to, e.g., 0.08 BAC.
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 11:54 AM
  #92  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,898
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7668 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by slowrevs View Post
The real scientists of the world do not release their findings through outlets like sciencebasedmedicine.org.

Instead, they use peer-reviewed journals, to keep each other on track and honest.
Next you're going to tell me aliens didn't build the pyramids.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 02:16 PM
  #93  
slowrevs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Okay!

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Next you're going to tell me aliens didn't build the pyramids.



Last edited by slowrevs; 04-15-19 at 02:24 PM. Reason: additional thought on the subject
slowrevs is offline  
Old 04-17-19, 09:24 PM
  #94  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Livestrong on diabetes and Bloody Marys...


A drink a day keeps diabetes away? Surprisingly, it can help. A 2005 report published in Diabetes Care found that moderate amounts of alcohol—up to a drink a day for women, up to two drinks a day for men—reduces risk of type 2 diabetes by up to 30 percent.

HOW IT WORKS: Alcohol increases levels of a hormone that improves insulin sensitivity. In other words, it makes it easier for your body to process glucose and use it as energy. This helps reduce the amount of sugar in the bloodstream and ultimately reduces risk for developing diabetes.

DRINK THIS: Bloody Mary. You’ll be completely satisfied by just one serving and the antioxidant lycopene in tomato juice offers a heart-healthy bonus.








...or, if you prefer tequila over vodka... a Bloody Maria. Tip: when looking through the mix options, look for horseradish in the 'ingredients.'
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-17-19, 10:38 PM
  #95  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18,898
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7668 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 68 Posts
Exercise soap improves your sensitivity to insulin. I doubt alcohol would change it much for people who already ride a lot.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 04-18-19, 04:26 AM
  #96  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 51,388

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2848 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Livestrong on diabetes and Bloody Marys...




...or, if you prefer tequila over vodka... a Bloody Maria. Tip: when looking through the mix options, look for horseradish in the 'ingredients.'

You really want to justify the drinking, don't you.
Machka is offline  
Old 04-18-19, 06:25 AM
  #97  
Jim from Boston
Senior Member
 
Jim from Boston's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,628
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 19 Posts
What's Healthier, Cycling or Moderate Alcohol Use?"
Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
I'd say, 'cycling,' is healthier than drinking -- if, you have to choose -- but, there seems to be a lot more info about the benefits of alcohol than was ever conceded in the past, one of'm being... longevity, e.g.,

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-health-benefits-of-moderate-drinking/

Alcohol consumption is not without risk but you don't have to 'Google' the Mayo Clinic to learn that riding a bike isn't a risk-free activity either.
Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
"What's Healthier, Cycling or Moderate Alcohol Use?"

That's actually one of the more stupid things I've ever seen proposed.
Originally Posted by rayooo View Post
Lots of Cycling and a little drinking... works for me,
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Are you looking for justification to keep drinking?...
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
You really want to justify the drinking, don't you.
Very perceptive, @Machka.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-18-19 at 06:28 AM.
Jim from Boston is offline  
Likes For Jim from Boston:
Old 04-18-19, 07:19 AM
  #98  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
It's legal and moderate drinkers apparently even live longer (perhaps because heart disease is a major cause of death) so... what's to, justify, especially if also living healthier is the latest finding?


Consuming alcoholic beverages on a daily or near-daily basis was linked to a cognitively healthy and longer life in older adults in a study by led researchers at the University of California San Diego. Moderate to heavy (but not excessive) drinking was defined as up to three daily alcoholic beverages for women and for men age 65 or older, and up to four for men under age 65. The study, titled “Alcohol Intake and Cognitively Healthy Longevity in Community-Dwelling Adults: The Rancho Bernardo Study,”is the first "to examine the association of the amount and frequency of alcohol consumption with cognitively healthy longevity versus being cognitively impaired in later life or dying before age 85," its authors report. It was published in the Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease.

McBTC is offline  
Old 04-18-19, 07:31 AM
  #99  
McBTC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,747

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1488 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The above study referred to above is behind a paywall but, the abstract about CHL (cognitively healthy longevity), is interesting in as much as it addressed frequency (such as daily) as well as the amount that may be considered, moderate...


Relative to nondrinkers, moderate and heavy drinkers (up to 3 drinks/day for women and for men 65 years and older, up to 4 drinks/day for men under 65 years) had significantly higher adjusted odds of survival to age 85 without cognitive impairment (p’s < 0.05). Near-daily drinkers had 2-3 fold higher adjusted odds of CHL versus living to at least age 85 with cognitive impairment (odds ratio (OR) = 2.06; 95% confidence interval (CI): 1.21, 3.49) or death before 85 (OR = 3.24; 95% CI: 1.92, 5.46). Although excessive drinking has negative health consequences, these results suggest that regular, moderate drinking may play a role in cognitively healthy longevity.

McBTC is offline  
Old 04-18-19, 07:38 AM
  #100  
TakingMyTime
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Alamitos, Calif.
Posts: 1,258

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 5200 & 7700

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
I have to say that I've never head of a BA (Bicycle Anonymous) meeting. Just sayin'
TakingMyTime is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.