How in the hell is this true?
09-24-18, 12:18 AM
#1
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How in the hell is this true?
I live in the most bike friendly state in the US of A. For one overwhelming reason.
What state do I live in? Here’s a hint...it might be the last one you ever thought possible.
Here’s another hint. This state has had really progressive bike laws on the books for the last 36 years! REALLY progressive laws. In a state where “progressive” is a swear word.
Since I was two years old, this state has had bike policies, by law, that no other state in the entire US of A has ever attempted.
Some US cities are trying to copy those laws now. Studies have proven that these laws decrease cyclist vs car incidents and also speed up traffic flow by a large margin.
So, where do I live?
What state do I live in?
Can you guess it?
Here is the downside. I live in one of the least progressive states in the US (politically), with a culture that hates cyclists on the road, but boasts the best bike policy imaginable. How many people understand the bike policies here? Zero. They have been in place for 36 years, but not one motorist knows that. I still get folks yelling, “learn the laws” out of their car windows.
But...
They are actually wrong. 36 years wrong.
Where do I live?
What state do I live in? Here’s a hint...it might be the last one you ever thought possible.
Here’s another hint. This state has had really progressive bike laws on the books for the last 36 years! REALLY progressive laws. In a state where “progressive” is a swear word.
Since I was two years old, this state has had bike policies, by law, that no other state in the entire US of A has ever attempted.
Some US cities are trying to copy those laws now. Studies have proven that these laws decrease cyclist vs car incidents and also speed up traffic flow by a large margin.
So, where do I live?
What state do I live in?
Can you guess it?
Here is the downside. I live in one of the least progressive states in the US (politically), with a culture that hates cyclists on the road, but boasts the best bike policy imaginable. How many people understand the bike policies here? Zero. They have been in place for 36 years, but not one motorist knows that. I still get folks yelling, “learn the laws” out of their car windows.
But...
They are actually wrong. 36 years wrong.
Where do I live?
09-24-18, 01:00 AM
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09-24-18, 01:11 AM
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Already one person describing this as an exaggeration
it’s not.
One whole state in the US of A has a policy, by law, that has proven to decrease bicycle vs car incidents and increase traffic flow.
There is is no exaggeration here.
As a a guy who commutes about 200 miles per month in this state, I have to say that bike laws everywhere else in the other 49 need to catch up!
These laws just make sense, whether or not the sorrounding poplulace of drivers understand them.
One whole state in the US of A has a policy, by law, that has proven to decrease bicycle vs car incidents and increase traffic flow.
There is is no exaggeration here.
As a a guy who commutes about 200 miles per month in this state, I have to say that bike laws everywhere else in the other 49 need to catch up!
These laws just make sense, whether or not the sorrounding poplulace of drivers understand them.
09-24-18, 01:14 AM
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I've typed Idaho stop needs to go Nationwide at least a dozen times.
09-24-18, 01:15 AM
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09-24-18, 01:17 AM
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09-24-18, 01:38 AM
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Idaho stop laws.
They need to exist everywhere. They really do.
I come to a clear, four way stop. Other cars approach as well. I’m going to be the first person to stop fully.
So...I yield and go.
That means the other cars that stop just seconds after me don’t wait for me to fully stop, unclip, put a foot down, and then start back up again through the intersection because it is my right of way.
They save time as do I.
I come to a stoplight and want to take a left. The stoplight sensors won’t trip for me on a bicycle. Not enough weight for a weight sensor. Not enough metal for a magnetic sensor. So I stop and go if it is clear. Should I wait there for a light I can’t trip? No. How does that make sense? I would have to pull up into the intersection and wave cars up into the sensor behind me in order to proceed.
Cyclists aren’t doing that in other places even when they understand the lights and the laws. They do it illegally understanding that they can’t trip sensors. It’s stupidity to sit at the front of a line at a light that won’t change for you.
Somehow, some way, the very backwards state of Idaho understood that in the 80’s!!!
EVERY SINGLE THING about this law increases safety for a cyclist and produces much better traffic flow. Trust me, I ride here everyday and wonder why in the hell this isn’t the policy everywhere else!?!!
I come to a clear, four way stop. Other cars approach as well. I’m going to be the first person to stop fully.
So...I yield and go.
That means the other cars that stop just seconds after me don’t wait for me to fully stop, unclip, put a foot down, and then start back up again through the intersection because it is my right of way.
They save time as do I.
I come to a stoplight and want to take a left. The stoplight sensors won’t trip for me on a bicycle. Not enough weight for a weight sensor. Not enough metal for a magnetic sensor. So I stop and go if it is clear. Should I wait there for a light I can’t trip? No. How does that make sense? I would have to pull up into the intersection and wave cars up into the sensor behind me in order to proceed.
Cyclists aren’t doing that in other places even when they understand the lights and the laws. They do it illegally understanding that they can’t trip sensors. It’s stupidity to sit at the front of a line at a light that won’t change for you.
Somehow, some way, the very backwards state of Idaho understood that in the 80’s!!!
EVERY SINGLE THING about this law increases safety for a cyclist and produces much better traffic flow. Trust me, I ride here everyday and wonder why in the hell this isn’t the policy everywhere else!?!!
09-24-18, 02:45 AM
#13
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I was going to guess Idaho.
The reason for the paradox is because the Idaho Stop is inherently libertarian in nature, recognizing the rights of others as equal to our own, and acknowledging personal responsibility for the consequences of our actions. When that philosophy is respected and observed consistently, we don't need artificial constructs such as signs or laws to impede our travel when there is no reason to stop -- no competing traffic. And we respect others who arrived first at the intersection and allow them to proceed first rather than behaving like bullies and barging ahead because we have a bigger or faster vehicle or money and influence to buy our way out of trouble.
Most of the US has become increasingly entrapped in a life philosophy that distorts personal rights into a fetish while rejecting personal responsibility for the consequences of our choices and actions. The attitude trickles down from the top and bubbles up from the depths of our own swamps. Basically, "Gimme mine, screw you. It's your fault if you got hurt by anything I did. You should have a bigger, faster, stronger vehicle. You should have acquired the wealth, power and influence to skew things your way."
The Idaho Stop is great when we're lucky enough to encounter kindred folks, whatever means of conveyance they choose. I don't mind if drivers cruise carefully through stop signs as long as they're observing it as intended -- with equal respect and regard for the rights and safety of others.
The problems, invariably, are due to the reckless indifference of drivers who indulge in selfish stuff like texting while driving, and the passive-aggressive drivers who could accommodate other drivers who signal turns and lane changes, pedestrians who try to cross lawfully at crosswalks, etc., but instead choose to press every situation into an unnecessary confrontation by refusing to lift a bit of pressure off the accelerator, or applying a little pressure to the brake, or changing lanes when there was plenty of time and space to do so. And that's not even counting the outright hostile and aggressive drivers who are deliberately trying to hurt someone. It's mostly the heedless, reckless, indifferent and passive-aggressive folks who create most of the problems I see in traffic.
The reason for the paradox is because the Idaho Stop is inherently libertarian in nature, recognizing the rights of others as equal to our own, and acknowledging personal responsibility for the consequences of our actions. When that philosophy is respected and observed consistently, we don't need artificial constructs such as signs or laws to impede our travel when there is no reason to stop -- no competing traffic. And we respect others who arrived first at the intersection and allow them to proceed first rather than behaving like bullies and barging ahead because we have a bigger or faster vehicle or money and influence to buy our way out of trouble.
Most of the US has become increasingly entrapped in a life philosophy that distorts personal rights into a fetish while rejecting personal responsibility for the consequences of our choices and actions. The attitude trickles down from the top and bubbles up from the depths of our own swamps. Basically, "Gimme mine, screw you. It's your fault if you got hurt by anything I did. You should have a bigger, faster, stronger vehicle. You should have acquired the wealth, power and influence to skew things your way."
The Idaho Stop is great when we're lucky enough to encounter kindred folks, whatever means of conveyance they choose. I don't mind if drivers cruise carefully through stop signs as long as they're observing it as intended -- with equal respect and regard for the rights and safety of others.
The problems, invariably, are due to the reckless indifference of drivers who indulge in selfish stuff like texting while driving, and the passive-aggressive drivers who could accommodate other drivers who signal turns and lane changes, pedestrians who try to cross lawfully at crosswalks, etc., but instead choose to press every situation into an unnecessary confrontation by refusing to lift a bit of pressure off the accelerator, or applying a little pressure to the brake, or changing lanes when there was plenty of time and space to do so. And that's not even counting the outright hostile and aggressive drivers who are deliberately trying to hurt someone. It's mostly the heedless, reckless, indifferent and passive-aggressive folks who create most of the problems I see in traffic.
09-24-18, 03:47 AM
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we have in-place a button the ped pushes before a light in order to engage the timer for crossing purposes. It overrides the weight/magnetic sensors. Cuts the time delay down, but it is still very lengthy of a wait...
What it really only does is enable the "Walk" light whereas normally it would remain in the "Dont Walk" state no matter the traffic signal IF the ped button has not been pushed.
What it really only does is enable the "Walk" light whereas normally it would remain in the "Dont Walk" state no matter the traffic signal IF the ped button has not been pushed.
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09-24-18, 03:52 AM
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I was going to guess Idaho.
The reason for the paradox is because the Idaho Stop is inherently libertarian in nature, recognizing the rights of others as equal to our own, and acknowledging personal responsibility for the consequences of our actions. When that philosophy is respected and observed consistently, we don't need artificial constructs such as signs or laws to impede our travel when there is no reason to stop -- no competing traffic. And we respect others who arrived first at the intersection and allow them to proceed first rather than behaving like bullies and barging ahead because we have a bigger or faster vehicle or money and influence to buy our way out of trouble.
The reason for the paradox is because the Idaho Stop is inherently libertarian in nature, recognizing the rights of others as equal to our own, and acknowledging personal responsibility for the consequences of our actions. When that philosophy is respected and observed consistently, we don't need artificial constructs such as signs or laws to impede our travel when there is no reason to stop -- no competing traffic. And we respect others who arrived first at the intersection and allow them to proceed first rather than behaving like bullies and barging ahead because we have a bigger or faster vehicle or money and influence to buy our way out of trouble.
less than .09% respect the "walk" when the aforementioned ped button is pushed. I will proceed with caution & witness with my very own eyes of vehicles barely stopping [if at all] to complete their turn... I've also witnessed a vehicle get A-packed by another vehicles b/c the A-packed vehicle abided by the traffic signal awaiting the ped to cross as it was s'posed to do.
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09-24-18, 04:05 AM
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In most cases those types of people are those that cannot themselves stand there own ground & must use other measures/means for acting aggressive or demonstrating such offensiveness. ie: revenge of the nerds.
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09-24-18, 04:08 AM
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I live in the most bike friendly state in the US of A. For one overwhelming reason. This state has had really progressive bike laws on the books for the last 36 years! REALLY progressive laws. In a state where “progressive” is a swear word.
Here is the downside. I live in one of the least progressive states in the US (politically), with a culture that hates cyclists on the road ... How many people understand the bike policies here? Zero. They have been in place for 36 years, but not one motorist knows that. I still get folks yelling, “learn the laws” out of their car windows.
Here is the downside. I live in one of the least progressive states in the US (politically), with a culture that hates cyclists on the road ... How many people understand the bike policies here? Zero. They have been in place for 36 years, but not one motorist knows that. I still get folks yelling, “learn the laws” out of their car windows.
Murder, sexual assault, child abuse, robbery, burglary ... all illegal.So what?
Laws do not govern people. People choose to observe laws or not.
Also ... you do Not live in the "most bike friendly state in the US of A" just because of the Potato-stop law ... because as you note, no one observes it. You would live in such a state if everyone truly preserved and respected the rights of cyclists .. but as you note, no one does. Therefore you live in a state with one progressive cycling law ... but in no way is a it a good state for cyclists ... according to your own description.
Yes, the law is a good law. Many laws are. Laws aren't so much the problem though. i have never been knocked off my bike or forced off the road by a law. No law has ever ridden by too close and yelled some nonsense about "Get on the sidewalk!"
Most people I have met, in the right setting are really good beings--caring and kind and interested in others. It seems though that some, once isolated in a metal box in which they feel like the Commander of All, with no one there to oversee ... act really badly, and they use the car to act out or compensate for all the issues which really need a little psychotherapy.
When you figure out how to improve the general nature of people, so that laws are observed uniformly, let me know.
Until such time, I have to assume that no matter what the law is, the person behind the wheel thinks he or she makes the law as it suites that person's desires at each passing moment.
Last edited by Maelochs; 09-24-18 at 04:20 AM.
09-24-18, 04:30 AM
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Fines that'll eventually revoke the license to drive, followed up with eliminating the offenders ability to use a motorized vehicle by confinement. It'll unfortunately take trial... with there errors to engage each section of event, but the system seems logical for executing...
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09-24-18, 05:09 AM
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I've encountered courteous, law-abiding drivers while touring in ID. Was just there again in June of 2017. Spent a night in Wallace then went back into MT via Dobson, King and Thompson Passes. And unless you have interviewed every motorist, you are, in fact, exaggerating. A lot. Maybe it's you.
09-24-18, 05:11 AM
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If SpudLives drives a car in addition to cycling, then his claim that "not one" single driver knows about these wonderful laws is an exaggeration.
09-24-18, 06:41 AM
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From the title I thought a wheel truing thread, but it's just a "where does a spudtroll live " thread.
09-24-18, 06:49 AM
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I want the two minutes of my my life back that I wasted reading the OP.
09-24-18, 07:06 AM
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If I can see there are no pedestrians, I routinely run lights at 3-way intersections where the breakdown lane literally does not intersect with anything. Occasionally, a driver honks at me out of some sense of fairness, I guess, but I am technically violating the law, so I don't really begrudge them that.
The one that drives me nuts and will launch me into a tirade is someone screaming I need to "get out of the road" because I'm supposedly required to be to the right of a right turn lane (often leading to the on-ramp of an interstate). State law is very clear that I am supposed to go on the road in that circumstance, and common sense should dictate that as well. They really can't wrap their heads around the fact that the state law actually requires drivers to slow for bicyclists in those situations.
My state has moderately bike-friendly statutes and markedly bike-unfriendly drivers, some who will actually go out of their way to harass you.
The one that drives me nuts and will launch me into a tirade is someone screaming I need to "get out of the road" because I'm supposedly required to be to the right of a right turn lane (often leading to the on-ramp of an interstate). State law is very clear that I am supposed to go on the road in that circumstance, and common sense should dictate that as well. They really can't wrap their heads around the fact that the state law actually requires drivers to slow for bicyclists in those situations.
My state has moderately bike-friendly statutes and markedly bike-unfriendly drivers, some who will actually go out of their way to harass you.
09-24-18, 08:33 AM
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