shipwreck

No, a thread a month has me pretty clued in. When I start even one thread celebrating my obsession with cheap and mediocre it will show that you are right about me.

You should have told us this in your big apology thread, the one where you promised never to bring up or disparage the LHT again.

Here's a suggestion. Put together a touring bike that legitimately costs over 5,000 dollars. Use top notch parts of your choice on a custom carbon frame. Have Calfee make you one. Take a tour on it. I guarantee that you will have a quantitatively better time than on a bike like this. At least a 3,000 dollar and possibly more depending on how much over 5,000 you go on the build good time.

Squeezebox

Moderator Please close this thread.
Squeezebox -- OP

mstateglfr 

As has been said a few times now in the various threads you have started where you bemoan a lack of high end bikes...your view is skewed and not grounded in the majority's reality.

You seem to think that just because a road bike or mtb can cost $10000, then a $3000 touring bike isnt high end. Its as absurd now is it was each time you claimed it 3 months ago, 9 months ago, and 11 months ago.

mstateglfr 

You came back after some time away and successfully trolled people for 4 pages. I too would want the thread closed after such a win.

Oh, i know- lets discuss what is and isnt low quality steel in your mext thread! You havent started one like that in over 8 weeks!

BigAura

In general high-end usually means a material-object that is limited in supply. Most of the time it's value is not related to it's function. Gucci handbags & Rolex watches are functionally identical to their mid-range counterparts. Most high-end-things require a special level of care to preserve their value. For those of us who tour on bicycles, a high-end special needs bicycle is only going to detract from the experience of the tour itself. Pricey bicycles that require special attention, special tools, can't be repaired easily, require special theft protection and/or expensive insurance are a negative to the enjoyment & simplicity I seek in the activity which is touring.

gauvins

You may want to consider boating, instead of biking, then. Interesting article here.

It would suggest that bicycles offer limited showing-off potential, and that, as a consequence, the buyers' rationale is utilitarian, if not minimalist.

fietsbob

there you go , a sailboat .. BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand..

Doug64

Your post is sort of ironic. This is one of the yachts you linked to, the Eclipse. It was docked in Copenhagen, Denmark. It is owned by a Russian billionaire. We saw it while I was riding through Copenhagen on my "cheap, low quality steel, inferior" touring bike

Happy Feet

You tend to do that a lot, riding your low quality bike all over the place

All jokes aside, and I know we will never change the OP'S mind, but the topic does open up a Good line of discussion on just how people decide what is quality enough and/or how and why they choose to upgrade.

Some people just assume more expensive is better, as we see here. Others crowd source every decision depending on what others say is quality and some go through a process of purchase/tour/evaluation/adjustment.

I tend to do a mix of the latter. I read about other people's experience, think about my own, and see if I can adapt something to the next trip. In the case of my bike it worked flawlessly so I feel no need to replace it on quality grounds. I'm very intrigued by fast crossings and randoneering of late so I sometimes think of building a tour capable road bike. But I would never go out and drop 10k on one without any practical experience to refer to. Yesterday I emailed a guy about a Columbus steel frame set on CL (cheap) and will see if I get it to rebuild. If I do I will ride it and then evaluate what I like and what I can improve. By next spring/summer I will probably have a very capable fast road touring bike... cheap!

I'm part Scot and cheap is seen as virtue, not a vice.

fietsbob

Condo-Cruise Liner MS "the World"

https://aboardtheworld.com/ BTW , IF you list it as your primary Home , get an offshore Tax Dodge..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_The_World





'/,

bikenh

But some people are just crazy enough to have a bike that they will take on a nice trip that they have to watch every second so someone doesn't steal it from them. I don't lock my bike, because I'm not crazy enough to tour on a bike where I have to lock it up. Instead I go on the trip to enjoy being relaxed and letting the worries of the crap from the other world disappear and the only thing I have to focus on is where is my next turn, not how long before someone is going to walk off with my bike because I couldn't find someplace to lock it up.

Unless your a star studded athlete there is no reason to own a $10K bicycle. The lesser performing bikes will be all you'll need. Yeah, some people jsut enjoy throwing good money after stupid things. That's why someone else made the simple reply, if you're dumb enough to want a $10K bike then someone will be glad to take your money from you. Is the $10K bike going to do anything more for you than a cheaper bike, quite frankly NO. It all comes down to the rider on the bike. Not only how good of shape he/she is in but also in how smart they pack/don't pack.

bikenh

Sometimes it does, sometimes it just means better marketing. You have to learn marketing makes or breaks any product that hits the market. If your marketing campaign is good enough you can raise the price of your product and make a bigger profit even though your quality is junk. Until the bad reviews come out...which may take a long time depending on just how well your junk product holds up, you can continue to get away with selling junk for a massive profit.

Higher price just means you're paying more for the product...especially in this day and age.

Happy Feet

When I was in Hort. college we toured a high tech composting facility where they sold potting soil (the finished product). One auger filling multiple brands of bags from generic yellow to "organic"; priced in garden centers accordingly. That lesson really opened my eyes to marketing and what's behind the label.

gauvins

Indeed.

I personally value reliability/resilience above everything, and, because it would be inconvenient to own several different types of bikes, I've assembled on a platform that will eventually become an expedition bike, i.e. something that you can fly to destination without anxiety about damage, and ride in remote places for extended periods of time without worrying about replacement parts.

I therefore have little interest in things like carbon components, and such.

I have seriously considered Rohloff + carbon drive but couldn't find how the expense could be justified.

We have three bikes, one assembled on a LHT frame and 2 on Trolls. I am of the opinion that most components are at the upper end of their range (XT, Brooks, Thomson, Tubus, Ortlieb, Schwalbe, etc.) with the possible exception of the rims (Mavic 317) that I'll seriously consider upgrading once we aim for more unforgiving places.

I suppose that a productive discussion might start with acknowledging different types of touring and discuss "the ultimate machine" accordingly. Just like there is a place for Unimogs and another for minivans (or Teslas)

DropBarFan

IMO a bit unfair to beat up on LHT/DT, Surly is making the best of the bad situation ie thin touring market with conservative consumers. Production MTBs & road bikes have carbon frames for semi-affordable prices but it's unlikely we will see production carbon tourers in the near future.

LeeG

You are a troll jerking off to ephemera

Yan 

Prior to this thread I have never heard anyone beating up on a LHT. These are solidly designed and built, well priced bikes for a utilitarian market, like Ford Ranger pickups (R.I.P). In 2010 I suffered a bad downhill crash two weeks into a four months tour, that bent my fork legs off to one side. I was riding a Surly Cross Check. I bought a replacement front wheel and re-dished it in a hostel lobby to center in the messed up fork, and completed the rest of my tour. If I had been riding a carbon frame my tour would surely have been significantly disrupted, possibly set back by a month as I waited for a replacement frame to be posted by sea from North America. I was in the middle of nowhere in rural China. I probably would have had to travel back to Shanghai in order to access a modern bike shop's build tools.

Regarding the OP's claim that he doesn't consider $2000 to be mid range. I agree, but not in the way he thinks. $2000 is upper range. Mid range is $1200. Low range is $800 and below. A friend of mine rode Shanghai to Singapore last year on a $150 mountain bike. She took a bit longer than I did but got there eventually just the same. Solo, too. Now, I later spent $3200 on a custom frame, plus about a thousand more on parts; but, that's a custom. Anybody who spends more than $2500 on a stock touring bike is wasting money. At that price range you're looking at the best tubing, Rohloff drivetrain, dynamo lighting, handbuilt wheels, the whole deal. What else do you need? More money than brains; Rolex watches; Louis Vuitton handbags; Leica cameras; you get the idea.

Regarding the OP's claim that he "appreciates" high end bikes: in order to push the bike above $5000 you'd have to be looking at exotic carbon frames and 11 speed electronic shifting. $10000? Man, I have no idea. You'd have to be deep into road cycling weight weenie territory. Full carbon wheels (carbon hubs and spokes too), custom derailleur cages and jockey wheels, full carbon saddle, ceramic bearings, custom seat posts with those ridiculous looking skimpy clamps. what else am I missing? Here's how it works: someone makes a regular carbon stem and sells it for $80. You take the same carbon stem and shave off half the design thickness until it's so skimpy it's only rated for 140lb riders, and is still constantly on the edge of catastrophic failure. Obviously your stem is lighter. You then take this stem and sell it for $400. This is the kind of moronic BS that gets bicycles over the $10k mark. Keep in mind there are people in Africa who make less than $10k over their entire lives.

Now, step back and look at all this in the context of touring bikes. By the time you've spent 10k on a touring bike, there are two possibilities:

A) You've built yourself a weight weenie plastic road bike that is impossible to tour on. You're an idiot.
B) Someone has sold you a regular old touring bike worth a few thousand tops, but conned you into paying $10k with a slapped on brand sticker. You're an idiot.

End of story.

escii_35

So true. My > $3750 to replace touring bike would function great as a grocery getter.

On my last tour I went light and used my commuter. Funny how I didn't worry about leaving it places. Heck, I did not even bring a lock.

Scummer

I don't want to brag, but for ~5k Euros you can get IMHO the highest quality money can buy.
I have a custom built, stainless steel sled with Rohloff, TRP Hylex, Carbon Gates Drive, S&S couplers, system weight of a builders certified 150kg's, Tubus Rack, Schmidt SON with Edelux 2 and BM taillight. Oh, and my newest addition is a Knog Oi Bell for style points. Downside: It is heavy! Upside: It's a tank and tracks perfectly even when only one Ortlieb is loaded with 15lbs of groceries.

Anyway.. this is my dream bike which I had built by a custom frame builder in Bremerhaven, but for someone else it might be the total opposite and a total waste of money (like my dad thinks). I'm happy with the sled and that I was able to afford myself such a nice ride and after a year of daily use it has only let me down once, after I went on a forest trail with it and pinch flatted running over a big stone.

I think high quality is subjective, as my dad e.g. cannot understand how I can spent so much money on a 'simple' bicycle.

So in closing, do you think this is a high end configuration?

indyfabz

I go away for a long weekend and come back to this.

smh

OP: If you want the thread locked you can't simply make a post asking for such since the mods don't read every post. (You know that.) Reporting your post asking for a lock to the mods should do the trick.

****

mstateglfr 

If you are dying for some entertainment, google 'squeezebox, low end, bikeforums'. Or instead of google, Baidu it or Soso it. <---those dont sound as natural when turned into a verb.

Here are a few of many...
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1052665-my-920-a.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...why-steel.html <---- 17 page thread!
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...-prettier.html <----23 page thread!
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...our-bikes.html <---squeeze was a bike mechanic, apparently.

There are just so many gems if you go hunting. Basically, squeeze has declared any bikes under $2k to be 'inferior' and 'low end'. Quotes are because those are words he uses a lot. He has declared the LHT to basically be the worst bike ever created and bemoans a lack of full carbon touring options. He continually blindly declares more expensive components to be better since 'better is better' and more expensive means better.
He is pure entertainment when I cant focus at work(which is often). Luckily, there seems to be a near limitless amount of entertainment for me to consume.

Yan 

Thanks. I pay for a VPN so I can use the real internet in China. I had no idea there was so much controversy surrounding this guy. Seems everyone needs to take a breath and relax. He's entitled to his opinions. If he has the money, who's to say he's not allowed to spend it how he wants?

mstateglfr 

Completely agree that if someone has the money, they can spend it however they want.

Its the constant bashing of equipment everyone else uses and the constant claims of inferiority that irks others since those people actually use the equipment to tour which squeeze...hasnt and doesnt.

Squeeze has admitted he trolls. At this point, his posts are like professional wrestling...just pure entertainment and shame that its even entertaining.

northerntier

You can easily spend 8K or so on a co-motion.

fietsbob

doubt Squeeze box will ever tour anywhere
does like the sound the air passing over his reeds makes ,
others may not even find it musical..