Classtime 

Ok Hank, lets see your Peugeot. Digging your 4X36. Wish I knew that before I just built my touring wheelset 36X3.

Cougrrcj

I've only ridden this bike less than 1000 miles since the build. Wheels never needed truing, probably because I had the spokes properly tensioned before riding them - there were a few that were a bit 'off' out of the box. Why so little riding? Ohio weather sucks - and I lucked into finding my Miyata 710.

Moe Zhoost

I've built a number of wheels up with CR18 rims. They are great quality for the price and over ~20,000 miles have proven their reliability (though I do build with 36 spokes). I've built one set with M13 II rims and like them very much. They definitely have that classic look. My notes say that used an ERD of 609mm (700c rim). I do have a new set of them waiting to be paired with hubs. I will measure the ERD and report back.

Moe Zhoost

OK, I just measured and got 610 mm

67tony 

Well, after entering my data into a variety of spoke calculators, it looks like I need spokes between 296.4 and 297.9 mm. Using the +/- 2mm rule, I'm shopping for 297mm double-butted 14/15/14g spokes, right? (Reminder...my hubs are Shimano 105 5500, and my rims will be 700c Sun M13 II.)

Does that sound like I calculated correctly? It doesn't seem like much dish, with the non-drive side lengths being only .5 - 1.5 mm difference, depending on which calculator was used.

All of which leads me to a few more questions...

1) Is it common to be able to order the same size spokes for an entire wheel set?
2) For the M13 II rims, would I need 12 or 14 mm nipples?
3) Are 13/14/13g spokes too thin for a general purpose build such as this? (early 90's Allez)

Thanks a ton, in advance, for helping me get started on this!

hankamania

I think I have to have 10 posts before I can attach pictures. Luckily, I this is my 10th post.

I didn't lace my wheels 4x, I was just pointing out a rationale for doing them that way.

hankamania

Here's the PX-10. I had repainted it in '87 and used mid-'80s decals. I had it repainted again in '04 to go back to the classic mid '70s decals.

hankamania

A single size is uncommon. I usually need 3 sizes. Many ebay spoke sellers will custom cut as needed. I buy most of my spokes from Lee Kilpatrick, who sells on ebay as Childhood_Dreams. You can also send a request for a quote to LKSPOKE@YAHOO.COM.

While you can fudge size a little, shorter is better than longer. You don't want to bottom out on the threads. If you can get the right sizes, get the right sizes, and round your decimals down.

Either size nipples are fine.

Spoke gauges are like wire or shotgun gauges, the smaller the number, the thicker it is. 13/14/13ga would be overkill. Go 14/15/14 or 14/16/14.

SurferRosa

I've never really worried about this. Danscomp used to include rather long ones with their spokes, and that's what I used. I also always rounded down my length calculations.

hankamania

And how many spokes are you using? I can't double-check lengths without spoke count.

73StellaSX76

I just re-rimmed a set of wheels with Sum m13ii rims. Build went well and they’ve held up straight. They really look the part but I had to wrap cloth on the ceiling hooks that I hang the bike from. The polish on the rim was getting scuffed by the hard rubber coating on the hooks. I like how they are narrower than the CR 18 rims. The brake tracks are not machined but rather a brushed like surfacing, which still works well with the brakes.
One rim replaced a Rigida, the other a Mavic MA 2. I think the erd matches closely on all rims as the spokes transferred over with the nipples hiding the spoke threads all around.

67tony 

32 spokes, 3 cross pattern.
Shimano 105 5500 hubs.
Sun M13 II rims (610 ERD).

The hubs were not on any list that I found, but the measurements are this:
REAR
130: axle length
45: flange diameter
30: nut to flange, non-drive side
47: nut to flange, drive side
FRONT
100: axle length
38: flange diameter
14: lock nut to flange, both sides

I come up with 297 for both sides of the rear, and 299 for the front, but would love to have that double-checked!

THANKS!

Fahrenheit531 

I won't buy CR-18s again. They're ugly straight out of the box and heavyish. I've also never had rims give up more little tiny aluminum splinters to the brake blocks. The brake tracks look 20 years old; they're actually about three. On the other hand, they're strong. And cheap. But next time I'll remind myself that price is sometimes reflective of quality and dig a little deeper.

SurferRosa

That's the o.l.d? What cog cluster are you using? Seems strange the nds spokes aren't longer. Almost sounds like you're using a 5-speed cluster on a modern spaced hub (i.e., no dish).

Sorta difficult without the same hubs (Shimano 105 5500) in front of me.

hankamania

I came up with 296 DS, 297 NDS, and 299 front (not using your hub measurements, but what's on SpoCalc). If you're buying from someone with a spoke thread roller/cutter, then I'd do 3 lengths. It will naturally dish a little easier for you.

67tony 

The cluster is a 9-speed, Shimano CS-HG70-9.

67tony 

Really awesome, Hanka, thanks a ton for the double-check!
I found my rear 105 5500 hub on SpoCalc, but not the front. But, after measuring it myself, I also came up with 299mm for the front wheel. And, after using the exact measurements from SpoCalc on the rear, I also agree with you on your recommendation of 296's (296.5) for the drive side, and 297's (297.6) for the non-drive side.

I've also taken the advice to work with Lee at childhood dreams, for custom length double-butted Sapim 14/15/14 gauge spokes. Custom lengths, nipples included, however many you want, and reasonably priced.

dddd

The problem is that your brake pads are no good. Replace.

Fahrenheit531 

I'll give it a shot.

branko_76 

wow, that was quick

Fahrenheit531 

@dddd knows his stuff, and I actually did set it up with cheap brake pads. So if he's right, easy fix to one of three issues. If he's not, I have new brake pads. Downside: zero.

ThermionicScott 

Get yourself some Kool-Stops! There's only like 3 brands on the C&V approved list.


CR18s are still heavy, though. Lightness wasn't a design goal for that one, durability was.

Fahrenheit531 

I started with Kool-Stops. The cheap pads were a solution to MAFAC Racer banshee effect.

ThermionicScott 

That's a feature, not a bug. Gotta let those iPod zombies know when you're coming in hot!

67tony 

OK, original poster here, reporting back. I'm making progress, with rims and spokes ordered, and even scored a used Bike Hand YC-512N truing stand for $50.

Lee (childhood_dreams on ebay) is indeed great to work with, as indicated by a few people previously. I used his direct e-mail, avoiding the hassles of messaging through the auction site. After much measuring, and many spoke calculator sites, I've ordered 3 slightly different lengths.

Front, 299 mm
Non-drive side, 297 mm
Drive side, 296 mm

Lee recommended a Pillar spoke, which he believes is better than Sapim Race, and only slightly more expensive. His total price was very reasonable, based on my comparisons of other options. Here's the description of the spoke he recommends: Pillar PSR 2017 (butted 2.0/1.7/2.0) made from Swiss T302+ Sandvik stainless wire.

Thanks again for helping me get started on my first wheel build!