Psimet2001 

The great group up at Rukus can replace dropouts.

esarhaddon

Why shouldn't Zwift try to legitimize e-racing. It is different enough to actual bike racing to be its own thing. Also, why shouldn't the UCI be interested in e-sport racing? I do not understand. Do you think that will take resources away from other events?

Sy Reene

Some day, all competitive sports will be able to be played and accessed by athletes who are at home in their living rooms. What's not to like?

rubiksoval

Because you're not actually racing a bike?

rubiksoval

I'm curious how this will work for ball sports.

Sy Reene

Some hints maybe available if you watch a movie like Ready Player One.

rubiksoval

Eh. Let's just jump straight to Surrogate and really go to town.

burnthesheep

It’s still a video game with fitness value. Not something I care for the UCI meddling in.

I have a hard enough time swallowing that they have e-mtb racing. Even if without the motor those folks would whoop my butt.

colnago62

I have a trainer bike that cost me less than $150.00 to put together

esarhaddon

Racing while pedaling a bike on a trainer and directing a bike avatar within a world based on sort of realistic physics seems racing-a-bike-like enough to me for the UCI to be interested in virtual bike racing. It obviously does not have to be a major focus, but if you go with the cynical take that professional road cycling is really just a vehicle for advertising then providing more places sponsors to give money would be good for all bike racing.

Whether Zwift is the best platform for such an endeavor is a different question.

colnago62

At the London six day this year, they had Zwift racing

mstateglfr 

I agree with a lot of this- that zwift does a good job of making a mind numbing activity fun. And agree that its absurd to have someone use zwift numbers as a base for ability on the road.

Totally disagree with your views on why racing is down. Having read your posts and listened to your podcasts for years- its clear to me that you are pretty annoyed and bitter. Not just annoyed and bitter by the industry in general(pretty common to be burned out like this), but also annoyed and bitter at what you see in the sport at the local level. I can only imagine the frustration of dwindling numbers for road rides when you have invested to much time into the support and promotion of cycling.

Your hostility is misdirected here. Sure, I bet there are people who dont race outside because they are 'afraid' of putting themselves out there for critique. But that is just 1 of many reasons. Time required to race outside vs on zwift is significantly different. Cost is less on zwift. Equipment needs are less on zwift. Talent/ability is less on zwift.
All those things create barriers to entry for road riding and zwift makes it easy.
that last one is HUGE- the talent/ability issue. You have referenced riders being yanked off courses for years now. Why would someone waste their time, money, and effort only to be yanked off a course?
Basically, zwift allows many who arent good enough to race in real life, still race.
Zwift is what gravel racing has been to you for the last few years. You've ranted and thrown fits over how gravel races arent real races because they arent UCI sanctioned and/or dont have insurance, blah blah yada. You've instead called the races big group rides where some people are competitive.
That same attitude and view seems to be how you view zwift races.

It's an unfortunate view to take, really. Exclusivity is slowly losing out to experiences and inclusivity, and you are standing on the sideline bemoaning the change.

rubiksoval

If you've never actually raced a bike, then you don't know what you don't know.

Pedaling =/= racing.

rubiksoval

Zwift feeds the delusion of being a good bike rider without actually being good!

mstateglfr 

Well sure that's possible.
Or it allows people who know they couldn't race on roads and perform well, to still compete in some way. Competition isnt inherently bad.

Pretty sure reality is a mix of those with delusion and those with a firm understanding.

atwl77

I think @rubiksoval has a legitimate point of people racing very well on an indoor/online platform, think they're great bike racers and then try to participate in real races and turns out they're crap at bike handling and become a moving hazard for everyone around them. I guess this is also similar to the perception of triathletes being crap at bike handling, but typically less impactful because triathletes do not tend towards mass starts and groups.

But then again, I think that's par for course with any sport that contains multiple disciplines. If you think you're a great road racer doesn't mean you'll be a great gravel racer; if you think you can run and win a marathon doesn't mean you have the top-end power for a 100m sprint, and so on. Different disciplines, different skill sets.

But I think the bigger picture, more so than cycle e-racing, is just that most of the public still hasn't come to accept the whole e-sports thing in general. People still aren't accepting that you can compete with a PlayStation controller, or mouse and keyboard, or bike on a trainer, and call it "e-sport". Until that kind of stigma is lifted, it'll be the same with Zwift and e-racing in general.

DrIsotope

At the same time, I think the overlap of people who actually race bicycles and sometimes also Zwift race is perhaps significant; the number of people who get started Zwift racing and then up and decide to race in the "real world" is somewhere between few and none.

Because people turn to Zwift for the exact reasons that road bicycle racing is fading-- cost, time commitment, physical risk, required skills, etc. Zwifting as an e-sport has some serious advantages-- for it's 2020 UCI-sanctioned racing season, "Parity is a major focus. Men and women will run the same schedules, the same distances, with equal prize money."

LAJ

That says it all. Why try and get good, or better, when all you have to do is say you race.

himespau 

Yeah, but the UCI sees it as a potential new revenue stream related to bicycles and bicycle shaped objects. Somebody is going to regulate it (and take the money for regulating it), why should they let anyone challenge their monopoly even if it's not the same as real racing.

mstateglfr 

This will seem to go against my prior comment in this thread, but it really doesnt- I am one who struggles to accept e-sports. I dont fully view zwift as an e-sport though. A zwift race(that is legitimately run and not hacked or whatever) requires athletic talent, even if its just being able to turn your legs fast and with power.
That, to me, is completely different from e-sports as that term has been known for years. Its a term whose application is different than its title. e-sports in the pre-zwift world were really just video game competitions. Using the word 'sport' to describe gaming competitions was absurd and still is absurd. Its great that people enjoy playing in those competitions and its really great that those people are lucky enough to have a huge following of viewers. But its all just a video game competition. No athleticism or significant physical activity is required- it isnt a sport.
You can call it a stigma, I guess. Its a mislabeling to me and thats why it isnt accepted by more people.

Trakhak

Or, to put it another way, Zwift is more akin to local-level running races, where the majority of participants are delighted to merely finish and a sizable proportion are mostly interested in PRs.

Contrast that with bike racing, where, as we all know, everyone who doesn't win is a loser, and Zwift's sudden and swift (!) adoption by many thousands of riders around the world begins to make a lot of sense.

Dan333SP

As someone that has raced a real bike plenty of times, and has now also started racing a virtual bike, I can tell you that the physical load on my body is exactly the same in a virtual race as it would be outdoors. The skills required are far different, of course, and the element of risk that hangs over every corner and every pack of riders in a real race is completely removed from virtual racing, and no one is denying that. In fact, as a new parent, it's mostly because of the inherent risk and time/financial costs of "real" racing that I find myself Zwifting far more often than riding/racing outdoors. That's the biggest appeal of Zwift for those of us with time constraints.

I ultimately think a few of you guys are ranting against a strawman... I don't really see anyone from the world of Zwift claiming they're great bike racers in real life just because they do well in Zwift. It doesn't take a genius to understand why producing good power indoors has very little correlation with actual success in outdoor bike races, no one is denying that and someone being good at virtual bike racing shouldn't be threatening to those of us who are successful at the real thing. If someone thinks being a great Zwift racer will make them fast in a real race, fine, they can go attempt to prove it in a local Cat 5 crit, but it's no different than any other racing newbie with 0 pack skills showing up and thinking it'll be a walk in the park, the Zwift thing is a red herring.

datlas 

Agree 100%

Plus, it's easier to do a bidon flip while zwifting compared to racing.

Dan333SP

Still haven't figured out the hotkey for a bidon flip, or a cinzano.

mvnsnd

Seems the only person one can cinzano is yourself with a press of this button: