hunterr41

I am in AZ for a week. I was on a short ride using bike lanes as much as possible. Like most other states bike lanes come and go. I happened to spot a police car so I stopped to ask about 3 foot law. Police person said there was no 3 foot law. I looked it up tonight and they don't have 3 ft law, it is 5 foot law, so some education needs to be done.

Ferrarif2002

Maelochs

As far as I know the five-foot law is brand-new and cyclists are fighting it because it contains a provision requiring cyclists to use MUPs if they parallel roads.

Always check A&S for the legal/loony stuff: https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-...-safety-2.html

indyfabz

PA has had a 4' law since 2012. Several years ago the sheriff of a county that borders Philly and is home to a large club didn't even know the law existed. Once he was told about it, his office started a public awareness campaign to educate county residents. The campaign included the printing of hundreds of yellow campaign-type lawn signs. Many were placed along roads that are popular with cyclists.

jon c. 

I wouldn't favor that here. The only folks who pass too close are idiots and the inattentive. A change in the law won't help with that. The vast majority of drivers give ample space when passing. We have a few roads with actual signs indicating "cyclists may use full lane' and those are fine, but I fear 'campaign type' roadside signs could actually instill a negative reaction in drivers.

Lemond1985

We have had a 3 foot law in California a couple of years now. Goes completely unenforced, despite a few signs that went up. Fine for violating the law is $35. Which goes up to $220 if the driver hits someone (ER visits are expensive, don't ya know?). Complete joke, even commercial vehicles like buses buzz bikes with absolute impunity.



My philosophy is, if everyone ignores a law, why even have it? It only makes people contemptuous of every other law, like the really important ones against things like killing and stealing.

maartendc

Most people are not familiar with these laws, I don't think it is really part of the driver's ed curriculum.

In Georgia, people need to leave 3ft to "pass safely", however I find that most people either leave way more than 3ft or way less (idiots).

What are your best practices for safely riding on a shared road? I try to keep to the right as much as possible, so cars can usually pass me safely with 3-5ft to spare (and most do) without needing to go into the oncoming lane on a two lane road.

I hear a lot of people advocating "taking the lane" and stuff like that. I sometimes do that in an urban area with 30 mph speed limits, or when the lane is really narrow, or when I am about to make a left turn. But on most "highways" or "open roads" sounds kind of crazy? Likelihood of getting hit by someone looking down at their phone is higher this way if you ask me.

Lemond1985

Staying right is all you can do, I don't use any more of the road than I absolutely need. That and looking back just before vehicles pass, to confirm they're giving me adequate room (I've had to bail out onto the shoulder a couple of times). Most people are considerate, but some are not. Law has made no difference at all, the people who previously gave me 8 feet, still give me 8 feet of room, and the people that are determined to buzz past within one foot still do that as well.

indyfabz

It gives a cyclist who has been hit an advantage in a civil suit. He/she has a better chance of arguing negligence per se:

“(a) The failure of a person to exercise due care is presumed if: (1) He violated a statute, ordinance, or regulation of a public entity; (2) The violation proximately caused death or injury to person or property; (3) The death or injury resulted from an occurrence of the nature which the statute, ordinance, or regulation was designed to prevent; and (4) The person suffering the death or the injury to his person or property was one of the class of persons for whose protection the statute, ordinance, or regulation was adopted.”

That shifts the burden of proof to the motorist to demonstrate that he/she exercised due care, if the facts permit. (E.g., "I was passing with the required clearance but the cyclist suddenly swerved into the roadway as I was overtaking him.")

But yes, enforcement sucks, and the fines are ridiculously low in some cases. I believe in PA that the fine is $25 for violating the state's 4' law.

P.S. IBTM

JoeTBM 

Being also in Florida, I was curious if there was a minimum safe distance in the laws.... I found this to share, apparently it is a 3-foot law in Florida

Violation of the Three Foot Law ? Florida Bicycle Law

TimothyH

I'm in Cobb County.

In Georgia you are not required to stay as far to the right as possible but as far to the right as practicable.

It isn't practical to ride through pot holes or ride through a turning lane when going straight. You are not required, nor is it safe to squeeze all the way to the right at all times. If the lane is too narrow for cars to pass safely then your spot is in the lane to prevent an unsafe pass.

Sometimes a motorist will barge through and there is nothing you can do. Then it is best to defer and not get killed. High school drivers are the worst. Rooms to Go delivery truck and municipal bus drivers are a close second.

But in general, motorists need to wait their turn until it is safe to pass. Whether they like it or not isn't my concern. My concern is getting home alive. Hand signals help and I believe most motorists appreciate it.


-Tim-

Razorrock

This is what I have noticed. If you hug the edge of the road some cars will squeeze by when oncoming traffic blocks them from moving in to their lane. So I will take the lane when a safe pass is not permitted and move to the side when it is clear. Most people will give you 3 ft.

Now when there is a spay panted line and its marked bike. Cars will pass right beside you. I would much rather ride on an unmarked road than an unprotected bike lane that is full of glass, gravel, & grit with cars passing right beside. With all of that said I am not riding on busy streets or during rush hours.

MoAlpha

Exactly my experience and the difference in room given by drivers, depending on which side of any line—bike lane, fog line, merge line, etc.—you're on is striking, even though the actual, spatial, difference is a matter of inches. It's as though, if you're on the other side of a stripe on the road, you're not really there. I learned long ago never ride to the right of any lane marking unless I'm assured of adequate space on both sides.

Maelochs

I used to live in Orlando FL so I learned the laws. Florida has a "far right as practicable" law and (the best part) a whole list of reasons cyclists can take the lane, including unspecified reasons.)

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The 2018 Florida Statutes Title XXIII MOTOR VEHICLES
Chapter 316 STATE UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL 316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—

(5)(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride in the lane marked for bicycle use or, if no lane is marked for bicycle use, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid any condition or potential conflict, including, but not limited to, a fixed or moving object, parked or moving vehicle, bicycle, pedestrian, animal, surface hazard, turn lane, or substandard-width lane, which makes it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge or within a bicycle lane.

So to avoid anything you can calla condition or a potential conflict, or anything the rider believes makes it unsafe to ride along the right-hand edge. it includes "substandard-width lane," which is defined as "a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane." So in FL bikes can Legally take the lane quite often (bike is over two feet wide, passing zone is three feet, car is six feet, most roads are 14 feet but the outer edge is a foot of garbage .... on anything but pristine pavement you can take the lane if needed---in Your estimation.)

Even Oklahoma has similar wording ….
§47-11-1205
A. Every person operating a bicycle or motorized scooter upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as near as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations::
1. When overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway;
3. When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions and while exercising due care, including but not limited to:
a. fixed or moving objects,
b. parked or moving vehicles,
c. pedestrians or animals,
d. surface hazards, or
e. any time it is unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway; and
4. When riding in the right-turn-only lane.

But also this nut-kick (which luckily can be modified by local laws): E. Wherever a usable path for bicycles or motorized scooters has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle or motorized scooter riders shall use the path and shall not use the roadway if required by local, municipal or county ordinances.

I have never noticed that cars pass more or less closely depending on whether there is a marked bike lane. if you have ... well, glad i don't live in Orlando any more i guess.

cthenn

Exactly right. Nobody cares. I don't understand the point of even having the law. I find it laughable imagining a scenario where police set up some kind of sting to catch drivers who don't pass cyclists by 3' or more. It would never happen, the law is a complete waste of time. Oh, I love those jerseys I sometimes see on riders which is basically a giant sign saying "PASS 3 FEET" and a giant arrow on it.

asgelle

Post #9 explains why it's important pretty well.

fietsbob

pass an ordinance with no money to enforce it .. all to typical..

Maelochs

This is pretty much all that's needed. There is no need to provide more money to enforce it ... as with any other traffic violation, it gets enforced when an officer sees a violation. If it's an issue get cameras, I guess.

fietsbob

OK report the statistics when you find them..

banerjek

Way safer than it sounds.

Drivers are most likely to do whatever the vehicle in front of them did. So if someone cuts you a bunch of space (or not), that's what the vehicles behind do.

I find you get significantly more space if you ride pretty far left. If you notice the lead vehicle behind you slow even slightly, they see you. They naturally drift out, and as they approach you can drift right giving them more space. Drivers like it when you give them space (even though you created it by blocking them), and then the vehicles behind follow -- meaning you've just pushed out people who might not even know you're there. Way better than riding right since they'll tend to push you off the side.

Not all drivers like cyclists or see you. Just watch your mirror for who looks good to work with and you can start at any time. You'll need to repeat the process, the specific dynamics depend on traffic, road conditions, etc. Note that the key to the technique is knowing exactly what's going on behind you and using movement to communicate and optimize outcomes. Simply riding left and expecting everyone to go around you is asking for trouble.

How many feet of clearance you get is not really important. If the drivers see you, you're safe. So if there's oncoming traffic and it's obvious that the cars behind see you and have slowed, a good way to make friends is by squeezing over and motioning them to pass close.

People are creatures of habit meaning they tend to show up in roughly the same places at roughly the same times. It is possible to be very assertive and make friends at the same time -- and doing so makes the ride much easier.

jon c. 

Some years back I read that they were going to do an enforcement action in Gainesville with a cop on a bike with some kind of sensor and a cruiser nearby to cite violators. But I don't know if anything ever came of that.

Maelochs

The cruiser passed the bike too closely and the officer driving was ticketed.

JoeTBM