livedarklions

Lately, I've taken to throwing my bike down in the middle of the road and dancing the Macarena. Never fails to stop traffic.

I-Like-To-Bike

Seems like you agree with what I previously posted - few motorists will have a clue as to what a cyclist is trying to "communicate" when they use arcane (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arcane) bent arm signals to including stop/slow down signals regardless of such signals being "recognized" by the NHSTA.

I also agree with your good advice about the lack of savvy in trying to direct traffic from a bicycle with any kind of hand signal.

Milton Keynes

By pulling out in front of another car that has the right of way and signaling a left turn?

I don't think you even understand the situation. I didn't have the stop sign, they did. I was making a left turn, they were on my right stopped at the stop sign ready to go straight through the intersection as soon as I, the traffic with the right of way, was clear. I signaled and slowed down, ready to make a left turn, They saw me pointing left and pulled out in front of me, going through the intersection. The same thing happened recently, only the directions were reversed. Car on my left stopped at a stop sign, I had no stop sign and ROW, making a right turn. I signaled my right turn and the car began to go. Only on the second occasion they realized I was continuing my turn and they stopped rather than pull out in front of me.


Why would a motorist stopped at a stop sign start to go through the intersection when they didn't have the right of way? The only thing I can think of is that they misinterpreted my hand signal as telling them to go ahead.

If you're looking to start a fight, I'm not biting. What I expect from motorists is to understand bicycle hand signals (it's in the driving code and on the driving test for my state) and not assume that when I signal a turn with my hand that I'm waving them through. If I want them to go ahead of me at an intersection such as a 4-way stop, I will be stopped and I will make a waving motion with my hand.

livedarklions

I don't bother with bent arm signals at all as I'm sure the small chance they will actually be recognized and heeded is outweighed by the small degree of control I lose by taking my hand off of the handlebars--I'd much rather have the ability to make a split-second adjustment for an unpredictable driver action. Also, "stop" and "right turn" are usually signals that are of complete irrelevance to drivers in most situations since I'm not habitually in the traffic lane.

work4bike

I've had to use the stop signal a few times when I see cars all of a sudden slamming on their brakes and I see a line of them in my mirror coming up fast. However, I don't use the typical bent arm, hand down signal, rather I put my hand down, but my arm is more straight and I "pump" my hand and if it's safe I'll swerve into the lane and back out to really catch their attention. Never had a problem using that signal.

I-Like-To-Bike

If I suspected that the motorists following me to the rear in close proximity needed arcane hand signals to be made aware of my presence and the traffic situation, I would find another place to ride.

I can only guess what cyclists who depend on such hand signals do in hours of darkness.

Leisesturm

While reading that, I have to admit, it made me think of that cartoon trope where the hero(es) are being hotly pursued by something terrible, but safety is just within reach at their front door. But they discover that they have NO KEY! So they dash around to the back of the house, let themselves in through a window, grab a set of keys and dash around to the front of the house to let themselves in with the key.

Leisesturm

Interesting. You "expect" this and that from total strangers encased in multi-ton motor vehicles that can kill or maim you. I expect nothing in such an encounter. I do expect more from a more personal interaction such as we have been having. It shouldn't be so hard to get through to you. Or LDL, or any of a half dozen other frequent posters to this forum that I have determined over time to have at least a baseline IQ and commensurate reading comprehension. You clearly failed in your o.p. to present the facts in such a way that the thread didn't crash almost from go. That's not on me.

njkayaker

Hmm. Maybe, they saw it as meaning "after you".

It's a useless signal in that situation (from a car or a bicycle).

The car at the stop sign has to wait for you whatever you do (go straight or turn). So, the signal doesn't help them or you.

I wouldn't signal to such a car. That avoids any issue of misinterpretation.

I've seen riders hold up their hand (to indicate stop). That seems less ambiguous.

In any case, you are expecting too much from the signal (which might be making things worse).

You experience indicates that such an expectation doesn't make you safer.

Milton Keynes

I expect that if they have a driver's license they should have learned about bicycle hand signals. If they have taken any sort of driver's education in the past this is one thing they should have learned.


You failing to comprehend what I wrote is not my fault. Because I think I spelled it out quite clearly:
You're the one who assumed the car was behind me waiting for me to go through an intersection.

Milton Keynes

I'm not going to signal my turn in that situation again.

atbman

No, Milton Keynes is in the UK.

Leisesturm

Milton Keynes the town is in the UK, Milton Keynes the userid ... LDL may be correct.

Edit: On second thought you might be right after all. I seem to recall our Milton going on at some length about what a cycling utopia MK (the town) was in a post once ....

Milton Keynes

No, I am in the U.S.

njkayaker

The odd thing is that where you are isn't relevant to the situation you are talking about.

I have no idea why people are going on about it.

njkayaker

Why are you going on about this? It doesn't matter.

Leisesturm

I beg your pardon, I was answering a question someone asked. Incorrectly, as it turns out. Why are you muzzling people? One of them being the very person that started the thread. This forum is like a drug addiction. Oh so bad for you but you just can't stop reaching for the needle. Well I can't. I'm weak. I admit it. #iamweak

livedarklions

There was a guy, MikeyMK from the city who used to post, but he stopped posting last January.

livedarklions

No, Who's on first. What's on second.

flangehead

Most motorists have headlights on at night.

Signals are courtesy, nothing more.

Actual trajectory of a vehicle is only constrained by Mr. Newton’s laws which are vigorously enforced in all jurisdictions.

Milton Keynes

OK, I really am sorry for starting this thread. I just wanted to vent my frustration over local drivers not understanding standard bicycle hand signals and creating a dangerous situation, and it's devolved into a mess.

livedarklions

C'mon, who doesn't love a good old fashioned "Where does the OP live?" thread?

Actually, if it were possible to have a civil discussion on A&S, our philosophies of hand signals is actually a good topic. Unfortunately, the usual suspects around here cannot discuss anything without belittling and invective.

I'll take a stab at it anyway--

I signal only when there is a chance that my move is going to cross another vehicle's line of travel. In a case when I'm certain there's no other vehicle around, I will not bother, but if I'm not certain, I will always err on the side of signalling to someone who isn't there. I generally do not bother with right-hand turn signals unless there's a lane to my right or a weird intersection (there's a lot of those 5 way intersections in Boston, for example), and I definitely don't signal stops as I am pretty sure most people don't have a clue what that signal means, and it looks too much like I'm signalling a left turn.

These techniques work very well for me, and I'm not interested in debating them. I have no interest in convincing others to use them, and I have no interest in people trying to convince me to change them. I like to read other people's approaches to the same problems I face, but as always, I assume people know a lot more about their own riding habits and their own environment than I do, and a lot less about my riding habits and environment than I do.

Iride01 

NP...... most of us probably suspected that and then quickly forgot. But hey, look at all the conversation you stirred up. Nothing wrong with that even though some of us have to get rid of some tension and get a little testy.

Juan Foote

Appealing to motorists about anything cycle related, and courtesy is a lost cause. The major percentage of motorists think you should be riding in the ditch or on the sidewalk.

I was hanging out with a group of people that I have been friends with for almost 20 years, involved in another activity we all share. There was a group laughing passing around a phone, "true", "yeah" etc.
The meme they were sharing showed two cyclists pointing left saying "let's ride out there like a couple of *******s"
The whole conversation changed as we discussed how "they" would willingly endanger MY life, someone they have known for 20 years, to pass me on a double yellow in a blind corner just to save a few seconds. Not ONE SINGLE PERSON cared at all. Not ONE.
If your friends don't care you think these strangers out here do?

mr_bill

I signal when I am about to change lanes, when I am about to turn, and when I am slowing or stopping.

This is true when I'm behind the wheel or behind the handlebars.

However:

There are many times where I need both hands on my handlebar, as anyone who rides in our two seasons, pothole season and street repair season, knows too well. (Not to mention cobblestone streets and trolley tracks.) I signal when approaching a turn or approaching a stop sign or stop light. But once I signal, my hands are back on my handlebars.

One exception - at long lights, I'll often signal a turn once more as the pedestrian countdown clock nears red hand, or on the cross yellow light, especially if there are a lot of new arrivals on the scene. But again, once I signal, my hands are back on my handlebars.

NOW, just because I signal does that mean I have the right of way?

NO. I NEVER HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY. NOBODY DOES. YOU CAN ONLY YIELD THE RIGHT OF WAY.

I still proceed only when it is safe to do so. Maybe this is hard for lots of people to understand, but in MAhole land, one way to a short and unhealthy life is to ASSUME someone is going to yield.

Finally, I expect people to figure out the straight arm signals, that's not rocket science.

I'm under no illusions about the slow/stop signal. But I continue to signal slowing and stops because that's what I am supposed to do, and SOME people do get it.

Long live the arcaniacs.

-mr. bill