Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Replacing spokes vs purchasing new wheel?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Replacing spokes vs purchasing new wheel?

Old 08-10-20, 09:29 PM
  #1  
seebol
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Replacing spokes vs purchasing new wheel?

I have a tandem bike that I'm planning to take on a vacation in late August. This past weekend I noticed that two adjacent gear-side spokes in the rear wheel are broken, and the wheel is severely out of true. I'm fairly handy with bikes, but have not replaced spokes before. Will I be able to true the wheel, or is it possible that once warped enough the wheel will never get back to being a smooth ride? If I need to order a replacement wheel, I'd rather do that early since those take a while to ship.

Thanks!
seebol is offline  
Old 08-10-20, 09:47 PM
  #2  
zacster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 7,702

Bikes: Kuota Kredo/Chorus, Trek 7000 commuter, Trek 8000 MTB and a few others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 456 Times in 358 Posts
Tandem wheels are prone to spoke breakage because of all the additional weight so I'd think you could just replace the spokes. The real question is whether you are comfortable truing wheels. It isn't hard to do but maybe take it to a shop if you aren't sure, especially since you are taking it on vacation. I guess it depends on the intent though, are you riding it for your vacation or just taking it with you for an occasional ride?
zacster is online now  
Old 08-10-20, 10:37 PM
  #3  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909

Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times in 282 Posts
If you're going to replace spokes, definitely get more than you need and bring the extras along. When two are broken there's a fairly high chance the others are getting up in their fatigue life, too.

When I had a spoke break on an unusual wheel that needs hard to source extra long ones, I bought four at an inflated price and gradually fed them into the wheel as replacements over the next year, but when I installed the last one I figured enough was enough and found an economical place to get a full wheel's worth. Broke one more spoke within sight of the end of a Sunday ride, and my box of replacements arrived Monday afternoon, tore the wheel down that week and completely rebuilt it.

Replace the nipples, too - a few on that wheel were damaged to the point where truing adjustment was impossible.

Granted a used rim is going to be harder to build up true than a new one; I'd say the wheel I rebuilt runs better than it did before, but it's an extremely heavy and wide double wall with what are clearly slightly mis-cut faces at the joint, so it's never going to be perfect. But a brake caliper has enough float to work on it, so...
UniChris is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 06:43 AM
  #4  
aggiegrads
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood, OR
Posts: 1,279
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 336 Post(s)
Liked 309 Times in 180 Posts
Originally Posted by UniChris
If you're going to replace spokes, definitely get more than you need and bring the extras along. When two are broken there's a fairly high chance the others are getting up in their fatigue life, too.

When I had a spoke break on an unusual wheel that needs hard to source extra long ones, I bought four at an inflated price and gradually fed them into the wheel as replacements over the next year, but when I installed the last one I figured enough was enough and found an economical place to get a full wheel's worth. Broke one more spoke within sight of the end of a Sunday ride, and my box of replacements arrived Monday afternoon, tore the wheel down that week and completely rebuilt it.

Replace the nipples, too - a few on that wheel were damaged to the point where truing adjustment was impossible.

Granted a used rim is going to be harder to build up true than a new one; I'd say the wheel I rebuilt runs better than it did before, but it's an extremely heavy and wide double wall with what are clearly slightly mis-cut faces at the joint, so it's never going to be perfect. But a brake caliper has enough float to work on it, so...
I had a great Uni come with an absolutely awful wheel. Fortunately I realized it was bad before I put on too may miles or did any hard riding and took it to a skilled wheel builder to tension. Several spokes were slack and the tension was all over the place.

What surprised me was that it was a Kris Holm Unicycle, which I would have assumed was had quality components but was very poorly built.
aggiegrads is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 06:58 AM
  #5  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,847

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2577 Post(s)
Liked 1,900 Times in 1,192 Posts
Good call on getting extra spokes.

OP, only you can make the DIY or shop call. There's a lot of threads here, and resources across the web, on how to replace spokes, tension and true the wheel.

For the shop decision, you may need several new tools (possibly including a chain whip, freehub tool, spoke wrench, wheel truing stand, and tensiometer, the latter two being optional). And as noted, you'll have to learn how to replace the spokes and get the wheel true, tensioned, and stress-relieved. Finally, it's on the shop to get the right spokes and nipples.

For DIY, you won't have to worry about finding a shop that'll work you in before you leave on vacation. If you do it right, you'll know it's done right (which, sadly, you only hope is the case going to a shop with an unknown wheel builder). Once you've got the tools and the know-how, you'll be able to fix more broken spokes while on your vacation.

Quick and dirty, mark the two spokes as you replace them. Get the wheel as true as you can without touching any other nipple with your spoke wrench. Grab parallel spokes all around the wheel and squeeze the bejeezus out of them on both sides (stress-relief, also helps with spoke windup). Check the trueness one more time, again only touching those two new spoke nipples. Reassemble the wheel (cassette, rim tape, tube and tire) and go for a fun ride or ten.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 07:04 AM
  #6  
mack_turtle
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,397

Bikes: Surly Karate Monkey, Twin Six Standard Rando

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 273 Posts
I would take a chance and try to replace the spokes. check the relative tension of the spokes one you get the rim centered and true. if the new spokes (or any of the spokes) need to be screwed down under considerably more tension than the other spokes, the rim is bent and you're just going to keep breaking spokes. the spokes on each side of the wheel should have about the same tension as the other spokes on the same side. if a few need extra tension, those spokes are going to break again eventually. time to get physical with the rim or just replace it.
mack_turtle is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 07:28 AM
  #7  
ClydeClydeson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times in 518 Posts
The wheel being out-of-true will almost definitely solve itself after the two spokes are replaced. Even one missing spoke will result in a wheel extremely out of true.

However, after multiple spoke breakages with no extraordinary cause (like getting gouged by a chain slipping off the top of the cassette), I think all the spokes should be replaced, especially if you are planning a trip or other adventure that a failed wheel could ruin.

The spokes in a wheel work like a chain, and if one link (spoke) has failed due to (presumably) fatigue, all other links have seen the same number of stress cycles and may also fail soon. It is likely the drive side spokes need replacing more urgently than the NDS.

Also, for a heavily loaded wheel like on a tandem, you should make sure the spokes are as close to maximum allowable tension as possible. I believe rim manufacturers give a recommended tension. Under-tensioned spokes are the main reason for fatigue and breakage.

After the first few rides on a newly spoked wheel, the spokes should be checked and re-tensioned if necessary. The drop in spoke tension on a new wheel is enough to put the wheel from 'good' to 'severely undertensioned'. A wheel built by a skilled wheelbuilder will generally not lose as much tension, but it's still good to check.
ClydeClydeson is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 08:14 AM
  #8  
mack_turtle
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,397

Bikes: Surly Karate Monkey, Twin Six Standard Rando

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 273 Posts
I've been down this road: if the rim is bent, no amount of rebuilding with new spokes will help. it's worth spending a few bucks to replace just a few spokes, but if the wheel is very old and does not true up with even tension, it's done.
mack_turtle is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 08:15 AM
  #9  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,361 Times in 2,034 Posts
Define taking on vacation. A week puttering around a campsite/park/tourist village slowly or riding 50 miles a day.
dedhed is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 08:33 AM
  #10  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
"2 adjacent gear side rear spokes". You didn't mention what kind of tandem or how many spokes. You almost surely have some kind of hub or rim issue going on. I wouldn't replace just the two broken spokes unless I had a tandem experienced wheel builder look at it.

Tandem rear wheels, by the way are often built quite a lot differently than are found on single bikes. 145 mm or even 160 mm rear dropout spacing is common. Replacing the rim and spokes is much more likely to be cost effective than replacing the entire wheel as is common for a single bike.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 08:41 AM
  #11  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,660
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 171 Times in 138 Posts
You may find that you need to loosen all of the spokes to be able to true the wheel. This isn't always the case, but it happens.
How many miles on the wheel and how many spokes in it? A tandem should have at least 36 double butted spokes.
davidad is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 05:28 PM
  #12  
seebol
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
"2 adjacent gear side rear spokes". You didn't mention what kind of tandem or how many spokes. You almost surely have some kind of hub or rim issue going on. I wouldn't replace just the two broken spokes unless I had a tandem experienced wheel builder look at it.

Tandem rear wheels, by the way are often built quite a lot differently than are found on single bikes. 145 mm or even 160 mm rear dropout spacing is common. Replacing the rim and spokes is much more likely to be cost effective than replacing the entire wheel as is common for a single bike.
Thanks for pointing out that finding a replacement wheel may not be as simple as I thought!

Details: It's a 36 spoke wheel with a 26"x1.5" slick tire currently installed on it. It was part of a cheap tandem bike with twist grip shifters that has probably scene ~200 miles, 99% on paved roads. There is a slight wobble of the thru axle when I hold the wheel and spin the axle. Measuring the exterior width of the frame dropouts, it is 145 mm. It's hard to measure the length of the thru axle (until the tools to remove the freewheel arrive), but it looks around 170 mm.

Current approach: I will try replacing the spokes and bringing spare spokes on the vacation, which will have one ride of 25 mi (and the other days just cruising around town). However, in case I find I am unable to true the wheel adequately when the tools arrive, I'd like to be able to quickly order a replacement wheel.

Can anyone point me to a replacement wheel? Nashbar's Statru Alloy rear wheel only has a 135mm threaded axle. EBay's Wheel Master 5-6-7-speed freewheel 26 x 1.5 silver rear wheel seems like it could work --can anyone verify? (Sorry, my account doesn't seem to allow posting links )
seebol is offline  
Old 08-11-20, 05:36 PM
  #13  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by seebol
Thanks for pointing out that finding a replacement wheel may not be as simple as I thought!

Details: It's a 36 spoke wheel with a 26"x1.5" slick tire currently installed on it. It was part of a cheap tandem bike with twist grip shifters that has probably scene ~200 miles, 99% on paved roads. There is a slight wobble of the thru axle when I hold the wheel and spin the axle. Measuring the exterior width of the frame dropouts, it is 145 mm. It's hard to measure the length of the thru axle (until the tools to remove the freewheel arrive), but it looks around 170 mm.

Current approach: I will try replacing the spokes and bringing spare spokes on the vacation, which will have one ride of 25 mi (and the other days just cruising around town). However, in case I find I am unable to true the wheel adequately when the tools arrive, I'd like to be able to quickly order a replacement wheel.

Can anyone point me to a replacement wheel? Nashbar's Statru Alloy rear wheel only has a 135mm threaded axle. EBay's Wheel Master 5-6-7-speed freewheel 26 x 1.5 silver rear wheel seems like it could work --can anyone verify? (Sorry, my account doesn't seem to allow posting links )
Does this bike have a 7-speed freewheel? If it does (my bet) the cheapest repair is probably going to involve replacing the bent or broken axle. If you brought it to me, I'd probably try to talk you into replacing the hub with a 36 hole free hub. Then I'd lace it with DT Alpine triple butted spokes.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.